Anyone use a breaker bar for lug nuts?

[RivennHewn]

Y’all have a right healthy relationship with your lug nuts.

I barely know mine.

 

[M6erfan]

No clue - aluminum wheels and ferrous rotors don't crustify outside the rust belt? Here the center hub holes get pitted so bad they aren't hub centeric anymore. I take a wire wheel cup to them usually to take off 1/16 worth of brown/white crust from the mounting services. After cleaning all that up, you don't have to beat the wheels off with dead blows anymore. At least until the crust returns. To be fair, I don't clean every one, I have a "this is bad enough" scale. Since I pay for the grinder and wire wheels, I make the call. Shop always wants to SEND IT, because the customer gotta-go, no time to make things safe.

Not really, unless very close to the ocean. I've got 20+ y.o. cars in our inventory, ones an un-garaged work truck. Just light surface rust on the hubs seen when I have a wheel off, nothing to even worry about.

 

[AJHD]

Not if I can help it. I've got 3/8" and 1/2" impacts for that. I don't have the time or energy for doing it the hard way...

But in those rare occasions a lug nut just won't come off, I've got a 1/2" breaker bar and a long 1/2" ratchet. I've also got 1/2" extractor sockets and even 1/2" half-size lug sockets. It's coming off one way or the other whether it wants to or not.

Thankfully I don't buy or work on rusty scrap metal not living in the salt belt. It's too damn hot and dry (most of the time) in this desert hell hole for anything more than a thin layer of flash rust on exposed bare metal.

 

[Bubba Fett]

I've got a few impacts, but I feel the breaker bar is easier on the crappy capped lug nuts on my vehicles. I usually break them free with the breaker bar and finish removal with an impact. Installation is the opposite. I snug them with the impact and torque them on with the breaker bar (no I don't use a torque wrench to torque to factory spec... sorry).

Everyone knows you just say "click" when it's tight enough, and it's fine.

 

[Jeepster04]

Breaker bar to loosen, impact to remove and snug, torque wrench to tighten.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Not really, unless very close to the ocean. I've got 20+ y.o. cars in our inventory, ones an un-garaged work truck. Just light surface rust on the hubs seen when I have a wheel off, nothing to even worry about.

No mountain of white crust/powder around the center bore where the aluminum touches? That's wild. Guys don't even "work" on cars outside the rust belt, they 'aught to disassemble themselves! LOL

On plenty of 10yo cars a wheel bearing de-facto includes a new axle, because the nut for the axle has no points and is tapered at 30 degrees into a mound of scale. Even though one can usually get them off with a torch and pencil point bit on an air hammer, the threads below are typically so gone you can't even start a replacement nut. That, and you're typically missing any thread that stuck out proud of the nut, all rotted away.



2 main reasons for wheel-offs I see are - improperly seated wheels (corrosion,etc), and straight up not tightening them. As in starting them by hand a few threads, getting distracted, and sending it out without ever tightening them. Fun fact, you can actually make a torque wrench click in the last scenario, as you apply more than XYZ ft/lbs of force while trying to drag the wheel inwards. If goober doesn't go through twice and realize the nuts are not actually tight, out it will go. I once saw a kid try to drag a wheel flush using that very technique, because re-racking the car to actually snug them up with a gun was too hard. Ah, fast-food wage employees.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Not if I can help it. I've got 3/8" and 1/2" impacts for that. I don't have the time or energy for doing it the hard way...

But in those rare occasions a lug nut just won't come off, I've got a 1/2" breaker bar and a long 1/2" ratchet. I've also got 1/2" extractor sockets and even 1/2" half-size lug sockets. It's coming off one way or the other whether it wants to or not.

Thankfully I don't buy or work on rusty scrap metal not living in the salt belt. It's too damn hot and dry (most of the time) in this desert hell hole for anything more than a thin layer of flash rust on exposed bare metal.

Number one issue I see with lugs that won't come off isn't torque, it's swollen or otherwise damaged lugs. Which means ineffective torque transfer when that swollen nut is only a 20mm over a 5mm long section. Which rounds it. Then you need somebody competent ASAP. If not, they're basically assured to need drilled out. People would bring me stuff that was a 21mm, ground down with turbo sockets into a 13mm cone. Same deal as when someone puts vice-grips on a drain plug - STOP and get someone qualified to remove it. I've slapped some egos where I work because I will call someone out and tell them to put the tools down and get away from the fastener. Just more work for when I eventually need to remove it.

Even when they're cross threaded they're "easy" to remove. Just whack it with a gun or a breaker bar/pipe combo, snap, done.

