Architect Problems

[glentre]

I'm a newbie planning a three car garage,30 x 38, 13 ft ceiling, 9x8 doors, man door, 2x6 walls, 12/12 roof, storage room on second floor with dormers to convert to future living space. Location is Gloucester county in eastern Virginia.

I'm having problems finding an architect to select the structural elements of the building and to prepare the drawings required to obtain a local building permit. For approval, drawings must be signed by an architect or structural engineer licensed in Virginia. Not that there is a lack of qualified professionals but the ones I have contacted are all loaded with work, can't get to my project until a month or so or are very expensive.

I have used Sketchup to prepare the floor plan and elevations, all dimensioned properly. Plus, I have six pages of written notes specifying the items I want included in the plans such as foundation/stem wall type, slab construction, high lift door type, insulation etc. The first price we got was for $4,000 for the job. Using my already prepared info should not take a pro more than a day to do and perhaps two days on the outside so the $4k cost seems a bit unreasonable.

I have looked at some of the specialized on-line garage planning services who say they will prepare custom drawings from a customer's input, apparently for less than $1,000. Fifteen years ago, we used stock plans from a company in Florida to build our home and had no problems with approvals or with the contractor who used the plans to build it. I would greatly appreciate any comments from forum members who have used this type of service and whether they had a good experience or not. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you can give.

Glen

 

[readhead]

The plans you have prepared will probably be ok for the building department. Take your plans to a structural engineer to review the foundation and size the framing elements. Make sure you have a plat plan and submit. If there is anything they don't like they will let you know.

 

[wssix99]

I'm having problems finding an architect to select the structural elements of the building and to prepare the drawings required to obtain a local building permit. For approval, drawings must be signed by an architect or structural engineer licensed in Virginia. Not that there is a lack of qualified professionals but the ones I have contacted are all loaded with work, can't get to my project until a month or so or are very expensive.

What are you expecting? This is really good. (They may also be stretching the truth and it could be a two month lead time.) Architects and Engineers don't operate like Jiffy Lube. They need a backlog of work so they can work full time. 4 weeks isn't that bad.

Stay local. You haven't even gotten through the headaches of zoning, permitting, and inspections. A local architect can help you get through these things and will save you tons of money in the end - especially if this is your first time doing something like this and you are leading the job yourself.

How are you going to build this thing? Just wait until you try to get contractors to show up... There is a big shortage of them right now.

 

[bczygan]

ou want to build something?

Ha, ha, ha!

Sorry to hear it...

Bill (Designer, builder, etc.)

 

[bczygan]

Call some offices, and ask if they have a draftsman who will do some side work and a registered guy who will seal it.

 

[LXCam]

Well all though 4k seems unreasonable it may not be. Professional liability is damn expensive. I'm not a designer, I just provide oversight on large projects - conception thru completion, never been litigated against and mine is 34k a year. Residential is the most litigated segment of construction out there. Guess what I should say that is this is a set fee and he'll see you through the permitting process with as needed revisions, it may not be a bad price.

 

[Smoker]

I designed my 30x30 myself and had it drawn up by a friend in CAD. I then had a local structural PE review, modify as needed and stamp it for $400. City saw the stamps and approved them immediately. $4K is way too much. Truss design is typically covered by the truss manufacturer and included in their cost.

 

[Bopbop]

$4,000 dollars is not much when you are using a professional design engineer or architect. Typically that about 20 to 30 hours of work.
As a engineer I can tell you that the insurance we have to carry is one of our biggest expense. Yes I know of engineers and architects that moonlight and do the $00.00 dollars fees. They don't have insurance and the want be there if there is a problem.

 

[Kevin54]

First off, are you planning on building the garage yourself, or are you hiring a contractor to build it for you? If you are going to build it yourself, then ask the Building Department what you exactly need to get your building permit. In my case, it was just a sketch of where the building was going to be located at on the property to be sure the setback requirements were met. A sketch of the foundation noting the size of the foundation walls and the size of the footings, and a sketch of the building to make sure the height requirements were met. I never had to have an architect design a drawing, nor did I have to have my drawings stamped off by an architect.

