anyone here ever patent an idea?

[Cars&Classic]

Anyone here ever try to patten somthing?

Does it take a large budget?
Is it hard to fight a large company that uses an idea after you patten it?
is it better to try to sell the idea?
should you build a proto type first before doing the patten?

and if the part you make incorporates or (re-purposees) and existing part but uses it in a completely different way and for a different application is that an infringment on thier pattent? so do you redesign even that poortion of your part.

 

[allinon72]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

*patent

The only thing I hear about the US Patent Office is that it's a complete mess.

 

[dandan111]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

Like a casting? Depends how big,I worked at a foundry (its been a while). We would have done a small job but it would cost you. Not sure how much $ but we would have made a few hundred of whatever the part was. No bigger than about 2ft by 2ft in our mold machine.
Aluminum only.

 

[Cars&Classic]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

Like a casting? Depends how big,I worked at a foundry (its been a while). We would have done a small job but it would cost you. Not sure how much $ but we would have made a few hundred of whatever the part was. No bigger than about 2ft by 2ft in our mold machine.
Aluminum only.

no this part would be small 8-10 " long x 1/2" thick x 1/2" wide

would need to cast one part then maching it, then fit it with hardware. or take somthing that is on the market for another use. cut up 2 or three weld tham back together in a different config. much easyer but using somthing already made but for a different use.

 

[Falcon67]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

read up
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee100512.htm

In answer to #2 - yes, it's all on you to pursue the infringement. Patent attorneys are not cheap.

 

[Zengineer]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

Does it take a large budget?

About $10k per patent.

Is it hard to fight a large company that uses an idea after you patten it?

Not hard so much as expensive. Count on a lot of lawyer time, that you would be paying for out of your pocket.

is it better to try to sell the idea?

It's one option. Too many variables to comment.

should you build a proto type first before doing the patten?

Yes.

and if the part you make incorporates or (re-purposees) and existing part but uses it in a completely different way and for a different application is that an infringment on thier pattent? so do you redesign even that poortion of your part.

Patent infringement *****, you don't want to go there. Basically if you have been found infringing on someone else s patent, they can retroactively be awarded revenue from sales of your product. This can be up to 100% of the revenue, depending on the situation.

 

[rsanter]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

A patent is based on several things.
The strength of the patent meaning how it was written up so as to protect from legal variations.
And you ability to defend that patent meaning money.
Having a patent without the intent or ability to manufacture leaves you in a weak position.
There are people ( engineers and attorneys) that you can talk to for a second opinion on your idea and of it is worth pursuing. I have two patents so if you want to call and talk to me about some basic info on the process just drop me a line.
Getting a patent should not be all that expensive as you can do a lot of the research yourself which is where you need to start and search and cross search yourself before you go to the next step.
In my process (and a coupls of friends) we have found that often thebidea we have is already patented even though it has never gone into production for one reason or another.
A decent patent attorney will cost $5000 to write it up and submit it in order to protect your idea. You can do it yourself but you will be less protected

Bob

 

[Kevin54]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

About $10k per patent.

It's not that much. We've had a few guys at work patent some tooling they made on a personal basis. I know that none of them would shell out $10G's if their life depended on it.

 

[smalltruck]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

Some good advise here so far. Re-purposing anything can be sticky because it depends on how much of their patent holders technology you use. That technology then depends on how their original patent was written and how many side patents they have.

Side patents are done so that somebody can't get to close to an idea without crossing a patent line somewhere. Meaning pay somebody money. My understanding is that this is often done in high tech stuff and that the patents are for a device that was never built, or even work. Some sleazy types will also do a "side patent" under the "patent applied for" heading to be first in line in case somebody does cross a line.

In short a patent attorney can be worth the price you pay.

 

[nehog]

Anyone here ever try to patten somthing?

Does it take a large budget?
Is it hard to fight a large company that uses an idea after you patten it?
is it better to try to sell the idea?
should you build a proto type first before doing the patten?

and if the part you make incorporates or (re-purposees) and existing part but uses it in a completely different way and for a different application is that an infringment on thier pattent? so do you redesign even that poortion of your part.