 

[demarpaint]

I've I'm home I use an impact gun for lug nuts. On the road a 25" breaker bar.

 

[M635_Guy]

So, long story short, I recently picked up a Craftsman corded electric impact wrench for removing lug nuts. It works great but its heavy and the cord can be kind of annoying. So, the other day, I asked myself, "why dont I just use a breaker bar?" I recently picked up a Husky 1/2" extendable breaker bar that I plan to use for lug nuts.
Does anyone else use a breaker bar for removing lug nuts?

I have a couple still in my garage, but haven't had to use them since I got my Milwaukee impacts (currently a Stubby and a Gen2 Mid). I try very hard to not take my cars to shops where the techs are in love with their uggas and their torque wrenches are dusty...

 

[nbpt100]

"Techs" don't understand the basics of a torque wrench??? WTF are they teaching in trade school?

When I got new tires I watched the "techs" through the window. They used a impast/torque stick but followed up with a torque wrench, that moved the lug nuts before they clicked. Maybe they used one value less (of a torque stick) than what's called for, which would make perfect sense.

Some are real good and some are terrible. When I was in High School the trade schools were a dumping ground for kids with problems. A lot has changed where I live. the Trade school in my area now can throw out kids for not having the grades for for being a trouble maker. that is the way it should be. Let the teachers teach and not be baby sitters.

 

[M6erfan]

Some are real good and some are terrible. When I was in High School the trade schools were a dumping ground for kids with problems. A lot has changed where I live. the Trade school in my area now can throw out kids for not having the grades for for being a trouble maker. that is the way it should be. Let the teachers teach and not be baby sitters.

I hear ya. Hopefully the trades can give some direction for those that college or other avenues may not be an option.

I took a small engine class in 8th grade (back when 'shop class' was a thing in public schools). Our teacher taught us about proper use of a torque wrench. Hell, I remember we even touched on k-factor.

Seems like the business model of the quick lube is pretty crappy. No, I don't need an air filter, thanks for asking. . .

 

[dnschmidt]

Well, I'm sure some techs are just as bad as assumed above but personally I buy all of my tires at Discount Tire and I assure you that their techs definitely know how to use a torque wrench (specifically a Precision Instruments Split beam torque wrench.) They spin them down with an impact after hand installing the lug nuts but final tightening and you can bet the wrench moves is always done with the torque wrench. Right on the receipt is listed the torque spec for the specific car being worked on. Amazingly, the techs at Discount Tire religiously read what that says and do as it instructs. So all tire techs are not "Crudey Rudys".

 

[m6z]

Since we're talking about breaker bars..

Anyone have a recommendation on an extendable breaker bar? Something good for a road toolbox?

 

[nbpt100]

Right. But most here on GJ WOULD say that.

But for the rest of the real world, they're at the mercy of crappy/lazy "techs". My BIL, right after I met my now wife, hand a front wheel come off his truck while driving down the highway (he had just had it in for clutch service). Lucky nobody was killed.

It always has to be factored in that the members on GJ are not the rest of the real world.

Not enough gets done to hold shops responsible for the damage they cause, so they don't care. Often, they get paid to fix what they broke, so bonus! There's also an education issue, lots of techs don't understand how a torque wrench actually works, so they put liugs on with a gun, and the 'check' with a torque wrench. It of course clicks instantly, so they think it's good. It'll will continue happening until logging torque wrenches are mandated, sadly.

Yes, So true. But to be fair the good and honest shops will put a caveat on things up front. I have had shops say. Your car has rust and we may break some things to fix the issue you are here for. etc. But I bet most do not say that up front. Only after it happens.

"Techs" don't understand the basics of a torque wrench??? WTF are they teaching in trade school?

When I got new tires I watched the "techs" through the window. They used a impast/torque stick but followed up with a torque wrench, that moved the lug nuts before they clicked. Maybe they used one value less (of a torque stick) than what's called for, which would make perfect sense.

Some trade schools are very good and some are not. It is school district by school disctrict. In areas where the parents value education they are much better. The trade school in my district can throw out kids for not keeping up their grades and or for being a trouble maker. With the high cost of college more paents are seeing the value in being a plumber or Electician and it is more competitive to get in. I'm not sure what it may be like in other areas.

On the ohter hand my friend has a kid who is learning disabled and he was just pushed through a trade high school in the Boston area. I had to help him change the tire on his car and I was surprised at how clueless he was in how to use any of the basic tools to do it. He is a good kid but did not lean a lot in school.

