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Anyone used GFRP rebar?

billconner

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Curious how it went I see it at about half the price of plain steel now. Seems like a smart idea for some applications. Seems not bendable in field. Working solo it's light weight is a plus.

Thanks.
 
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ConCretin

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To be honest, I had no idea it had become so competitive relative to steel. We buy the vast majority of our steel pre-fabricated so it's not really on my radar. I can't think of a downside for use in the a residential slab aor foundation aside from the lack of bent bars as you point out. Could always use traditional rebar as necessary. Cheaper, lighter to handle, plenty strong and no risk of corrosion. win, win in my book. Thanks for pointing this out.
 
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billconner

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I used Menards web site and compared 7/16 to no. 4. I have read in several technical articles no 3 GFRP is equal to no 4 steel. FWIW
no. 4 grade 60 - 10.58
no. 4 GFRP - 10.58
no. 3 1/2 GFRP - 4.49
no. 3 GFRP - 6.49

The no. 3 1/2 is made Litebar, seemingly a good quality US company. The nos. 3 and 4 are "Menards" and I guess could be China imports. IDK

Do you tie this with zip ties? :)
 

PoorUB

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Would that condominium building that collapsed in Florida still be standing today if they had
GFRP back in the day?
 

ZRX61

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The latest thing is using graphene in the mix & that apparently negates the need for rebar in slabs... Probably still in the testing/experimental phase though. Sure would make construction a lot easier if all you had to do was dig, form, place & finish.
 
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billconner

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I'd read about that but thought not yet practical.

In a minority for sure but am looking at fiber mesh and air entrainment in 5" slab, purely floating on a very well compacted base, isolation at all edges, stegoewrap or similar under, and maybe no cuts. It seems a few have been successful. If I do add reinforcement, the GFRP on chairs us nice because it springs back reliably, and I'm pretty sure a lot of slabs have their reinforcement at the bottom based on demolition I've seen.

Springtime.....
 

Bert_

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I've been around it some. I know a few guys that use it exclusively for flat work. Little more limited in walls and footings since you can't bend it.

The couple times I have personally worked with it I used regular tie wire.
 

ConCretin

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In a minority for sure but am looking at fiber mesh and air entrainment in 5" slab, purely floating on a very well compacted base, isolation at all edges, stegoewrap or similar under, and maybe no cuts.
Bill, be very careful using air entrained concrete with a steel trowel finish especially in warm weather. If the concrete surface gets sealed up too soon air and bleed water get trapped and pool under the surface causing de-lamination. You only need need air entrained concrete for exterior applications, which are subject to moisture. Exterior surfaces don't usually get a steel trowel finish so it's not an issue. There is no advantage and a lot of risk in using air entrained concrete inside.
 
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billconner

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Then I may have misunderstood and I appreciate your comment. The pouring and finishing the slab is only work I don't plan to self perform. And I have considered just pea gravel and even thought about pavers. Unlike most garages here which should be called workshops, this is storage only. Which is why I even considered broom finish on a slab. I'd rather spend money on my old garage transforming to my workshop.

Now, if I only live long enough to use them.
 

ynned

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Bill, be very careful using air entrained concrete with a steel trowel finish especially in warm weather. If the concrete surface gets sealed up too soon air and bleed water get trapped and pool under the surface causing de-lamination. You only need need air entrained concrete for exterior applications, which are subject to moisture. Exterior surfaces don't usually get a steel trowel finish so it's not an issue. There is no advantage and a lot of risk in using air entrained concrete inside.
Also I was disappointed years ago using fiber reinforcement on my garage floor because the fibers tend to wear off the surface somehow and create little dust bunny bits of fuzz constantly.
 

JWILLIE1977

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Bill, be very careful using air entrained concrete with a steel trowel finish especially in warm weather. If the concrete surface gets sealed up too soon air and bleed water get trapped and pool under the surface causing de-lamination. You only need need air entrained concrete for exterior applications, which are subject to moisture. Exterior surfaces don't usually get a steel trowel finish so it's not an issue. There is no advantage and a lot of risk in using air entrained concrete inside.
For sure this!!

