Apex Phillips Bits question

[Krause]

I recently purchased a few Apex Phillips bits and wanted to see the difference between their Limited Clearance and normal versions.

The limited clearance ones look similar to most bits, like a #1 Phillips will have a thinner machined down barrel for the upper part like this:

Apex 446-1X

The "normal" version isn't machined down and just uses the entire width of the 1/4" bit even on a #0 or #1 Phillips bit like this one:

Apex 440-1X

Anyone know the benefits of the latter? Are they stronger in any appreciable way? Is it a cost savings thing to not have to have an additional step to machine it down? Are there actually screws that take #0 or #1 drivers but are wide enough to take those wider bits?

Trying to decide which are better to have.

Thanks!

 

[measuredtwice]

The name describes the purpose of the "limited clearance" bit. It will also work when you don't have a limited clearance, of course. You are correct to think that machining it down so far will affect the strength.

There are also ACR versions of both.

They are all good to have. What are you working on?

The limited clearance ones look similar to most bits

Actually the reduced or limited clearance bits will be machined down more than most bits.

All of these are #2 size but some have different profiles.

Top Row:
Wera 071011 (Czech) —Stainless
Wera 072072 (Czech)
Wera 134920 (Czech)
Wera 346281 (Czech)
Wera 135009 (Czech)
Wera 380156 (Czech)
Wera 056662 (Czech) —ACR
Snap-On SDM222IRB (USA) —ACR
Apex 440-2X (USA)
Apex 446-215 (USA)

Bottom Row:
Wiha 71102 (Vietnam)
Wiha 76502 (Vietnam)
Felo 10317 (Germany) —TIN
Felo 52471 (Germany) —TIN
Felo 30205 (Germany)
Vessel 2H (Japan)
PB Swiss C6-190.2 (Switzerland)
Montana Brand (USA)
Dewalt (China)
Generic (China)

 

[RTM]

I’ve needed limited clearance for projects in the past, and just grabbed a regular P1. Holes recessed open plastic bodies being one. Occasionally I have traveled with only a bit kit, so this may be one to look for.

 

[DHCrocks]

that might be something like the Bosch PH2R bits, (#2 reduced). They are Phillips #2 but it is slimmer in profile. These are actually my favorite type of #2 bits. They seem to fit most screws better as they seat deeper into the screw and have a tighter fit.

 

[toolchaser]

I only have experience with the #2 Phillips, but everythingn DHCrocks posted is correct, I make sure there's at least one in the handle storage of all my hex bit drivers

 

[RoundedNut]

Ya, the reduced shaft tips seem to fit better in screws, and regular tips only go into the screw recess 1/3 to 1/2 anyways so the rest serves no purpose. Tips always break at the recess entrance so there is little if any increase in strength from all the extra metal in regular bits.

The benefit of reduced shafts is greater with longer bits, and this line from Vessel are my favorite PH bits:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B0751KWKF1/

Full 1/4" hex shaft bits do serve a purpose however as they are stiffer and better able to handle abuse in the longer lengths. As well, they offer the option of double ended bits and more secure holders with the Japanese bit standard:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B0751JZD19/

 

[Krause]

The name describes the purpose of the "limited clearance" bit. It will also work when you don't have a limited clearance, of course. You are correct to think that machining it down so far will affect the strength.

There are also ACR versions of both.

They are all good to have. What are you working on?



Actually the reduced or limited clearance bits will be machined down more than most bits.

All of these are #2 size but some have different profiles.

Top Row:
Wera 071011 (Czech) —Stainless
Wera 072072 (Czech)
Wera 134920 (Czech)
Wera 346281 (Czech)
Wera 135009 (Czech)
Wera 380156 (Czech)
Wera 056662 (Czech) —ACR
Snap-On SDM222IRB (USA) —ACR
Apex 440-2X (USA)
Apex 446-215 (USA)

Bottom Row:
Wiha 71102 (Vietnam)
Wiha 76502 (Vietnam)
Felo 10317 (Germany) —TIN
Felo 52471 (Germany) —TIN
Felo 30205 (Germany)
Vessel 2H (Japan)
PB Swiss C6-190.2 (Switzerland)
Montana Brand (USA)
Dewalt (China)
Generic (China)

That’s very informative thank you! My main goal was to replace the lower quality bits in the handle of one of my multi tools that is used mainly for general computer tech/electronics work (machines/networking panels, etc).

The tool is really nice but the bits were garbage, it came with Phillips #0,1 and 3, 1/4” slotted (perfect size for electrical outlet/multimedia plug wall panels) and 2 1/4” hex socket network punch down bits. The Phillips bits it came with were closer to the reduced clearance bits but as you pointed out, not quite to that extent.

Just trying to figure the best ones to keep on it, and probably swap out either the #0 or #3 for a #2 which I would use more. Hell T15 torx is even becoming one of my most used since HP started using them in place of #2 Phillips. Was going to keep spare commonly used (but to a lesser extent) bits in a bit holder in my bag. I was actually looking at those PB Swiss but holders that you have in that picture too!