1. I have. Patents are part of my law and ethics course as well.
2. Yes, 10K is about right. Sure you can self-help and reduce that figure, but it is not easy.
3. Very hard, and expensive to fight infringement. Odds of success are slight, at best. Cost of success is incredible.
4. Hard to sell ideas to a company unless you have a proven product/device that is selling.
5. You must build a prototype to ensure it works. Just an idea on paper probably won't cut it.
6 Yes, that is probably infringement. They'll likely slap you down hard and end up owning your patent.
7. Redesigning may work and probably won't.

NB: been there, done that. We made some money but it was hard, and about two years (full time) of our lives. In the end we spent about 250K flogging the patent, and in the final analysis the project was a failure. Our venture capital dried up suddenly and we closed up shop. It only cost me my home (not a bankruptcy) and that was not as bad as it seems, we moved into a new home (brand new) with a reasonable mortgage. My partner and I both started our own companies and were both successful in the end. We're still very close friends today.

It's not that much. We've had a few guys at work patent some tooling they made on a personal basis. I know that none of them would shell out $10G's if their life depended on it.

Not sure how they did that then. Then again the PTO is all screwed up now and perhaps they approve anything today? Or maybe your friends knew exactly what they were doing (perhaps got experience from prior work on the job?) However, a patent is hard to get, and expensive.

Also, a patent requires an annual fee be paid! It is not a one time payment, you pay for the patent, then after a period of time (several years) there is an annual payment that must be made. Don't make that payment and the invention becomes public domain. When the patent expires the invention becomes public domain--patents do not renew.

There are other easier ways to protect your work. Look into both copyrights and trade secrets as an option. Also study NDAs and how to use them. Unless you are going to make and sell the device/invention yourself, I strongly recommend you have an attorney help you with your IP rights.

My company didn't bother with patents on our products. We have other ways (market power mostly) to protect our business. We've had several companies start up and try to compete with us, all have failed, mostly because it is hard to compete with a company who is the established leader in the field and one (probably the) largest makers of these products in the world.

Crystal ball: I see changes coming down the pike for the PTO and patents in general. Things are right at the crux--the courts are very unhappy with the current situation, and a lot of people and organizations are also not pleased with how things have gone. It is possible that patents may be substantially overhauled in the next 4 to 8 years, perhaps even sooner. (Personally: I sure hope so, it's a mess right now!)

 

[work tools]

I got a patent back in the day. I manufactured the product the patent protected, made it in my own boutique manufacturing facility and made some money from that product but most of the money I made was on related products that were not patented but were successful because I was first to market, established my brand, and made the best product for the money. I shipped about 30% of it offshore. (foregive me for not disclosing the products) IMO if you can't manufacture and sell the product yourself prospects for financial success are bleak. Getting a big company to pay easy money to a garage inventor is about about as common as winning the lottery. In the mean time most patents end up as dead ends because the hard part is not the inventing but all the details of bringing a product to market, persuading people they want to own it and making some money in the process.

 

[PCO6]

Re: anyone here ever patten an idea?

It's not that much. We've had a few guys at work patent some tooling they made on a personal basis. I know that none of them would shell out $10G's if their life depended on it.

Zengineer lives in BC so he quoted Canadian prices. My guess is that the higher price includes having the instructions written in French as well.

 

[campguy]

I have applied for a USA and Canadian patent 16 months ago. Its cost me about $12k total so far and that includes a prototype. I have done extensive testing to beat up my product and try to find its failure modes. Because of that I am now on the second prototype and at that point I filed. Its a lot of personal time, lots of calling, meeting with people, talking to end users (to try to pull market as well as push market) and at the end of the day I have realized that its a great idea but without owning the patent rights its worth nothing. Once (hopefully) we are granted the patent, then it is tangible and will be able to either sell it or obtain financing to manufacture. My lawyer is 310 an hour.
I was under the impression that you cannot patent an idea. You have to have a prototype and extensive testing to back up your claim. I would imagine that the stronger the data/prototype is the easier it would make the process. I am also under the impression that it takes 18 to 24 months to be able to receive or be denied the application. I don't know if the USA patent house is a mess or not... Geez I hope not, I want to move forward!
An example of how a large company took a great idea and tried to make it their own is the delay wipers story... google or wikipedia Robert Kearns to see how he made out.

