Anyone use propane for heat? what are your thoughts?

[Hobby_Man22]

Anyone use one of those 200 gallon propane tanks outside to heat your house/shop? What are your thoughts? How often do you have to fill it?

 

[isb cornbinder]

Your question is, Anyone use one of those 200 gallon propane tanks outside to heat your house/shop? I hope you consider adding a furnace to your system. I have used a propane fueled furnace until the natural-gas was an option. The propane heat cost much more than NG. We have a heat-pump system that can use CNG and/or the heat pump. Our annual heat cost is nearly half with the heat-pump. The heat-pump offers the bonus of AC.

 

[Noltz]

Propane is pretty popular for houses where I've moved out. Generally 500 gallon tanks, which I'm told last about 3-4 months in winter. These aren't new houses but generally about 1800 sq ft.

Easier calculation for you is to consider BTU's. Full 200 gallon tank is 18,300,000 BTU. How much does your furnace burn? My house furnace is 100,000 BTU per hour, so I'd have 183 hours running time on a 200 gallon tank. Then it comes down to insulation.

 

[Junkman]

Where natural gas isn't an option, then propane is the next best thing. I heated it with oil for 30 years, and every year it kept getting more expensive. Propane is clean burning and the modern boiler is more efficient than the oil hot air furnace. There were propane association incentives to remove the oil and install the propane, and that made the change even better. I don't know if they are still available, since it was about 4 or 5 years ago that we converted. Another bonus was that they helped to pay for the removal of the inground oil tank. I have a yearly contract price and it is very affordable to heat the home. One thing that I did do was to have the attic roof deck and the end walls spray foamed, so it keeps the warm air in and the cold air out. There was just too much heat loss even with 10" of fiberglass insulation between the ceiling joists. I have 5 100-gallon tanks that they fill when they get to the 30% level of propane. The tanks have an automatic device that reports the fuel level to the company by satellite daily.

 

[Firebrick43]

I personally, working for a propane distributor, have never seen a 200 gallon propane tank, but there were some weird sizes back in the 50's, we have a 3000 gal grain dryer tank that is the diameter of a 500 but 50' long or so.

120 gallon bottles, 250 gal, very few 325 gal, and the majority are 500 gallon with the second most pop 1000 gal. Some times 2 tanks are hooked together. One hog barn has 6- 1000 hooked together.

Those gal sizes are water capacity. They are only filled to 80-85 percent of water capacity to allow for expansion of the Liquid propane in warmer weather.

As far as how long does it last, it depends on the size of the house, its insulation, and what appliances are on it.

Some customers use 300 ish gallons of month here in indiana, some 300 a year in more of a back up role to wood heat. One place uses 750-1000 gal a month to heat a pool in the summer.

You need to do a manual J calculation and figure out how many BTU's you need. There is 91,000 BTU's embodied in a gallon of propane.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Propane is pretty popular for houses where I've moved out. Generally 500 gallon tanks, which I'm told last about 3-4 months in winter. These aren't new houses but generally about 1800 sq ft.

Easier calculation for you is to consider BTU's. Full 200 gallon tank is 18,300,000 BTU. How much does your furnace burn? My house furnace is 100,000 BTU per hour, so I'd have 183 hours running time on a 200 gallon tank. Then it comes down to insulation.

Propane can only be filled to 80 percent

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Propane can only be filled to 80 percent. 183hrs isn't much 100k btu is quite a bit for 1900sqft

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I personally, working for a propane distributor, have never seen a 200 gallon propane tank, but there were some weird sizes back in the 50's, we have a 3000 gal grain dryer tank that is the diameter of a 500 but 50' long or so.

120 gallon bottles, 250 gal, very few 325 gal, and the majority are 500 gallon with the second most pop 1000 gal. Some times 2 tanks are hooked together. One hog barn has 6- 1000 hooked together.

Those gal sizes are water capacity. They are only filled to 80-85 percent of water capacity to allow for expansion of the Liquid propane in warmer weather.

As far as how long does it last, it depends on the size of the house, its insulation, and what appliances are on it.

Some customers use 300 ish gallons of month here in indiana, some 300 a year in more of a back up role to wood heat. One place uses 750-1000 gal a month to heat a pool in the summer.

You need to do a manual J calculation and figure out how many BTU's you need. There is 91,000 BTU's embodied in a gallon of propane.

Guess my friend doesn't know how big his tank is. Tank looked pretty big to only be 200 gallons

 

[Noltz]

Propane can only be filled to 80 percent

Quite right. It was included in my numbers that I pulled from Google. 500 gallon tanks hold 400 gallons of propane (33M BTU).

