Aprilaire 800 installation?

[AntonLargiader]

I'm pretty tired of using portable humidifiers and it seems that the Aprilaire 800 is a very well regarded unit. Our HVAC provider sells them along with a Trane unit that they say is also made by Aprilaire.

They want $2150 to install one which seems pretty high to me. We have a fairly small house (maybe 900 SF downstairs and 650 upstairs with separate systems) and we'd only get humidification on one floor for that $2150.

My first concern is the water quality. We have a well, with a softener/neutralizer that uses a media tank filled with calcite pellets. We do get sediment residue on sinks and so forth. Would we need an RO filter ahead of the humidifier?

The other of course is the cost. For such small areas I don't see this being cost effective. Is there a better solution? The 800 seems like overkill.

Downstairs: heat pump with gas
Upstairs: heat pump with strip heaters
New Trane systems in 2014 with XL824 stats on both floors.

 

[csp]

General Air 1137

 

[AntonLargiader]

My impression of wet mat humidifiers is that they very quickly scale up and stop working. Is this one somehow much better?

 

[tomroblee]

https://www.aprilaire.com/whole-house-products/humidifier/model-800

I don't have any personal experience with this humidifier. The literature shows that it is a steam humidifier, and it takes a lot of energy to turn water into steam. The instructions shows that you need to replace the "canister" ($115 @) once a season. Several Amazon reviews suggest that the canister must be replaced much more often. Several of the Amazon reviews discuss installation costs and DIY installation. I imagine that the cost of professional installation would depend on how difficult it is to get a good water supply, a drain line, and adequate electrical power to the location where the humidifier is installed.

 

[DieselNut88]

I have a older aprilaire unit on my furnace. 1500 sq ft. House It is fed with softened water. I dont have any problems. I changed the mat every couple seasons. The commercial building i work in has 2 commercial style units like that. They are fairly trouble free. They run 24/7 set a 50% humidity. We change the canister about every 2 years. That seems like overkill for a small house, but if the evaporative ones wont work that is the only option.

 

[csp]

My impression of wet mat humidifiers is that they very quickly scale up and stop working. Is this one somehow much better?

What's your idea of "quickly"? Mine gets a new mat every 2-3 years and our well water does leave some mineral deposits on faucets, showerheads etc.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I'm glad to hear that it's so long-lasting. I was thinking it would have to be replaced several times per year with our water. I think it's a residue from the Calcite pellets more than the minerals in the water itself that we are experiencing, but maybe not.

 

[1jeepfan]

I was just quoted $400 for installing an Aprilaire system.

 

[brewchief]

I would install an Aprilaire 600A on the downstairs unit, make sure it's fed with hot water.

If by chance it can't keep up then consider a second one for the upper unit but I doubt you will need it.

You want the Auto unit with the Humidistat that can bring the blower on to humidify without a call for heat.

Expect to replace the water panel once a year, if you have real bad water you might need to change it twice but that's rare.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I was just quoted $400 for installing an Aprilaire system.

Which type? Seems the 800 would be easier to plumb into the ductwork than the 600 but it would need heavier electrical service and costs a lot more up front.

Just for those who aren't familiar with the products:
600: bypass, wet mat, 120V, $10-ish replacement panels
800: steam injection, best with 240V, $65 replacement canister

 

[Trey T]

I have the 800 installed beginning of the season and here are the costs/time

1. $200 in supplies for plumbing (non-corrosive material), electrical (dedicated line to breaker box w/ fused disconnect), SPDT relay for Nest t-stat control, and humidity controller to shut-off unit if no fan.
2. 3hrs for electrical install (mine was extremely difficult; had to run line from detach garage to 2nd floor attic)
3. 2hrs for water line
4. 3hrs for system/unit install
5. Aprilaire 800 unit cost me $655 shipped (wholesale price per local HVAC suppliers is $700+)

If you assume that the labor is $75-100/hr (electrician, plumber, and HVAC), then the installation should cost you about $800.

Bottom line, the fair bid for the job is $1500, depend on the market. My tip: you got a ton of room for negotiation.

 

[justinjoyal]

The contractor(s) needs to make some profit as well.

Assuming a fair bid of 1500$ based on... nothing ? We haven't seen anything...


BTW I'd go for the GA 1137 as well if possible. Excellent suggestion from csp.

 

[Trey T]

My impression of wet mat humidifiers is that they very quickly scale up and stop working. Is this one somehow much better?

It's the best technology available for residential. Is it efficient? that's a debatable topic because the air quality, furnace efficiency, energy uses, and water usage all have an impact by the type of humidifier you use. I did a lot of research not only on the technology but also operation-and-maintenance, and it's a good combination to operate with gas or electric heater.

Humidifier is intended for heating because relative humidity (RH) is a function of temperature (temp increase, RH decrease) and the best idea is to inject steam (vapor phase) while maintain air temp. The pass-thru does things oppositely and inefficiently, it introduces cold air (pass-thru) and in liquid phase.

Bottom line is that you get what you pay for.