 

[Builder302]

Cost is dependent on several factors, prior patent search time is one of them. 10k is about right. My company did spend 20k once for a water pump design that was similar to several others. We went a couple revisions with patent office to clearly show difference, IMO this is where the money is eaten up.

 

[Shocker]

My former neighbor is an artist who patented the whirly gig thing. Copper twist design with a small crystal/marble/etc at the top and they spin.

You can buy them just about anywhere knocked off by Chinese companies by the millions. He has fought and fought and never gets anywhere.

It is hard to beat the dishonest.

 

[ptschram]

In '91, I spent a coupla grand traveling to DC to research an idea I had.

It took me about two days to realize that Hewlett-Packard, Perkin-Elmer and Varian argued patent infringement on anything that even remotely resembled their products, performed similar functions or even went into a machine they'd even thought of building.


At the time, I realized that my time would be better spent making widgets, selling them, improving manufacturing processes and advertising.

With the advent of the internet, I'm even more convinced of this path.

I make a hand-ful of products and sell them via my website, eBay, and Land Rover related websites.

Curiously enough the only IP infringement problems I've had were related to company name and logo on my website.

 

[Aberdale]

I have around 15 patents that were awarded on behalf by my employer. (Basically I get my name on the patent, they get the rights).

My experience after 30 years in the design business is this: Patents are expensive. Protecting them can be even more expensive. Much of my professional career was trying to develop new products around existing patents. It's not that hard.

Here's the deal. If you develop a new patent for a totally new product that no one has ever considered before, then you can develop a utility patent to cover this new product. A utility patent is very powerful and covers a lot of territory. If you are developing a new product that is an extension of an existing patent, then you can apply for a design patent (that differentiates your product from one that already exists), but design patents aren't all that powerful.

I've spent many years developing new products that get around existing design patents (mostly in the medical field). So from that standpoint, it's not that difficult, and minimizes the value of a design patent.

Do a quick patent search on-line. You will quickly learn whether someone else has already come up with (and patented) your idea. Then you can decide whether to invest in your idea.

 

[LSU]

I had a patent on a product I developed. My plan was to patent the product and then sell the patent. This worked out for me.

Before I'd do it again, I'd think about the cost (the cost on mine was about $12,500.00) versus the recovery.

Because I have a business the patent development costs was a tax deduction so for me, it was a cost of doing business.

I later sold my patent (for a profit) so I never had to worry about patent infringement.

If you've got a great idea, patent it. There are a lot of patents on products that people never use. Do an online patent search next time you get bored and get prepared to smile.

If you've got some "great" idea, my best advice is patent it and then sell it if you can.

Unless you plan on having your business built around your patent, the easiest and quickest way to make money is to patent it and sell it.

Keep in mind that some other countries do not give a US Patent Office too much credit (go look at Harbor Freight if you don't believe me). You might patent your idea and then find it next week at the Harbor Freight in your town.

Fighting patent infringement is an expensive proposition.

Other than saying “I hold a patent (which I’ll admit was fun for a while) you’ve got to study the cost of this venture versus the reward.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[SeattleKent]

You can do all the work yourself. You can write up the patent application and file it with the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office). Then all you are spending is time and filing fees (several hundred dollars). Writing a patent application is not all that hard.

Another approach is to write up the application and hire a patent attorney to review it before filing. Have him/her focus on the claims. If you get those wrong the patent is really easy to work around.

A very good resource is "Patent It Yourself" from Nolo press. Goes for $31.49 on Amazon. The book explains the whole patent procedure well. Even if you go the "hire attorny to do the whole thing" route, the book is a good read so you know what you are talking about and what the attorney is saying.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

Anyone here ever try to patten somthing?

Does it take a large budget?
Is it hard to fight a large company that uses an idea after you patten it?
is it better to try to sell the idea?
should you build a proto type first before doing the patten?

and if the part you make incorporates or (re-purposees) and existing part but uses it in a completely different way and for a different application is that an infringment on thier pattent? so do you redesign even that poortion of your part.

Hard to answer your questions just on the basis of what you said above. If you like, feel free to PM me with some specifics. I am a patent attorney.