 

[Walkers]

I use about a hundred gallons of propane a year to heat my shop. That is only to take the chill off in the mornings, and running a couple hours a day on the coldest days. I have equipment in and out, bay doors opened and closed all day long. I am also in Phoenix Az.
If you are totally closed, insulated and trying to maintain 70 degrees your bill would likely be one 500 gallon tank and most of another all winter in Texas.

 

[P51Mustang]

Here in Iowa, most people use natural gas or propane (we tend to call it LP). Almost no heating oil anymore around here. NG in town and LP in the country.

As Firebrick43 stated the amount used will depend on the size of the space, the weather, the amount of insulation and what is using it. I heat my current 20x40 shop on propane. The shop is on its own 500 gal tank. The shop is drafty and poorly insulated (working on improving that) so depending on how cold it is and how often I am using the shop, I will go thru at least one tank full and most of the time a 2nd tank a winter.

 

[Firebrick43]

Guess my friend doesn't know how big his tank is. Tank looked pretty big to only be 200 gallons

I am not saying it isn't a 200 gallon tank, I am saying I have never seen one.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I used to have a diesel/kerosene "torpedo" heater for my shop, which was excellent... until it failed, filling my garage with plumes of thick, bluish-black diesel smoke... I went through it, got it running again... a week later, it repeated it's fatal mistake, so out it went. I replaced it with the propane version, and it ran like a raped ape. No problems, no fumes, no nonsense. No rotted out lines to fail, no pumps to die. When it was REALLY cold (ie 2 feet of snow on the roof, and frozen water jugs) I had a smaller version with a drilled out orfice - I had to be careful where it pointed (it threw a 6" flame out the front - wheeee!!!) but it never cr@pped the sheets either (and I abused the **** out of it)... no stink, no fumes, etc.

Electric - YIKES! EXpensive. Spun the meter like a top. Probably looked like Farmer McDope... so that was definitely a no-go.

For me it was a no brainer. One of our current heat sources is a propane boiler and radiators (backed up by a pellet-fired boiler) and it's really reasonable to keep our home at a balmy 21.5º (C, not F) when it's below freezing outside. If set up right, it's effective, relatively cheap (even here in gas-hungry and expensive Europe) and burns clean. If I was still at the old place I'd get a gas fired blower equipped heater (like the industrial ones in farigrounds buildings and workplaces), add a reserve tank to the shop (200-300 ga), and not worry (that was our plan until last year, anyway).

BTW - I fed that from a 10 gallon stand up tank I refilled off our wet tap for our house. It had enough to heat the shop AND run the forge intermittantly through a 4 day weekend with room to spare (as long as I didn't freeze the tank!). So yeah, IMO propane is the way to go.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I pay about $8/day for electricity right now with a 5 ton heat pump. Everything is electric though. It should be $4/day electricity is expensive now @ 14 cents a kilowatt

 

[jblnut]

Usage is very dependant on insulation and location.

Up here in Central MN, with a very well insulated 54x72x18 shop heated to 58f and a brand new SIP 2500sq/ft home we used a touch over 2,000gal last year. This year so far we've used exactly zero as the new outdoor wood boiler has been keeping things nice and toasty.

Our old house which was 840sq/ft used over 1,000gal by itself ...... Twas a bit of a corn crib lol.

Propane is great though and is often the most economical if you're in a cold climate where a heat pump system won't keep up.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Usage is very dependant on insulation and location.

Up here in Central MN, with a very well insulated 54x72x18 shop heated to 58f and a brand new SIP 2500sq/ft home we used a touch over 2,000gal last year. This year so far we've used exactly zero as the new outdoor wood boiler has been keeping things nice and toasty.

Our old house which was 840sq/ft used over 1,000gal by itself ...... Twas a bit of a corn crib lol.

Propane is great though and is often the most economical if you're in a cold climate where a heat pump system won't keep up.

Is a heat pump just as economical?

 

[PoorUB]

I am not saying it isn't a 200 gallon tank, I am saying I have never seen one.

Probably a 250 gallon.

 

[PoorUB]

Is a heat pump just as economical?

The problem with a heat pump in the north country is you still need a second heat source as the HP will not heat below roughly 10F. So many people do not bother with the HP and just use LPG. But yes, the heat pump will most likely be less money to operate in warmer temps.

Then if you have NG it really isn't worth it as NG is generally less money to operate.

 

[82355]

I have a 1,000 gallon tank. I use it for my furnace, my water heater, and my stove.

Around here it is much cheaper than heating with electric.

Martin

 

[pcmeiners]

"Around here it is much cheaper than heating with electric."

Propane is not going to be cheaper than a heat pump, at least not with a COP of 3 or 4.

 

[82355]

"Around here it is much cheaper than heating with electric."

Propane is not going to be cheaper than a heat pump, at least not with a COP of 3 or 4.

