Approved Paved Parking Question

[p00p]

Has anyone encountered an ordinance that has authority to determine what is "Approved Paved Parking" ?

For instance; If you have an existing paved driveway that goes up to the garage & the garage has a thru 2 car garage door in the back, but the area behind the garage is dirt/some grass, & you were to make that area behind the garage continue with the front driveway, would that need "approval" ? I am uncertain if the front driveway was "approved" at the time of being put in place, but does that fall under a preapproval process? I gave a call to the ordinance department, but wasn't able to reach someone as of yet. I'm curious of what others have for input.

Property is roughly 150' by 250'.

 

[mz44]

In my area they are concerned with the impervious surface area and water runoff. Municipalities will allow a certain percentage of the property to be covered with an impervious surface. That may be why they want to "approve a paved parking area"

 

[Viper98912]

In my opinion, it would still probably fall as a large enough project that a permit for that section is required. But it all depends on your local ordinances

 

[FMB4]

Wait until you hear from your "ordinance department" before you do anything.

 

[p00p]

Wait until you hear from your "ordinance department" before you do anything.

i'd rather not do any spending as the area behind the garage has been used as parking for an actively used vehicle for a few years. Just recently, someone ruffled feathers & is causing unnecessary concerns. IMO, a vehicle parked behind the garage is safer than being outfront where it could be easier for someone to vandalize/steal it.

 

[CombatNinja]

I get it. So you just want to keep parking in your dirt patch in your backyard but someone complained and you think you can address the complaints by paving the dirt patch? I'm not quite sure you were getting the real gist of their complaints.

 

[Viper98912]

So in other words, your neighbor next to you doesn't like looking at your car in the back, when they sit in their backyard or look out the window.

Sounds like you need to put up a solid wood fence rather than put down asphalt. Having asphalt and wagging your finger at them saying "hey it was approved" won't make your neighborly relationship any better.

(And better yet, if the neighbor doesn't like it, they are the ones who really should be putting up the fence)

 

[PoorUB]

You can ask all you want here, but your codes are ceratainly different from many of us. Many of us live in areas that you can do pretty much do what ever you want, to the the other extreme where they can not put a potted plant on thier front porch, so asking here is fairly fruitless.

 

[wssix99]

the area behind the garage has been used as parking for an actively used vehicle for a few years. Just recently, someone ruffled feathers & is causing unnecessary concerns.

I can't imagine why. People do this all the time.



BTW - You probably need to check with your local zoning department on this one. There shouldn't be any specific law against paving your back yard but I would imagine that the zoning ordinances would be the most likely place where people would limit this sort of thing.

If they say, "No" to paving, you can always put in a geo grid - but having a car outside all the time will probably still ruffle feathers. If you need another garage, I'm sure there are folks around here, who can help with that!

 

[jimindm]

Depending on the car that you store on your dirt patch, there might be an ordinance that any inoperable cars need to be stored inside.

I have seen people have to produce documentation showing the vehicle is plated and insured, then it has to start and move.

Every one has that neighbor close. There is usually one that is the complainer, and one that every one is complaining about.

 

[FredWanaker]

generally most states are concerned about oil and fuel dripping into dirt and getting into the ground water. As such some will require non-permeable parking under cars. Some places will limit the width of the driveway but not length. If the surface area reaches a certain amount they will require oil traps for the run off. That is what we have here. Here in my city they don't allow a 2nd driveway unless it is an extension of the primary driveway. Those into back yards thru a side yard are grandfathered in however. Your situation is unique. I would wait on the code folks to speak.

Keep in mind that many ordinances have grandfather clauses, so someone who started collecting cars in the 1960's gets ignored while someone who wants to start now will get told no.

 

[reader2580]

Why is a paved surface any better than dirt if fluids are dripping from a vehicle? The fluids from a paved parking area will most likely get washed off onto the grass/dirt.

I go to big box stores after it has rained and constantly see streams of oily water flowing into the storm drains. That is probably far worse than whatever fluids might come off of an old parked vehicle at a house.