I can understand if they cross thread the lug nut and/or it rusts on there but how tight can anyone get lug nuts without snapping the stud? Years ago, when I got my used Snap-On 3850, my buddy thought it was a toy and snapped off the first stud on my car like nothing. I believe it was 9/16" with a 13/16" socket and the studs were in good shape.

Very tight. My 300 ft-lb will not move them with a freshly charged battery. on serveral cars I needed a pipe over a 18" breaker bar to move them. No stud damage. Maybe nut damage. I have had to run taps through the nuts to get them to spin as they should.

Right. But most here on GJ WOULD say that.

But for the rest of the real world, they're at the mercy of crappy/lazy "techs". My BIL, right after I met my now wife, hand a front wheel come off his truck while driving down the highway (he had just had it in for clutch service). Lucky nobody was killed.

Always a good thing to be reminded of. The members here on GJ are more aware, knowledgeable and engaged in thier vehicles than the other 99%. Said differently ......Not judging anyone, but we are not them and they are not us.

 

[M6erfan]

Since we're talking about breaker bars..

Anyone have a recommendation on an extendable breaker bar? Something good for a road toolbox?

I bought an extendable 1/2" ratchet from HF, beats the hell out of the factory tool.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Carry my Milwaukee impact with me on trips of any distance and use it in the garage to remove anything.

Start them on by hand, then use my impact on low, then use my torque wrench

 

[dscheidt]

Since we're talking about breaker bars..

Anyone have a recommendation on an extendable breaker bar? Something good for a road toolbox?

Do you want a breaker bar or a lug wrench? telescoping lug wrenches tend to a be bit shorter when collapsed; they have a fixed L shape, the leg of the L is usually long enough to use a flip socket without an extension. Breaker bars usually have a swivel head.

 

[M6erfan]

Well, I'm sure some techs are just as bad as assumed above but personally I buy all of my tires at Discount Tire and I assure you that their techs definitely know how to use a torque wrench (specifically a Precision Instruments Split beam torque wrench.) They spin them down with an impact after hand installing the lug nuts but final tightening and you can bet the wrench moves is always done with the torque wrench. Right on the receipt is listed the torque spec for the specific car being worked on. Amazingly, the techs at Discount Tire religiously read what that says and do as it instructs. So all tire techs are not "Crudey Rudys".

That's were I get my tires too. Agreed, they do an excellent job with mounting IME.

 

[m6z]

Do you want a breaker bar or a lug wrench? telescoping lug wrenches tend to a be bit shorter when collapsed; they have a fixed L shape, the leg of the L is usually long enough to use a flip socket without an extension. Breaker bars usually have a swivel head.

I don't really have a preference.

 

[M6erfan]

I don't really have a preference.

See post #45 for a great alternative to a '4 way' lug wrench. Packs down small too.

I went with the HF extendable ratchet and a set of flip sockets (handy for when I need to help out someone with different size lugs than mine). Takes up very little space, and inexpensive.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Some 45 years ago, I had to change a tire on my 3/4T 4x4 on my driveway at my cabin. The lug nuts were rusted on. I broke my 13/16" Wright socket , a Proto Challenger flex head, and and three studs. After that, I always use Never Sneeze.

 

[dnschmidt]

I have allergies. Where do you buy Never Sneeze.

 

[Relax]

For me it depends on how much I care about the lug nut wells of the wheels I'm removing. If they're already scratched up, I just use my DeWalt 1/2" battery impact. If they're mint, then I use a breaker bar or long-handled ratchet.

 

[AJHD]

Number one issue I see with lugs that won't come off isn't torque, it's swollen or otherwise damaged lugs. Which means ineffective torque transfer when that swollen nut is only a 20mm over a 5mm long section. Which rounds it. Then you need somebody competent ASAP. If not, they're basically assured to need drilled out. People would bring me stuff that was a 21mm, ground down with turbo sockets into a 13mm cone. Same deal as when someone puts vice-grips on a drain plug - STOP and get someone qualified to remove it. I've slapped some egos where I work because I will call someone out and tell them to put the tools down and get away from the fastener. Just more work for when I eventually need to remove it.

Even when they're cross threaded they're "easy" to remove. Just whack it with a gun or a breaker bar/pipe combo, snap, done.

I can't say I've ever seen that that bad.

Seen plenty of swollen chrome cap lug nuts. I live in Arizona and the heat fucks those capped lug nuts. That's why I have half-size sockets; 19.5mm, 21.5mm, 22.5mm

I've had co-workers go nuts with the impacts, cross-thread, or use the wrong sized socket, but I was always able to get the lug nut off and worse case replace the stud and nut.