I know a few people that had houses with electric heat. It cost a lot of money to heat them. More than people with propane.

I think that makes it cheaper?

Martin

 

[Juneaudave]

I have a 1000 gal tank that feeds the house and a new detached 950 sq ft, well insulated, workshop/garage. I paid up for an efficient Rennai wall heater for the workhop side that is set for standby 38 deg (to keep things from freezing) when the work shop is not in use. The separate garage side has an overhead propane Big Maxx shop heater to provide heat on demand. This is our first winter with the new workshop/garage so I don't have a good idea on the increase in heating costs yet. I think the set up is pretty economical....I know that it is very comfortable for our cold winters. Both the Rennai and the Big Maxx are vented outside to avoid any issues with fumes.

 

[steves_001]

Good thread! I live in the north part of MN. My heat is provided by a hot water in floor radiant system and so far its gone through what I consider a lot of fuel. I've filled my tank twice this winter (500 gal) and hope this last one gets thru the cold. I do have some issues to work out yet on the heat system to get it running more efficient. Having flow rate issues which I think is what the high use of fuel has been.

Anyone else on propane in this area with hot water heat that uses a large amount?
I expected this to be a lot less. House is basically new, spray foam, 2x6 walls and a lot of blown in insulation in the ceiling.

Sure wish we had NG here.

 

[fitter30]

When looking at lp tanks main thing the have to looked at is the size of the tank verses vapor pressure at lowest outside temp and capacity needed. Look at temperature, size of tank and btu output.

Propane Tank Sizing - Tarantin Industries

www.tarantin.com

 

[jblnut]

Is a heat pump just as economical?

As was said below your post they don't work below a certain temp. It's not very common but it will get to -40f here at times. More common is -15f - -20f for a few weeks at a time. Gotta shave some other source of heat at that point.

 

[P0234]

I know a few people that had houses with electric heat. It cost a lot of money to heat them. More than people with propane.

I think that makes it cheaper?

Martin

Electric heat is about 3x more expensive than a heat pump. Once temps get into the teens most heat pumps get closer to electric heat prices, the more efficient ones can hold their own into the single digits. 40 and above and a heat pump is cheaper than just about anything beside free wood.

 

[American Locomotive]

I'm seeing $2.924/gallon for residential propane in texas. With an 80% furnace gas furnace, it would cost just as much to heat you house with propane as it would straight electric resistance heat @ 0.14/kwh.

Even a terrible heatpump should use half the power as straight electric resistance heat.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I'm seeing $2.924/gallon for residential propane in texas. With an 80% furnace gas furnace, it would cost just as much to heat you house with propane as it would straight electric resistance heat @ 0.14/kwh.

Even a terrible heatpump should use half the power as straight electric resistance heat.

Yeah my heat pump pulls 65 amps with the heat strips on and I think probably 32 amps with just the heat pump function. My other house has an air handler with only heat strips and it gets spendy in the winter if it's cold.

 

[mcbane]

... electricity is expensive now @ 14 cents a kilowatt

Try $0.50 per kwh in CA.

 

[Ed in Virginia]

I heat my 800 sq. ft. shop with a 35-year-old Modine propane heater. I keep the thermostat at 56 when I'm not in there and then turn it up a little when I'm working. It puts out enough heat to run you out of there if you don't turn the thermostat back. I have a 120 gal. tank. We are having a mild Winter in Virginia this year (it was in the 70s for a couple of days last week) so I've only had to fill it once. Propane around here is going for a little over $4 a gallon right now. In a cold Winter, I'll go through a tank a month.

If you go with propane, I recommend buying the tank instead of leasing. Leasing ties you to your supplier. If you own the tank, you can shop prices and change vendors at will. Make sure to keep proof of purchase because future suppliers will not fill a tank leased from a competitor. Prices vary a good bit around here. The big players like Amerigas (the worst) and Superior are pretty high while some of the mom & pop suppliers can save you money.

 

[PoorUB]

"Around here it is much cheaper than heating with electric."

Propane is not going to be cheaper than a heat pump, at least not with a COP of 3 or 4.

People forget the COP goes all to hell when the temps drop. The COP at 20F or 10F might be close to 1 and it is a gradual slide to get to that point. At 30F the COP might be 2. The COP might be 3+ at 50F and gradually tapers of as the temps lower. The COP is not always 3+.

That said, depending on you price per KWh and LPG, gas might be less money to heat with below 30F and a HP less money above.
Plus, like I mentioned before in the north you need backup heat if you have a HP. Many people just skip the HP.

 

[Skiff Builder]

Anyone use one of those 200 gallon propane tanks outside to heat your house/shop? What are your thoughts? How often do you have to fill it?