 

[p00p]

I get it. So you just want to keep parking in your dirt patch in your backyard but someone complained and you think you can address the complaints by paving the dirt patch? I'm not quite sure you were getting the real gist of their complaints.

if standards were not moving goal posts, the unknown complainer might be on to something. Not the case. I'm not going to snoop on others properties, but it's impossible to ignore that other houses don't all have a paved driveway in front of there house. It's about 50/50 to see a paved or gravel patched driveway in my immediate area. My intent is to just satisfy the ordinance at the least expense from my pocket. I don't hoard junk, retain in-op vehicles, nor am I disrespectful to my fellow neighbors. I keep to myself.

 

[PoorUB]

Code on our area says that any vehcle parked outside needs to be on a "paved" driveway. It can be paved with anything from gravel to paving stones to asphalt to concrete, just not dirt and grass.

 

[p00p]

So in other words, your neighbor next to you doesn't like looking at your car in the back, when they sit in their backyard or look out the window.

Sounds like you need to put up a solid wood fence rather than put down asphalt. Having asphalt and wagging your finger at them saying "hey it was approved" won't make your neighborly relationship any better.

(And better yet, if the neighbor doesn't like it, they are the ones who really should be putting up the fence)

Of the years being out back doing yardwork, bbq'ing, & sitting out on in my yard; I have yet to see those folks maximize there yards to that extent. I am confident to say that I am the only one that actually services/maintains my own landscaping my own self. Everyone else has a lawncare/snow removal service.
To put a privacy fence up to span the distance needed would cost more than having pavement put down. Already obtained those quotes. Also, a privacy fence requires not only a permit, but also require the surrounding neighbors to agree to it.
I'd happily be in favor of them paying & putting up a privacy fence, especially since they all have one or more four legged friends to benefit from it rather than have on there shock collar...

 

[reader2580]

Code on our area says that any vehcle parked outside needs to be on a "paved" driveway. It can be paved with anything from gravel to paving stones to asphalt to concrete, just not dirt and grass.

Same in my city. We have it even worse as any building permit other than something like a roof triggers a requirement for a hard surface driveway (not dirt or gravel/stone) if you don't already have one. I had to install an asphalt driveway as I needed a building permit for renovations. I bet a lot of people in the city skip the building permit because they don't want to put in a paved driveway.

 

[p00p]

Why is a paved surface any better than dirt if fluids are dripping from a vehicle? The fluids from a paved parking area will most likely get washed off onto the grass/dirt.

I go to big box stores after it has rained and constantly see streams of oily water flowing into the storm drains. That is probably far worse than whatever fluids might come off of an old parked vehicle at a house.

it's not a classic, high end car or a beater vehicle, but the chances of it being stolen is high given the desirability. Had a few alerts pop on the cameras over the years when I had to leave it out front due to unforeseen circumstances. Scary!

 

[PoorUB]

Same in my city. We have it even worse as any building permit other than something like a roof triggers a requirement for a hard surface driveway (not dirt or gravel/stone) if you don't already have one. I had to install an asphalt driveway as I needed a building permit for renovations. I bet a lot of people in the city skip the building permit because they don't want to put in a paved driveway.

Your city is attempting to force everyone to put in a paved driveway.

I have a friend that lives in a rural HOA. They are pretty loose and forgiving, but they are considering forcing paved driveways. Most have them, but a few don't and they are not kept up. Gravel would be find if maintained, but the gravel drives they are fighting are rutted and full of weeds and grass.

 

[Viper98912]

Of the years being out back doing yardwork, bbq'ing, & sitting out on in my yard; I have yet to see those folks maximize there yards to that extent. I am confident to say that I am the only one that actually services/maintains my own landscaping my own self. Everyone else has a lawncare/snow removal service.
To put a privacy fence up to span the distance needed would cost more than having pavement put down. Already obtained those quotes. Also, a privacy fence requires not only a permit, but also require the surrounding neighbors to agree to it.
I'd happily be in favor of them paying & putting up a privacy fence, especially since they all have one or more four legged friends to benefit from it rather than have on there shock collar...

So I guess we need a little more backstory then. Who did the neighbors complain to? Are the people they complained to trying to force you to do something?

 

[u2slow]

My bylaws are about extra vehicles being visible... not about what they are parked on. Ideally it means in a garage, but the most common fix is a tarp and/or fencing.

 

[FMB4]

Again, wait until you hear from your "ordinance department" before you do anything.

 

[reader2580]

Your city is attempting to force everyone to put in a paved driveway.