In my home toolbox I wouldn’t worry too much about it and just get both, but for this purpose I need to be a bit more frugal in my choice of what to bring so I’m trying to decide between the Apex limited clearance or the normal which are the full 1/4” width. I’m leaning toward the limited since the clearance might help and I can’t imagine the extra strength will matter much to me since as someone else mentioned most of the time it’s the tip portion that’s inserted into the screw that will take all the damage.

 

[KnurledNut]

One of the biggest uses of reduced phillips are drywall screw guns.

 

[measuredtwice]

That’s very informative thank you! My main goal was to replace the lower quality bits in the handle of one of my multi tools that is used mainly for general computer tech/electronics work (machines/networking panels, etc).

The tool is really nice but the bits were garbage, it came with Phillips #0,1 and 3, 1/4” slotted (perfect size for electrical outlet/multimedia plug wall panels) and 2 1/4” hex socket network punch down bits. The Phillips bits it came with were closer to the reduced clearance bits but as you pointed out, not quite to that extent.

Just trying to figure the best ones to keep on it, and probably swap out either the #0 or #3 for a #2 which I would use more. Hell T15 torx is even becoming one of my most used since HP started using them in place of #2 Phillips. Was going to keep spare commonly used (but to a lesser extent) bits in a bit holder in my bag. I was actually looking at those PB Swiss but holders that you have in that picture too!

In my home toolbox I wouldn’t worry too much about it and just get both, but for this purpose I need to be a bit more frugal in my choice of what to bring so I’m trying to decide between the Apex limited clearance or the normal which are the full 1/4” width. I’m leaning toward the limited since the clearance might help and I can’t imagine the extra strength will matter much to me since as someone else mentioned most of the time it’s the tip portion that’s inserted into the screw that will take all the damage.

The limited clearance should be fine for your purpose. The limited clearance bits from Apex USA are nice. PB Swiss is nice but pricey. I don't think they make a limited clearance bit though. You might also look at bits from Felo Germany. They're much cheaper than PB Swiss and they do make reduced Phillips.

 

[Indexmill]

One of the biggest uses of reduced phillips are drywall screw guns.

Why?

 

[HenryAZ]

that might be something like the Bosch PH2R bits, (#2 reduced). They are Phillips #2 but it is slimmer in profile. These are actually my favorite type of #2 bits. They seem to fit most screws better as they seat deeper into the screw and have a tighter fit.

The are slimmer, and do fit better, but the "R" in the name is for Robertson, not reduced. They do both phillips and square head.

 

[Krause]

Do Apex bits have any sort of rust prevention in their finish or is it essentially just raw steel and needs immediate oil coatings?

 

[KnurledNut]

Why?

They fit better and some companies like Grabber have their screws designed for them, and ship the reduced bit with them.

They have a more positive grip on the screw, which means less dropped screws for manual feed guns and straighter installation.

The reduced diameter helps them cam out cleaner once the depth setter is reached.

They are also easier to replace as the flats can be grabbed with pliers (sometimes your fingers) inside the nose cone.

They also work better at removing previously mudded screws.

The reduced tip is often equated with being weaker. Definitely not the case, and depending on application, will outlast a regular phillips.

Regardless of brand, most (not all) of them are actually referred to as drywall bits.

 

[DHCrocks]

The are slimmer, and do fit better, but the "R" in the name is for Robertson, not reduced. They do both phillips and square head.

No PH2R is Phillips 2 Reduced

You are thinking of P2R2 which is Phillips 2 Robertson 2 combination.

 

[measuredtwice]

From the Apex catalog:

ADVANTAGE OF REDUCED DIAMETER BITS:
Reduced diameter bits are ideal for driving screws
below the surface of drywall.

Do Apex bits have any sort of rust prevention in their finish or is it essentially just raw steel and needs immediate oil coatings?

I've never thought about it. They're dark but that could be from the heat treat.

Felo offers titanium nitride coated Phillips and reduced Phillips. There are examples in my photo. It can change the dimensions slightly and I don't think they compensated for it. I think they just put TIN on their regular bits.

Makita Gold bits have some sort of plating on them. Some are made in Japan. I think some might be made in China.

Chromed bits are usually cheap imports.

PB Swiss has a plasma coating. It will wear off.

Btw.... If you buy German slotted bits make sure to pay attention to the thickness. For the 6.5 mm (~1/4") bits a lot of German companies use a thickness of 1.2mm whereas 1.0 is common in the USA. Felo has 6.5mm slotted available with both 1.2mm and 1.0mm thickness.

PB Swiss 6.25mm will have a thickness of 1.0mm.

 

[HenryAZ]

No PH2R is Phillips 2 Reduced

You are thinking of P2R2 which is Phillips 2 Robertson 2 combination.

My mistake. I've never seen the PH2R bit. The P2R2 is also reduced for phillips, however. At first I thought is was simply a reduced phillips only, until I learned the Bosch code and took a close look at it.