What I Learned after 33 years of heating with propane:

If able arrange a yearly pre-buy price in August for the amount of gallons you'll think you use. In my case it was about 1000 per year.

Tell them you want a "will call" delivery schedule. Monitor your usage call when you need more and allow a week for delivery. They may try to do short fills and top ups while they are in the nieghborhood- which all result in extra fees- delivery, safety,etc.
Don't ever run dry- emergency fees, relighting appliance fees,etc.

When you get near the end of contracted amount, do not let them give you extra without first negotiating the price.It will be at market price- probably 50-100% more than contract price. They bang a-lot of people with this. Ours would also fill to 95% if this happened.

Take care of your deliveryman. Shovel a path, leave a space in driveway, tip at Xmas, leave a drink or snack. Goes a long way. He can help prevent you from getting F'ed by the company.

Trust nothing the office says over the phone. Get everything in email.

Negotiate hard for your annual price. Not uncommon to pay half what your non caring neighbors may pay.

If an existing tank, make them prove it's not yours. They probably can't.

All co's by me are in bed together on pricing and not going after each others accounts.

Be ready for any tricks they can think of. When you've done your best on your deal, they may tell you they cant contract for the 1000 gals you've been ordering for the last 3 decades. Now they will only agree to 700 gals.....

Neighbors on a budget plan could never tell me the price per gallon they were paying!

I could go on. The big national companies would use shady tactics and never relent. Be on your guard.

As a fuel, it was clean. I never allowed the company in my home for anything. Serviced / cleaned equip myself. Would never add additional equip on principal.

 

[pcmeiners]

"People forget the COP goes all to hell when the temps drop."

It does vary as to temperature, but if your willing to pay for a high efficiency, low temp unit (if needed), they maintain a good COP, without resorting to resistance heat coils when the temperature drops; get a relatively efficient HP, it will beat propane any time You get what you pay for. On the other hand, if you heat with electric resistance, ANYTHING beats it.

"Try $0.50 per kwh in CA."

Not seeing that on a lookup, but Cali and NY are thieves when it comes to electric, NYC is supposedly $.24

 

[82355]

I'm seeing $2.924/gallon for residential propane in texas. With an 80% furnace gas furnace, it would cost just as much to heat you house with propane as it would straight electric resistance heat @ 0.14/kwh.

Even a terrible heatpump should use half the power as straight electric resistance heat.

That's about twice what I am paying for propane.

Hence me saying around here.

In the last fifteen years, I only remember one year that was above $2 a gallon.

Martin

 

[toyotadriver]

I love propane. I like having my heat source sitting outside and start full for winter.

I can store enough for an entire year. I have a 500 gallon tank for the house and a 120 gallon tank for the shop (plus a couple 100lb tanks as spares). The 120 gallon isn't quite enough for a winter so I supplement it with 100lb tanks. I am hoping to find another 120 gallon tank by fill time next summer so I don't need the 100lb tanks any more.

By filling once per year in the summer, I get to pay the lowest prices of the year.

 

[19D2P]

Go to the coal pail site and use the calculator to decide what costs less for your particular situation...here my best price is actually electric. We are right near hydro generation and pay a tiered rate between $.06 and .10 based on usage. My main beef with propane is the wild fluctuations in price. Here it will go from $2.20 in summer to $4.00 in winter. My home uses a propane furnace and I prebuy between 2-3000 gallons depending on cost in the summer. As soon as it dies I will go with a ground source heat pump and be very happy.

 

[olytdi]

Just calculate the cost of BTU/$ for all of your different fuel options and pick the cheapest and most stable. Usually most stable is electric. Factor in that gas unit heaters are 80% efficient and electric 100% efficient.

Here in western Washington, electric is every bit as cost effective as any other "fuel" except wood -- but that's a whole other dilemma. Also, if you run electric, you don't need a gas tank, gas itself, a gas line to your heater, regulators, gas home delivery, a flue through your roof or wall...etc...

 

[Walkers]

I know a few people that had houses with electric heat. It cost a lot of money to heat them. More than people with propane.

I think that makes it cheaper?

Martin

You can easily check by converting the nuts per gallon to watts, then check the price per kilowatt for electric. You will generally find electric is cheaper. As far as cost to heat, 2 houses next door to each other can vary drastically due to build quality and materials as well as how hot they like it.. the big draw to fuel heat is in cold climates where heat pumps are not as effective, fuel burning heater just put out hotter air in sub freezing temps.

 

[gmcgeo]

Probably a 250 gallon.

or 200# (58 gallon) most get confused with Propane tanks.

 

[TractorJeff]

For what its worth, I prebuy 350 gallons in the summer for my 120 gallon tank. It generally last all the cold time here in Southern Wisconsin for my new build 6 inch walls and 12 inches of insulation in the Attic.