I have a friend that lives in a rural HOA. They are pretty loose and forgiving, but they are considering forcing paved driveways. Most have them, but a few don't and they are not kept up. Gravel would be find if maintained, but the gravel drives they are fighting are rutted and full of weeds and grass.

I think it is more about protecting the paved street from damage. A dirt or gravel driveway can wash out where it meets the paved road. The base of the road starts to get washed out too and then the street starts to break up.

The city did not require me to pave the entire length of my driveway so it doesn’t seem to be about aesthetics necessarily.

 

[Dagny]

It's your land nobodies business.

 

[jetnow1]

When I built my garage I had to get a variance for it due to lot coverage. They specifically did not want the driveway
extended to the garage as it would have meant even more lot coverage. Since I built the garage for storage and to
work on by vehicles, not daily use it did not bother me.

 

[flat350]

Most towns/villages around here have a website that has all the info you need on village ordinances and permits required. I have neighbors that can be a real PITA so I'm well read on what I can and can't do, and the one neighbor doesn't like some of what I have done that is well within the approved village ordinances, permitted and approved.

 

[p00p]

So I guess we need a little more backstory then. Who did the neighbors complain to? Are the people they complained to trying to force you to do something?

the enforcement never reveals "whom" complained. The party that complained, got the local ordinance official's attention. What is trying to be done is to have my assets controlled/rid of after a long time of not having any complaints in the past. Nothings changed on my part. If anything I've improved the grass's health over the years.

 

[Jinks]

To put a privacy fence up to span the distance needed would cost more than having pavement put down. Already obtained those quotes. Also, a privacy fence requires not only a permit, but also require the surrounding neighbors to agree to it.

Put up a "decorative" fence around a smaller area covering your parking, or plant shrubs that enclose your parking area. The smaller area fencing may require permitting, but I doubt shrubbery would. Make the enclosed area large enough to turn around in, & maybe even include an outside table/lounge area. Be smarter than the complainer...........

 

[Viper98912]

the enforcement never reveals "whom" complained. The party that complained, got the local ordinance official's attention. What is trying to be done is to have my assets controlled/rid of after a long time of not having any complaints in the past. Nothings changed on my part. If anything I've improved the grass's health over the years.

Ah ok, so yes, the neighbor complained and now you have code enforcement asking you questions.

Honestly, I would say ask the code enforcement guys what your options are; they would know best and it would appear like you're "trying" to work with them and follow the rules. I would think something like a small simple privacy fence would do, or some shrubs like someone else above mentioned. For the fence, I don't think you'd need to hire it out, you could buy a simple DIY vinyl fence and put it in yourself, or buy some wooden posts and build one? It probably doesn't need to be very long, just enough to cover your car out of sight of the complainant. Ask the code enforcement guys what's the minimum length needed to satisfy the requirement.

 

[p00p]

Put up a "decorative" fence around a smaller area covering your parking, or plant shrubs that enclose your parking area. The smaller area fencing may require permitting, but I doubt shrubbery would. Make the enclosed area large enough to turn around in, & maybe even include an outside table/lounge area. Be smarter than the complainer...........

Once the weather comes back around (Spring of 2022), I am going to incorporate some more organic foliage using a few arborvitaes. Even such organic planting has some restrictions based on my reading of the ordinance criteria, but for what I'll be doing should not put me in any violations. Based on my interpretation, I'd have to basically plant a forestry of them (not going to that extreme lol). For achieving good foliage & keeping the area they will be planted in the property aesthetically pleasing, staggering 20 should do it. Just need to find that tub of elbow grease to lube up that spade shovel come next year.

 

[p00p]

Ah ok, so yes, the neighbor complained and now you have code enforcement asking you questions.

Honestly, I would say ask the code enforcement guys what your options are; they would know best and it would appear like you're "trying" to work with them and follow the rules. I would think something like a small simple privacy fence would do, or some shrubs like someone else above mentioned. For the fence, I don't think you'd need to hire it out, you could buy a simple DIY vinyl fence and put it in yourself, or buy some wooden posts and build one? It probably doesn't need to be very long, just enough to cover your car out of sight of the complainant. Ask the code enforcement guys what's the minimum length needed to satisfy the requirement.

