Anyone here know log home construction?

[teknikfrog]

Yes I know, not a garage topic at all. Forgive me but this is the best place I know of online to post this. There are a lot of brains here.

So I live in a log home. There are some moderate workmanship issues throughout. The overall build is really solid and I'm happy with it, but this gives me pause:



Please forgive the blurry I have dropped my iphone too many times. I can get more an better pictures as requested.

Anyway, my concern is with the vertical supports. There are four, I think and I can't find any fasteners on them ANYWHERE. All the horizontal beams kinda lincoln-log together and I feel good about them, but the vertical supports appear to be held in place solely with gravity. I have examined these things with a fine tooth comb and the only way I can see them being held in place other than via gravity is if they have some sort of internal pinning or something on the tops and bottoms. If you look all the way around, nothing. You can see through the horizontal beams, so nothing in there. At the floor there is mitered trim but otherwise no signs these are anchored or connected to the house.

I have only been in like one other log home and it has metal plates that connect everything together.

Am I at risk of a moderate earthquake knocking these things over? They appear to be load-bearing for the mezzanine, and they're obviously load-bearing for the horizontal beams which clearly weigh hundreds of pounds. I'm not far from the New Madrid fault so a 6.5 is completely plausible during my time in this house.

Surely this wouldn't have passed inspection and been given a certificate of occupancy if the builder "forgot" the metal plates right? Am I missing something?

This has been gnawing at me for a while.

 

[jack stand]

If it bothers you enough you could have some T shaped brackets made (1/4" steel pkate) and hide them on the other side.
Add some traditional angle brackets going from each side of the posts up to the beam @ 45*.
"Toenail" some long screws from the posts into the beams.
How old is the cabin?

 

[teknikfrog]

If it bothers you enough you could have some T shaped brackets made (1/4" steel pkate) and hide them on the other side.
Add some traditional angle brackets going from each side of the posts up to the beam @ 45*.
"Toenail" some long screws from the posts into the beams.
How old is the cabin?

I have a mini mill and I can probably make the t-brackets. Actually that was exactly what I was thinking of doing. However I won't do that without knowing 100000% sure that it's neccessary and a good idea.

House was built in 05. The rest of it is fairly normal construction. Typical jack screw supports in the basement (nailed in btw).

 

[jack stand]

Earthquake country?
Otherwise I wouldn't loose any sleep over it, especially after 19 years.

 

[Spareparts]

Could you locate the builder and ask him directly.

 

[cgrutt]

Run a strong magnet, metal detector or studfinder/wall scanner over the joints and see if you can detect any metal that may have been used. It's also possible that there are mortise and tenons. Do you have any blueprints for structure or know who builder/architect was? Maybe something on file with building office or tax assessor?

If you're really curious you may be able to jack underneath beam and see if it holds together or moves freely. I'd block the floor pretty good if you were to go down that path.

 

[teknikfrog]

Run a strong magnet, metal detector or studfinder/wall scanner over the joints and see if you can detect any metal that may have been used.

Good idea. Though if it is some sort of tongue and groove that method would not bear fruit.

 

[cgrutt]

Good idea. Though if it is some sort of tongue and groove that method would not bear fruit.

I'd start with a magnet or even a compass may indicate presence of metal connectors (my guess would be lag bolts from top. Did you look up top? I edited my post you could also try a jack.

 

[teknikfrog]

I'd start with a magnet or even a compass may indicate presence of metal connectors (my guess would be lag bolts from top. Did you look up top? I edited my post you could also try a jack.

Up top there are no visible fasteners.

 

[mreisner]

Most likely there's a Tenon in the middle of the post and both horizontal beams are morticed to accept it.

 

[teknikfrog]

Most likely there's a Tenon in the middle of the post and both horizontal beams are morticed to accept it.

Yeah I mean it seems like it would be crass negligence to put those supports in without a way for them to hook into the horizontal beams. I probably need to quit worrying about it. There are no other red flags in the house that would make me think corners were cut that significantly during construction.

Most of the workmanship issues I've seen imply to me that the builder and the persons who did the finishing (trim etc) work were two different parties.

 

[loganb]

I have a mini mill and I can probably make the t-brackets. Actually that was exactly what I was thinking of doing. However I won't do that without knowing 100000% sure that it's neccessary and a good idea.

These are basically what you're looking for:

OHT

The OHT is a heavy, load-rated T-shaped beam-to-column tie for indoor ornamental applications. With a powder-coat finish and notched surface, it is perfect for projects where connectors are exposed.

www.strongtie.com

Note you need them on both sides of the connection to be load rated

If think you want/need them might as well get them from a company that can backup the engineering on them and look correct to a future inspector.

 

[cgrutt]

I know nothing can be said for sure from a pic but it doesn't look like there was a tenon cut into post unless it was cut with a shoulder but that would leave even less purchase on ends of beams. And if they went through all the trouble to do that the beams would likely have been pinned through the tenon to keep them from pulling apart. If there are no lag bolts going through from top they may have put a couple dowels between top of post and bottom of beam just to lock it into place. It really doesn't need much to hold together with all the weight it's supporting. Hasn't moved yet doubt you need to worry about it.

 

[firebirdparts]

This has nothing to do with "log home" construction. This is just an interior style thing. The person who built it had a way that he did that, which is either nothing, as you fear, or maybe something adequate but invisible like a tenon sticking up into that or a long bolt coming straight down. I'm pretty skeptical that it's really "nothing".

I have no idea which it is, but obviously, if it's a tenon, you'll never be able to find that without making a big mess.

 

[Hooked]

In my log home there are no support posts such as you have but all beams were through nailed using 10" or 12" spikes. Even though there should be no movement with substantial decking connecting all the beams there was no way I would put the beams in place without a mechanical connection.
I'm surprised there is no mechanical connection there but not having moved in 19 years I would move on to other projects.

 

[Toolfool]

Add the T-Straps with proper fasteners and sleep well.

 

[jveretto]

Most of the log home I have helped build were held together by long 10 inch spikes. Is it possible that it is spiked from top and setting on a spike in concrete at the bottom?

 

[teknikfrog]

Most of the log home I have helped build were held together by long 10 inch spikes. Is it possible that it is spiked from top and setting on a spike in concrete at the bottom?

There is another floor under there so no concrete.

Anything is possible I suppose.

I was at the other log home I know this weekend and looked at the supports. They're actually the same as mine, except horizontal beams don't meet at the supports.

 

[teknikfrog]

Add the T-Straps with proper fasteners and sleep well.

Yeah I probably will just for peace of mind tbh. Need to find someone to install them. I want a licensed and bonded contractor for that even though it's a 15 minute job I could easily do.

 

[billconner]

Toe in some structural screws - like 8". Even sink them a little and plug the holes if they show.

 

[Dagny]

19 years dont worry be happy.

 

[bassJAM]

My parents have a log home, they built it 22 years ago when I still lived there. They chose a builder out of Canada (can't remember their name) who specifically hid the structural metal they used, but IIRC they used a lot and claimed their homes were good for like 12ft of snow on the roof or something stupidly crazy like that.

Here's an interior joint like you have:


And the porch roof joints:

 

[teknikfrog]

Pretty house. Those horizontal ceiling/floor beams look identical to my place.

Funny thing. So my neighbors house and my house were built at the same time. Mine has no chinking. It's just milled logs stacked. His has chinking. Otherwise exact same construction style.

 

[teknikfrog]

Here is another shot. Still blurry but perhaps not quite as bad. I have a new phone on the way.