What I did do was submit a set of drawings done in Sketch-up showing the size of the building in it's entirety. I also added dimensions in on top of things to make sure I was within the building envelope. I supplied a copy of my property description. I supplied an overhead shot (Google Earth) of my property and existing garage, I then took that copy and in Paint added lines of where the addition was going, along with the property line that I had the setback to worry about, and lastly I added a sheet describing the trusses and snow loads of the trusses I was using. All of this was then put in a small binder. The guy that issues the building permit was impressed. He said that a lot of contractors will bring in something scribbled out on a table napkin.

So first off....check to make sure that you either need, or do not need an architects seal of approval and a et or two of drawings. A lot of times the rules at the building department are just the legal rules set forth by the building committee and lawyers and pertain mainly to contractors, but for a DIY type of person, they sway away from the legal rules. If all building departments in all municipalities, towns, cities, etc required that every building over the size of a shed have an architects seal on it, then nothing would ever get done, and there wouldn't be enough architects to fill in to cover the workload.

You may be surprised as to what you can do as a DIY person when it comes to constructing a building. I passed everything with flying colors. Some of the stuff I did myself, or my neighbor and I did it, and other things were subbed out, but I had to answer for things if the inspector happened to ask.

And if you are going to act as a contractor yourself, familiarize yourself with the basics of building. Know how far your frostline is, if you have one. Know your stud spacing, know about your top plates and bottom plate, know you rafter spacing, know your floor joist spacing, and the other things that you need to know when it comes to a building whether you DIY or sub it out.

NOW.....if you are going to let a contractor handle the complete building of the garage, let him deal with the building department as far as getting a building permit, signed drawings, and so on. They know what they have to do in order to get a permit, and a lot of times they will draw up the building their self. The deal with this every day. Avoid a contractor that dumps all of the legwork in your lap right out of the starting gate. That is their job to be able to do that. What if some older lady wanted a garage built and didn't have a clue about anything? The contractor would have to do it.

And of course, I suppose you know about paying up front. There are a lot of good contractors out there, but a lot of fly-by-night'ers also. Don't pay in full up front, and a contractor shouldn't ask. He may ask for enough to cover his materials so he doesn't get burnt there. He may ask for a draw on Fridays to pay his help. And make sure it is built to your satisfaction.

Aside from all of that....Welcome to Garage Journal. I hope that when you get started that you start a build thread in the Gallery. And if you would, could you put your location in your profile? It helps to answer questions that you may have. No need for a city unless you want to put it in also, but just a state really helps. And you never know, you may have a friend on here that is close to you. We have members from all 50 states, and quite a few different countries. Thank you

 

[GSRinmyCRX]

4k is ridiculous for a garage. my architect quoted me 2 dollars a square foot for my house and ended up coming in under budget and his work is top notch. I think a garage shouldn't cost any more than that per square foot no matter where you are, especially since you have it all mapped out. maybe talk to your local contractors and see who they use to get things approved. a lot of times a individual will go to a contractor first to get something built and they have to back track to an architect or structural engineer to get the plans. even your code enforcer might have some suggestions.

Levi

 

[aptdweller]

I agree with what has been said before, but I do want to add one more thing:

Small jobs are particularly unattractive to professionals. The administration, meetings/calls, and everything else that isn't necessarily billed is almost the same for something much larger. It depends on the practices in your area, but most likely the margins are much smaller.

My advice would be to find as small of a design firm as you can. They will be the most willing to do this sort of work. Personally, I think that the $4k quote is the old "I don't want this job, but I'll take it if you have more money than sense".

 

[Jo Diesel]

I went to my lumber yard and they helped me spec the stud spacing and the rafters and sill plates for free and I drew it up on graft paper to scale and made a couple of coppies and zoning said it was fine

 

[tfalk]

Gloucester... they're always from Gloucester....

Sorry, had to go there

 

[forAK]

Craigslist...........

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/sks/5706421917.html

 

[glentre]

Thanks to all who replied.....your input is helpful. Interesting that there are varied opinions regarding whether $4k is a good price, reasonable, or outrageous for my project. I guess a lot has to do with what area of the country you are in.