I also have 1/2" lug nut sized extractor sockets... Toughest one I've come across was a Mercedes with a broken wheel. The guys wife grenade it into a curb.

 

[Mr Ratchet]

Not normally. I use my impact unless there is no air or if my impact won't break one loose. In that case I use my 1/2" drive GW 24" longer breaker. One time neither worked and I used my 3/4" drive 40" breaker with a 3/4" drive socket. It squealed like a pig for the first turn and then finished it off with my impact. The impact is way faster and I can break the lugs loose when the wheels are off the ground. I rotate my tires, my wife's and daughter's. I don't over torque them (by feel) and chase the stud and nut threads when needed. If they are looking rusty I'll hit them with a little WD-40 and work the nut off and on a few times before installing them.

 

[Badgerstate]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I hadnt thought about an extendable ratchet, Im sure that would work fine too. Id actually thought about just getting a cordless impact wrench but I kind of dont want to spend $150 for one when Im only going to use it a couple times a year.

 

[dmaxfireman]

I don't use a breaker bar unless....

1. An impact is not readily available
2. An impact will not fit
3. An impact will not remove said fastener

 

[Sneezer]

I used to carry a breaker bar, speeder and deep socket for tire changes in my truck. There are also some 1/2” extendable ratchets that would work pretty well too I think.

Couple years ago I bought a lug wrench off Amazon, that Craftsman appears to be copying or rebranding.

Craftsman lug wrench

I have been pretty happy with mine. I keep a set of those flip sockets with it, and also carry a cheap cordless impact when we go on road trips. That seems to cover most needs for me.

 

[Sdot]

Yuh that's about the only thing 24" hf is good for

 

[Rinspeed]

Why wouldn't you use a breaker bar? Why is this a question?

Unless I’m on the side of the road I would never use a breaker bar. That’s what impacts are for.

 

[fasteddie]

I use a 4 way cross wrench to break them and a Craftsman 1/4" impact driver to spin them on and off.

 

[bpjr]

Yes, breaker bar just to loosen. Its easier on my 72 yr old body than a lug wrench most of the time, especially on boat trailers used in saltwater.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

A four-way in use feels almost twice as long, one side pulling the other pushing. Now a days, traveling, I use an battery powered 1/2" impact to run the stabilizer jacks up and down on the travel trailer so it's no big deal to have 15/16" deep impact socket as well. A $20 torque wrench finishes it up. Travel trailer lug nuts have to be checked regularly.

 

[silkman]

I don't like breaker bars because you need to remove and put it back, compared to a ratchet. Eg removing a tough axle bolt means removal of the bar multiple times = pain.

So instead I got the best and longest extendable 1/2" ratchet on the planet.
Hazet 916HPLg, extendable to 600mm and rated up to 1000Nm

 

[Ralf11]

... the best and longest extendable 1/2" ratchet on the planet.
Hazet 916HPLg, extendable to 600mm and rated up to 1000Nm

I wish they made that in a flex head. I got the Facom unit instead.

 

[silkman]

I wish they made that in a flex head. I got the Facom unit instead.

Facom is good. But why you need flex head in a breaking bar?

Another painful experience with breaking bars is when removing or installing bearings or bushes; with a long ratcheting bar it is so much easier, even compared to impact.

 

[M6erfan]

I don't like breaker bars because you need to remove and put it back, compared to a ratchet. Eg removing a tough axle bolt means removal of the bar multiple times = pain.

So instead I got the best and longest extendable 1/2" ratchet on the planet.
Hazet 916HPLg, extendable to 600mm and rated up to 1000Nm

Those looks really nice. I like that extends to 24". And 90t to boot

 

[MarkH]

For our business. the common words are got the 3/4 or 1 inch bar where is the 8 foot fence post pounder. They make great extensions. Which if that does not work is followed by where is the gas wrench.

Some of the few HF ones we use are the 25 inch with a socket on them in the cars. For an emergency change beats the one that came with the car.

 

[RickyPetite]

Helped a friend do brakes yesterday on his F30 BMW. Lug nuts were nearly impossible to get off. Used a breaker bar and cracked a new SK 6 point socket. My Craftsman impact was no match. Ended up taking it to my local mechanic and paid for a tire rotation. His industrial-sized impact took the nuts off easily. Kind of humbling actually.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ Always put some light oil on the threads before tightening those. Euro lug bolts often stick out a thread or two behind the hub, and will begin rusting from that point inwards.