 

[Playwme]

If its a good idea that you think will really take off, patent the part and then sell the idea and the patent rights to a company that will manufacture the part and has the money required to protect the patent. A mates dad had a school friend who came with the idea of the little plastic chairs that go under reinforcing mesh when laying concrete slabs. He made his prototype, patented the idea , and then sold it all for $7million. He's never had to stuff around with attorneys and trying to protect his patent.
If its something the Chinese are likely to use then trying to protect patents becomes a bit of a nightmare. Cash in and let someone else deal with the worry.

 

[Danglerb]

I've done 3, granted 2, know people with literally dozens.

Patents are like bullets, and lawyers are like guns. If the other guys lawyers are big enough they don't need any bullets to smack you around.

I'm not sure that a patent is of any net benefit to a private individual. The trick as I see it is to license your patent to somebody big enough to defend it for you, but that isn't going to just screw you.

 

[Titanium Frost]

This is a superb thread on a manufacturing forum about the Newbould Indexer. It explains some of the patenting processes the inventor undertook himself (ie, no lawyer, so it can be done). Just a wonderful story...well worth the time to read it all.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/ot-mother-invention-159279/

Our company recently patented a product and used a patent lawyer...it was in the range of $10k by the time all was done.

 

[PA-Buckeye]

Stay away from those invention submission companies. They'll take your $$$, take some more $$$ and by the time you wise up, you're $h!t outta luck.

Or so I've heard. I did a lot of research when one of those places wanted to hire me as a prototype maker. Pretty much scam central if you ask me.

 

[Wastedwagesracing]

Just so you know. When you finally get that patent, your fees are not over.

There are three patent maintenance fee payments that must be made during the life of your patent to keep it in force. These fees are due at 3 ½, 7 ½ and 11 ½ years from the date the patent is granted.

 

[patent pending]

You can do all the work yourself. You can write up the patent application and file it with the USPTO (US Patent and Trademark Office). Then all you are spending is time and filing fees (several hundred dollars). Writing a patent application is not all that hard.

Another approach is to write up the application and hire a patent attorney to review it before filing. Have him/her focus on the claims. If you get those wrong the patent is really easy to work around.

A very good resource is "Patent It Yourself" from Nolo press. Goes for $31.49 on Amazon. The book explains the whole patent procedure well. Even if you go the "hire attorny to do the whole thing" route, the book is a good read so you know what you are talking about and what the attorney is saying.

True, you can do all the work yourself, and the Patent Office gives help to pro se applicants as much as possible. Still, it is a specialized process that you should make yourself famliar with if you can. I havent read any of the self help books on filing patents, but $32 would be a small price to pay to help get it right. Filing fee as a small entity is $500 I think.

I dont know about marketing/selling after a patent...I just examine them. I do know that while an attorney can definitely help, I've examined patents that I can't believe attorneys would do a preliminary search and allow people to pursue.

 

[Cars&Classic]

If its a good idea that you think will really take off, patent the part and then sell the idea and the patent rights to a company that will manufacture the part and has the money required to protect the patent. A mates dad had a school friend who came with the idea of the little plastic chairs that go under reinforcing mesh when laying concrete slabs. He made his prototype, patented the idea , and then sold it all for $7million. He's never had to stuff around with attorneys and trying to protect his patent.
If its something the Chinese are likely to use then trying to protect patents becomes a bit of a nightmare. Cash in and let someone else deal with the worry.

my thought was to sell the ideaas your friend did. I am sure it is a good idea nad would sell. it is a tool (specalized wrench) but common enough I think most people that work on cars in any way would want one.

I think the patten is needed before I try to sell the idea/rights to a tool manufacture. or is there a nother way to protect it?

 

[BMcC]

You can also get a Chinese patent to protect yourself from blatant Chinese imitations. But then the Chicoms will probably require that you make the product in China if you want them to actually enforce the patent.

 

[JDishong]

my advice - spend the time upfront to learn if you have something worth patenting first. So many patents out there that are worthless. You would be shocked at the "success rate" on patents. Be realistic, don't kid yourself and really try to see if what you have is MARKETABLE before you patent.

You should also look into provisional patents.
- Goodluck!