Over time I have run across several 12 point bolts and have gotten by with the typical cheaper sockets, which got me wondering. I know there is plenty that has been discussed in the snap-on vs everything else debate about what brand of 6 point socket will grab a rounded or damaged 6 point bolt/nut better without slipping. My question is, is this true for 12 point sockets? Will a cheap harbor freight 12 point socket grab the same as a truck brand 12 point socket? Or is there a differance in the point contact of a more expensive 12 point socket?
are all 12 point sockets equal????
- Thread starter mech-tech
- Start date
Snapped-off
Well-known member
I had some HF sockets and I snapped some Grade 8 bolts before there was any signs of rounding corners.
Actually surprised me a little.
Actually surprised me a little.
TinKnocker
Well-known member
I have warrantied some kobalt 12 pt sockets from chewing into the metal of the points. Mostly from using them on shallow head stainless screws. They were a cheap set and get misused.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Although the quality and design gap has narrowed greatly across many brands, you would have to look at each socket on a socket by socket basis. Some higher end 12 point sockets like Proto have off corner engagement while older versions of the same socket may not. I don't think it's possible to say that all 12 point sockets are created equal.
wornoutoldman
Well-known member
The first time I stepped on a SO truck (1979) the driver had a display where you would take a Craftsman (or any other brand) socket or wrench and tighten a fastener until it stripped. Then you would try to remove it and of course the wrench or socket would just spin. The driver would hand you the SO tool (with patented "Flank Drive") and you would effortlessly remove the damaged fastener. I believe most of the better tool manufacturers have a similar design nowadays.
I would advise you read all replies and purchase the brand that best fits your budget and brand preference. But you already know this.
I would advise you read all replies and purchase the brand that best fits your budget and brand preference. But you already know this.
TinKnocker
Well-known member
Let me add on my comment on kobalt. In no way am i complaining about them. For the twelve dollars i spent i cant complain. Sure they are not american, but the ease of warranty and the hell i give them they are good.
10-4 As I look at new wrench and socket offerings I'm noticing almost all have a "relieved broaching" profile like Flank Drive or Loc-Rite. Even the 6 pointers have it.
I thought their spline drive was different than their 12 point.
FriendOfYours
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
- Messages
- 303
My set of 12pt Kobalt are not snug on 15 13 and 10mm. I have stripped a couple and they are sloppy on actual 12pt rod bolts
retDAC
Well-known member
If you scroll down to where it starts "Tool 6 ...", member williaty has some good things to say about Wright 12 point sockets.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111457&highlight=wright+point
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111457&highlight=wright+point
Conductor562
Well-known member
The Proto Torqueplus 12 pt. are fantastic. I've seen several other members on here who feel the same. I bought all 12 pt. Proto in 1/2" drive and I've never rounded a fastener with them. Any 12 pt. Proto made from 1994 on should be the TorquePlus design.
ChevyEFI
Well-known member
I was fascinated with the idea of spline drive and had planned on picking up an SK set or other items with it. They would seem to be more useable across a broader range of bolt heads.
But: Realistically I'm on 6-point stuff the vast majority of the time, 12-point seldom, and the square / e-torx / other stuff (that spline could additionally drive) basically never.
So narrowing it down, comparing 12 point sockets to spline sockets, the 12-points have more meat and are less prone to distort. They're the better product for 6 and 12 point fasteners.
For squares, an 8-point socket is the better product. And a true E-torx is better for those torx studs.
I came to the conclusion I have no reason to go spline drive. Well, except for a few lug nuts, which is a different story.
Perfect example of where you should upgrade to better sockets, in both 6 and 12 point depending on your use. Those sizes are core usage for me and I wouldn't go long with basic fitment performance issues.
Conductor562
Well-known member
What generation Kobalt are we talking about?
The 1st generation Williams made Kobalt sockets were top notch. I still have the vast majority of mine. The Danaher era stuff was ok, but they didn't have **** on the previous stuff. I quit buying Kobalt completely toward the end of the 2nd generation, so I have no idea about the current stuff.
