Arc Fault breakers tripping in the rain

[472scout]

Home: 2006 with Siemens breaker panel.

Last night after it had been raining for a few hours we lost power to two bedrooms.

I went outside and found two tripped AFCIs (Master bedroom and 2nd bedroom). Couldn't reset them. Noticed the bottom of the breaker box wasn't dry. Door doesn't have a seal?? Hmmm.

After it had stopped raining I removed the breaker cover panel. Wires from the breakers loop down and are touching the bottom of the box (NEC?). Bottom of the box is a mixture of standing water (1/32") and wet sloppy mud.

Wiped out the mud and water and called it day since it was now getting dark.

Plan for today:

Drink coffee so I can wake up.

Blow out the box with compressed air.

Investigate how water got in.
Add a seal to the door?

Unplug everything in the two rooms
Check outlets for heat damage

Remove wires from AFCIs:
- Inspect for insulation damage
- Confirm breakers will reset
- Check for shorts (continuity) between said wires and to ground

What else?

 

[472scout]

Panel

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You dont know if they tripped because of an Arc Fault or an overload.

Looks like those have an arc fault indicator. Did you look at that before resetting?

The water wont make them trip since theyre not GFCI.

 

[472scout]

Thanks for the help.

I unplugged everything in both bedrooms and turned off all the switches and the AFCIs still won't reset.

Here's a picture of the indicator light. It lit up amber. I may be mistaken, but it seems that means an arc fault. No lite would mean short circuit or over current.

https://www.downloads.siemens.com/d...aspx?pos=download&fct=getasset&id1=BTLV_47396

 

[yatg]

If you have any working AFCIs in the panel, swap one to determine if its the breaker or the wiring.

 

[472scout]

If you have any working AFCIs in the panel, swap one to determine if its the breaker or the wiring.

I do have a working AFCI, but there are two different AFCIs that won't reset.

Both breakers could have failed at the same time or thereabouts, but I'm thinking it's more likely that the two circuits have a wiring fault in common. Logical?

Once the wife is done cooking up a storm and doing laundry I'll take the cover off and see if the breakers will reset when disconnected.

 

[u2slow]

I'm blown away that breaker panels - especially ones with GFCI and AFCI breakers - are still allowed to be mounted outside.

 

[472scout]

I looked at my neighbor's breaker panel, it's the same model, and his does have a seal.

 

[Professor Fate]

Stupid question, but did you flip the AFCI breaker all the way off before you tried to reset it?

 

[472scout]

Sure did. Thanks.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I'm blown away that breaker panels - especially ones with GFCI and AFCI breakers - are still allowed to be mounted outside.

same. I've never met electronics that liked being wet.

 

[dave*99]

Those breakers look weathered. Change them and go from there. Crack one open and see what the insides look like. You may have other breakers getting tired if these look bad inside.

 

[472scout]

Got it figured it out. Several loose connections, a chafed wire, and a bad breaker. The AFCIs don't snap onto to the bus bar like I'm used to. They slip right off with two fingers.
I'm going to swap all three of them out with CAFCI.

 

[Norcal]

Is the panel overhead or underground service? Next question is there a hub or closure cap on top? The reason I ask is depending on the age of that panel there may be a missing gasket for the hub or cap allowing water to enter the enclosure, but some Siemens panels do not require a gasket due to the design.

 

[472scout]

It's underground. There is a cap on top with one screw in the middle. I'll pull it off and see what I've got.

 

[472scout]

Is there a code spec for wire to wire resistance (insulation)? Checking for shorts I had one pair at 35 megohm instead of infinity.

 

[nadogail]

Rain is a conductor, wet and electric are a bad combination.

 

[MikeF2316]

I'm blown away that breaker panels - especially ones with GFCI and AFCI breakers - are still allowed to be mounted outside.

I was shocked (haha, get it) the first time I saw outside mounted electrical panels on a TV show. There's a dry spot just on the other side of that wall for Pete's sake!

Outside mounted plumbing gets me too, but at least that's more understandable if there's no risk of freezing.