 

[Trey T]

The contractor(s) needs to make some profit as well.

Assuming a fair bid of 1500$ based on... nothing ? We haven't seen anything...


BTW I'd go for the GA 1137 as well if possible. Excellent suggestion from csp.

Actually, I forgot about a helper/laborer which is about $400 (assuming $45/hr) added to the cost. $1900 is a fair bid and there's a lot of profit to be made. There are steps and misc (special water tap and controls) that were taken and isntalled that many techs will not offer. I highly doubt anybody will go above and beyond the job that I've taken for my system.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Since my thermostat (Trane XL824) has humidity control, the installation should be a bit simpler, right? After all, the stat knows when the fan is running. I know I will need to boost the fan-only blower speed, but I've been wanting to do that for a while. It barely moves anything.

I can run the power, and water is right there already.

The people who gave the $2150 quote are the people who installed the system. I know they are not the cheapest option. I have a customer with an HVAC business that I will also reach out to.

I have the 800 installed beginning of the season and here are the costs/time...

 

[Trey T]

No it's simpler to use the Aprilaire 800 humidistat (included). you'll need the additional relay ($15) as an intermediate switching device between the Trane t-stat and the Aprilaire 800.

I'm not here to debate about costs, it's my least of concerns. so if you're comfortable with the single bid, go for it.

 

[cstolten]

Aprilaire 800 is very easy to install if you have access to 220v power and water. I installed mine a few years back with less than $700 total invested. My house is 1,400 sq feet, and is on a well. I replace the canister at the beginning of the season every year. It does get full of scale. My understanding is that the unit is more efficient with hard water. The steam is created by electric current between two plates inside the canister. The hard water conducts better, and the unit will create steam faster.

The included controller works great. A nice feature is the temp sensor that is installed on the exterior of your house. It senses outdoor temp and adjusts steam to help keep condensation off your windows.

 

[mrpizza]

We install them for a lot less than that, but that depends on how far we have to go to get a water line and power. DO NOT use RO water for the 800, it won't make steam without the minerals in the water.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Talked to my local HVAC guy and spent some time reading over the manuals. I'm leaning toward the 800 for dead-simple installation. No ducts, simple water tap before the softener. For our basement it is super convenient.

The Trane stat has dry contacts so no relay should be needed. The Aprilaire instructions describe using the included humidistat as a means of aggregating fan/heat/humidity data and turning it into a dry contact but the XL824 already does all of that including frost control if I want it (I have an outdoor temp sensor). I'm not saying I wouldn't use the ADHC but the only reason I can see for using it would be as a backup humidity limiter.

The current draw settings are interesting: they are 11.5A or 16A, which normally correspond to the 80% maximum continuous draw allowed for 15A and 20A circuits, but Aprilaire specifies 20A and 25A circuits.

 

[Trey T]

Sounds like a simple install. I'm on a 240v 20A circuit with 16a setting. It's operating right under 10a. Haven't mess with it much after installed.

I didn't think much of the humidistat as a high limit switch but it might work.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I'm on a 240v 20A circuit with 16a setting. It's operating right under 10a.

Are you using the Model 63 ADMC modulating controller, or is that the consumption when it is simply on with an on/off controller?

Most people would never know what the actual consumption is...

 

[Trey T]

I didn't know the unit has modulating feature. My Nest t-stat controls it and it's just on/off.

I put ammeter a day after install while the system have been operating. Don't know why the consumption is so low (I have a hunch to why) but the system have been maintaining 40-50%RH fine.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Go to the nearest box store and buy a whole house humidifier for $120.00 and some change,and install it yourself.

 

[Trey T]

Go to the nearest box store and buy a whole house humidifier for $120.00 and some change,and install it yourself.

Yup, that's a low-cost alternative.

 

[firebirdparts]

I have an Aprilaire 800 and I am optimistic about it. I've had 4 direct steam humidifiers, and this one seems to have the best chance of lasting a while, if you consider lasting a while is periodic engine replacement (sort of like an air cooled Volkswagen).

I have one comment about installation. I found that with our water, the output on 110V was smaller than the heat loss using their supplied rubber hose uninsulated. So I had to convert it to 220V and insulate the rubber hose to get it going. Its performance will vary depending on your water, and I probably could have kickstarted it with salt if I wanted to.

It'll easily handle a house bigger than yours.

P.S. I got 2 years out of the replaceable piece ($80 on amazon)

P.P.S. it has a blowdown cycle that can vary automatically to control conductivity, so I think softened water would be very good for it. The canister might last a really long time on softened water. If I'm wrong, you can change it.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

We install them for a lot less than that, but that depends on how far we have to go to get a water line and power. DO NOT use RO water for the 800, it won't make steam without the minerals in the water.

^^^ This.^^^

Water itself does not conduct well. I tried to explain that to my old boss when he wanted me to tie into DI water to install similar arc steam generators for stability chambers. I ended up doing one his way just to prove it to him.

Tommy

 

[Renfrick]

Your right pure h2o is a insulator. It’s the impurities in it that conduct electricity


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