That line of communication is exactly what I'm trying to open with the code enforcement guy. I'm not hard to talk to & always try to understand the situation & respect it... Even though my looks may appear I'm a PO'd country farmer guy. That's what my friend tells me lol

 

[Viper98912]

That line of communication is exactly what I'm trying to open with the code enforcement guy. I'm not hard to talk to & always try to understand the situation & respect it... Even though my looks may appear I'm a PO'd country farmer guy. That's what my friend tells me lol

Do you walk around in blue overalls, no shirt, and no shoes, jumping out of your rusted 1988 Chevy pickup truck, often?

 

[p00p]

Do you walk around in blue overalls, no shirt, and no shoes, jumping out of your rusted 1988 Chevy pickup truck, often?

haha
I have the northern country look when I'm out on the property doing stuff. Jeans with a wide leather belt, duluth shirt jac, work boots & usually carrying a wrench.

 

[LOW1]

It depends on your local ordinance. Some limit the percentage and location of paved coverage while also prohibiting parking “on the grass.”

And logic and common sense have little applicability to zoning type ordinances.

 

[Viper98912]

haha
I have the northern country look when I'm out on the property doing stuff. Jeans with a wide leather belt, duluth shirt jac, work boots & usually carrying a wrench.

Yea, that look does seem fairly "don't talk me"

Put on some sandals and hold a cold iced tea in your hand instead

 

[haveissues]

the enforcement never reveals "whom" complained. The party that complained, got the local ordinance official's attention. What is trying to be done is to have my assets controlled/rid of after a long time of not having any complaints in the past. Nothings changed on my part. If anything I've improved the grass's health over the years.

If it were me I would find out from the code enforcement person what your options are then read your towns bylaws to make sure what they are telling you is accurate. Once you are sure what your options are I would pick the one the neighbor that complained would find the least attractive. If you want to plant trees for your benefit great but I sure would not do it for theirs.

 

[FredWanaker]

Why is a paved surface any better than dirt if fluids are dripping from a vehicle? The fluids from a paved parking area will most likely get washed off onto the grass/dirt.

I go to big box stores after it has rained and constantly see streams of oily water flowing into the storm drains. That is probably far worse than whatever fluids might come off of an old parked vehicle at a house.

lots of those storm drains at the commercial parking lots, airports etc have special traps for oil and grease etc.. Some use holding ponds.

If it were me I would find out from the code enforcement person what your options are then read your towns bylaws to make sure what they are telling you is accurate. Once you are sure what your options are I would pick the one the neighbor that complained would find the least attractive. If you want to plant trees for your benefit great but I sure would not do it for theirs.

brilliant. Retaliate. That just makes the world such a fun place to live. Hurt those who want to live by the rules. I'll stop there.

 

[driftpin]

I've worked as a planner and a zoning plans processor. Bottom line, "comply with code." Whatever that may be, that's how to end things. Your AHJ website should have links to building codes and zoning codes. Municode and American Legal Publishing are two databases one or the other of-which contain your zoning code. First find out your zoning, and reference your requirements from there.

Common regulations codified as ordinances are for permeability (impermeability as a %), materials allowed to be used, setbacks from property lines, foliage/vegetation, lighting, signage (someone trying to operate a 'fix-it' shop or mechanic's services in a residential neighborhood, where such signage is prohibited, and probably that business is prohibited too).

Restrictions on inoperable vehicles, unregistered/uninsured vehicles, vehicles on jackstands, vehicles partially-disassembled, missing parts, and similar are often addressed in the ordinances.

You can ask the zoning official for a zoning determination letter, which gives you a legal interpretation of particular questions you may have. Speaking with a planner to discuss what you propose to do, and accompanied on a to-scale site plan will often allow you to proceed with whatever permitting you need to do. I suggest you do NOT spend any $ until you have the permits in-hand for what you propose to accomplish.

 

[Jagmandave]

So OP, your location is not the one posted under your avatar? Cause that location doesn't seem to match the drawing you did....

 

[p00p]

So OP, your location is not the one posted under your avatar? Cause that location doesn't seem to match the drawing you did....

it's close enough that a walk of the neighborhood would get ya to the location.

 

[haveissues]

brilliant. Retaliate. That just makes the world such a fun place to live. Hurt those who want to live by the rules. I'll stop there.

Please. If someone wants to dictate how their neighbors use their properties move to an HOA and fine each other for petty nonsense. Leave the rest of us alone and worry about your own property.