Also . . .did I see that the OP wasn't going to saw cut? Didn't see the size of the slab posted. While slabs with no saw cuts can be done, they aren't common them in residential/light commercial construction in my area. I would talk to a slab engineer. . And your ready mix supplier. Shrinkage reducing admixes, water reducers and a low(er) w/cm ratio mix can all contribute positively. Would want to make sure your contractor knows how to handle such mix.

To answer the original inquiry, I have only seen the GFRP used in slab on grade situations. All 3 slabs were exterior, agricultural use slabs. The design engineer is happy with the performance over the past 24-30 months with no issues. Zip ties were used on 1 slab, wire on the other two.
 
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billconner

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I was joking about the zip ties. LOL

I'm building garage on stem walls starting when ground thaws in spring, solo, so I have lots of time to rethink slab details, or options. I've been reading about slab on ground houses being built without concrete. Can't figure how it could work in an unheated garage....yet.
 

liljestrom

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I used the fiberglass rebar on 2ft x 2ft grid on a 28 x 50 garage slab. The best pro is....lightweight. East to transport when you need to move the bundle, slide or tweak a wired together grid, etc. Other pros: it won't corrode Cons: can possibly float when pouring concrete, it will can destroy cutting blades and won't provide ufer ground
 

topp64

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We started using it about 4 years ago on residential or small jobs with no plan/specifications from an engineer. Went from using it on 2 or 3 jobs the first year to probably using GFRP 50% now. I don’t know how long it’s been around but as the price of steel has shot up, so has the use of GFRP. Cost is obviously the driving factor behind the recent popularity of GFRP but it’s being pushed hard as an alternative to steel with the benefits of being non corrosive, having over twice the tensile strength as steel, and its production leaves a much lower carbon footprint than the production of steel.

From a lot of experience working with it, I’ll give you my take on GFRP. ——Pros: 1) It’s lightweight so it’s much easier to handle than steel. 2) It can be cut faster than steel. 3) It can be cut using a variety of tools - chop saw/quicky saw, bolt cutters, hand saw, skill saw/circular saw. 4) When you add the 3 pros above it equates to having your mat laid out and ready to tie in less time than it would take for steel. ——Cons: 1) Gloves needed when handling. Some brands have a rough texture that I won’t touch without gloves, others are smooth but you get fragments when you cut them. You can see the difference in texture in the photos below. 2) When drilling and doweling into another slab or wall you will need steel. 3) Unlike deformed steel rebar that helps prevent movement between rods tied together, when parallel at splices or at perpendicular intersections, GFRP will slide where tied together. This relates to the different types of texture. The rough abrasive type is like that to create friction and prevent movement between two pieces. The type that has a smooth texture actually resembles deformed rebar with raised ridges to prevent movement. Both types fail in preventing movement. 4) It’s lightweight and is flexible. The advantage of being lightweight and easy to handle means its nearly impossible to keep from moving when you’re pouring. It gets pushed against forms and bends from the concrete coming out of the chute.

Rough texture
Fiberglass-Rebar.jpg

Smooth texture
GFRP-Construction-Materials.jpg


In my opinion it’s overrated and I wouldn’t use it on anything of my own. I did quite a bit of research on it a few years ago and at that time it was said that it could never be used on anything structural because when tested for its ability to withstand heat from fire, it melted and failed long before the required time. So now, just three years later, a growing number bridges are being designed with GFRP. How does that happen? Maybe by changing the requirements so that GFRP now passes?
 

Jlarson

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We've used it on water/wastewater and chemical projects and repairs for the obvious corrosion advantages. Nothing really calls to me to use it anywhere else.

 

58Yeoman

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Thanks for the education on something that I've never heard of. Of course, I don't do ANY concrete work myself, it's all hired out.
 
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