TAMPAGT07
Well-known member
Most of my 12 pts are SO....Maybe some out there are as good, but mine have never failed me..
trout
Well-known member
Tried to help out a friend with his car one day, said he already had what we needed so I didn't grab any of my tools. He had a new Kobalt set that he had purchased sometime in the past year, made in Taiwan. Really nice looking set, included 12pt deep and shallow of both metric and fractional in a case that managed to keep them in place for the most part. Thought to myself these things aren't half bad, chrome looks nicer and the case works better than any of the Craftsman sets I've had. Then we started to use them. Can't remember which sizes they were, but two of them were really loose on the fasteners and were rounding them off. I had to go home and grab my Craftsmans.
James_B
Well-known member
My 1/2" SAE 12 points are vintage Sidchrome (from decades before Stanley bought them out and manufacture was shifted to China), and have never given me a problem in 40 years of usage (other than the 5/8" 12 point plug socket not playing well with two spark plugs from a single manufacturer, requiring me to invest in a 6 point 5/8" plug socket that I could hammer on to get the plugs out).
For years, everything I worked on used SAE fasteners, so I didn't need any metric stuff. However, when I had to do some repairs on a Suzuki 4x4, I needed a set metric sockets in a hurry, and bought a set of cheap unbranded 12 point metric sockets from a discount store. While they were fine for light work, the moment you needed to deal with something more than a lightly torqued bolt, they were as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Before I threw them out and bought brand named replacements, of that set of 8 cheap sockets, the 19mm and 13mm 12 point sockets had both split wide open while trying to remove the 12 point M10.9 grade bolts used to mount the brake calipers on a Land Rover, and the teeth on the 15mm were damaged beyond usefulness while dealing with a 6 point bolt in the same Land Rover's front hub assembly. The 12 point sockets from my Stanley set had no problems dealing with any of those problem bolts after the cheap ones had failed. I know should have used a 6 point socket on the 15mm 6 point, but that was one size that I didn't have in my tool box at the time.
For years, everything I worked on used SAE fasteners, so I didn't need any metric stuff. However, when I had to do some repairs on a Suzuki 4x4, I needed a set metric sockets in a hurry, and bought a set of cheap unbranded 12 point metric sockets from a discount store. While they were fine for light work, the moment you needed to deal with something more than a lightly torqued bolt, they were as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Before I threw them out and bought brand named replacements, of that set of 8 cheap sockets, the 19mm and 13mm 12 point sockets had both split wide open while trying to remove the 12 point M10.9 grade bolts used to mount the brake calipers on a Land Rover, and the teeth on the 15mm were damaged beyond usefulness while dealing with a 6 point bolt in the same Land Rover's front hub assembly. The 12 point sockets from my Stanley set had no problems dealing with any of those problem bolts after the cheap ones had failed. I know should have used a 6 point socket on the 15mm 6 point, but that was one size that I didn't have in my tool box at the time.
The current Kobalt from Taiwan are better than the Danaher era in every way. I replaced or sold all my older Kobalt except my Williams ones when they did the refresh a few years ago. The ones with the red/SAE blue/metric are the gen after Danaher, for reference.
The Kobalts are not perfect. They do hold on pretty good but I have rounded one or two bolts with them.
FriendOfYours
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2012
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- 303
Blue ring around the metric. From what above says, newest.
Conductor562
Well-known member
I've still got a few 2nd gen 1/4" stuff, but I never really had that much to begin with. I thought the 1st gen stuff was the best value around and bought a lot of it, but I was disapointed in the Danaher stuff. By 2004 I was buying mostly Proto/Blackhawk stuff anyway. I do like the new rotar built ratchets. I've had the 3/8" flex head for a little over a year and can't really say a bad word about it. It's a little on the thicker side maybe, but it's never been an issue.
retDAC
Well-known member
Were your friend's Kobalt sockets 6pt, 12pt, or the Xtreme Access combined metric/SAE spline?
Stuey wrote the last up here: http://toolguyd.com/how-well-does-th...hex-fasteners/ Yes that's a wrench but Xtreme Access includes various wrenches and regular drive sockets as well as pass thrus. Their splines are the same combo style throughout. I have a few of the combo spline sockets in 3/8" drive and I don't like the way they 'fit' the smaller size of the fastener for a given socket.
trout
Well-known member
set included 12pt shallow and deep metric and fractional. we were working with the shallow metric.
retDAC
Well-known member
Thanks.
retDAC
Well-known member
Hey trout, what happened when your friend warranted his sockets? Were the new ones okay?