After getting the garage sited on a plat of my lot by the required licensed surveyor and filing for a zoning permit, I called the building department today and was advised the requirement for architect/engineer stamps on drawings does not apply to detached residential garages. Their website information on this was not clear. That changes the picture regarding the drawings and lets me use an experienced house draftsman instead of an architect/engineer to make the drawings. I'll have to look at the liability aspect of using a draftsman and will likely have the drawings reviewed by a structural engineer when they are finished.

I have a good knowledge of construction, having owned a commercial architectural woodworking business for many years and a partner in a plumbing and heating business at one time. Being my own general contractor would not be a problem. However, we are in a rural area on a river and it is always difficult to get subs, especially during deer season, duck season, rock fish season, turkey season and Monday mornings or Friday afternoons. A local general contractor with subs that work with him on a continuing basis are more under his control than I would be as a one time customer so I am leaning toward using a general for this project in order to get it done without a lot of hassle.

I had originally asked if anyone had ever used one of the on line specialized garage planning services and what their experience was but did not get any replies on that subject. There appear to be a number of local designers who specialize in home renovations and additions so this may be a better route to take.

And yes, I plan to start a build thread once the project gets started. Having learned so much about the builds of others on the forum, I would like to pay back by contributing in any way I can.

Thanks to all...........Glen

 

[sberry]

Use 10x10 doors to start with and go a bit wider. 36x40 minimum. That is a 2 car garage. This is the best advice a real professional would give and I would recommend sending the guy here said to look as to the need for one 50$

 

[jd_1138]

I never could figure out why lumberyards can't just hand you over a pre-engineered/pre-drawn set of garage plans along with a materials list (to conveniently purchase their lumber/materials/fasteners). Maybe have 4 or 5 different sets with different options. Then reviewed and stamped by a local PE/architect for a few hundred.

Probably a liability issue I suppose. Because I guess the PE has to come out and check out your site and soil?

 

[LAROKE]

I never could figure out why lumberyards can't just hand you over a pre-engineered/pre-drawn set of garage plans along with a materials list (to conveniently purchase their lumber/materials/fasteners). Maybe have 4 or 5 different sets with different options. Then reviewed and stamped by a local PE/architect for a few hundred.

Probably a liability issue I suppose. Because I guess the PE has to come out and check out your site and soil?

At one time you could order a house from Sears. It arrived in your town on a railroad car, ready to assemble.

Sears Mail Order Home

 

[captaindiode]

I never could figure out why lumberyards can't just hand you over a pre-engineered/pre-drawn set of garage plans along with a materials list (to conveniently purchase their lumber/materials/fasteners). Maybe have 4 or 5 different sets with different options. Then reviewed and stamped by a local PE/architect for a few hundred.

Probably a liability issue I suppose. Because I guess the PE has to come out and check out your site and soil?

Look at 84 Lumber

 

[Jo Diesel]

If you don't think you can't get subs. Offer them cash on completion. Not a check, dead presidents, and let me know if you have issues. I have friends that are subs and they will fit a job in that pays. My brother is a general and his subs drop what they are doing and work weekends because they know they money is there when they are finished.

 

[mygarageone]

What are you expecting? This is really good. (They may also be stretching the truth and it could be a two month lead time.) Architects and Engineers don't operate like Jiffy Lube. They need a backlog of work so they can work full time. 4 weeks isn't that bad.

Stay local. You haven't even gotten through the headaches of zoning, permitting, and inspections. A local architect can help you get through these things and will save you tons of money in the end - especially if this is your first time doing something like this and you are leading the job yourself.

How are you going to build this thing? Just wait until you try to get contractors to show up... There is a big shortage of them right now.

You a real boat load of good news ! Nothing like discouragement dilivered by others to help him move forward .

 

[wssix99]

You a real boat load of good news !

True. My perspective was totally off. Construction is actually easier than it looks and is a total bed of roses...

Nothing like discouragement dilivered by others to help him move forward .

Doing things to "move forward" most often leads to trouble because the objective is to get the thing done.

Fortunately, the OP has researched the detail on zoning and stamps - and that changes the playing field dramatically. (Fortunately, in their favor.) Looking down the road pays off again.


Now that brings up another philosophical question: If architects were consulted about this project, (and they said that they couldn't get to it for a month) why didn't they bring up the point that their services wouldn't be required in this particular instance? (for a detached garage)