Are all tap and die sets the same?

[GirlnAgarage]

Been thinking more and more about getting a tap & die set. I haven't ever messed with one but thinking it's high time I learn. I've got a project or two that if I undertook would require it. I'd like to do it right.

Are tap and die sets the same? Anything particular I should look for? Brands to lean towards? Stay away from? Buy new or used?

 

[EOC_Jason]

Well... Depending on what material you are working with, you have a choice of steel or carbide. Taps come in bottom, plug, and taper.... Which depending on your hole depends on the tap to use.

Most common for home type / garage use and what come in sets are plug or maybe taper, and are made of steel.

I would say buy new because a tap & die are a perishable item, they will get dull and if you aren't careful you can break a tap in your hole. You can search for used, but unless they "look new" I probably wouldn't even bother. Well, the only exception to that would be for pipe threading as black pipe is pretty soft compared to the threading dies.

Don't forget to get some cutting fluid. Or you can use WD40 if you aren't going to be doing much or just don't want to have a bottle sitting on your shelf for 20 years.

If you have a project where you know you will be cutting a bunch of X threads, order just those taps and order one or two extra because you more than likely will break one.

Also if you kit doesn't include a chart, you can find them on the internet. They will tell you the side hole to drill for a particular tap.

 

[greasemonkey44]

i like irwin hanson kits; the price is right and the components are very good
i use them fairly frequently without any issues
some trucks rebrand them; they are us made

 

[Steve from Socal]

Actually the two common choices are carbon steel or high speed steel AKA HSS. The HSS ar more expensive but far outlast carbon steel. I would look for a good used set of Greenfield, GTD or threadwell all the same company at different times. Taps and dies from old American companies particularly Greenfield are the gold standard of hand taps and dies.

Steve

 

[Chadwilliam1]

cheap taps are very frustrating.

 

[larry_g]

I can say that like any tool you can cheap imported or domestic stuff that will be a poor excuse of a tool. You can spend a lot of bucks and get the wrong tool for the job you have in mind. All cutting tools for metal have some design and material spec that will make it better suited for one operation. http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce...N-77h2r?cm_re=Category-_-BodyLink-_-Hand+Taps

Read the page above to get an idea of what some of the designs are and materials the tap is make of and the material it is designed to cut. Then search out dies and get a bit of understanding there. Most of the brands listed above are good ones and more expensive does not mean a better tap for your requirements. Once you understand a bit more about the tool then search out some sets at MSC to get a price range. If you then go out and find sets at 10% of the msc price then you have to wonder if the quality is there.

You also have to understand that there is a bit of skill in running a tap and in the preparation of the hole to be tapped. Same goes for die work. Good luck.

 

[Lotek]

The Hanson sets are a good starter kit, spend the money on a small can of cutting oil, it will last forever, WD40 isn't a substitute, get a set of number and letter drills, you will need them for some of the most popular sizes of tap. 1/4-20 needs a #7 iirc. You can get close with fractional drills, but you will have less of a chance of breaking a tap with the correct size hole. Pick up bottoming and plug taps as necessary.

 

[jmm]

i like irwin hanson kits; the price is right and the components are very good
i use them fairly frequently without any issues
some trucks rebrand them; they are us made

I'll second the Irwin suggestion. For learning or for home/weekend use they're great. We've got a nice set in the company box at work, not sure of the maker, but they're stamped 'Made in West Germany'. Tougher than nails.

 

[2oolhound]

You have to decide on metric or sae but may as well get both. Fine threads are stronger but coarse threads require less turning of the fasteners. Aluminum favors coarse threads as a rule. Taps and dies are also very handy for restoring threads on equipment you are servicing and are a worthwhile investment.

 

[alan camby]

I think most home garages will be looking at carbon steel and HSS (high speed steel) taps and dies. The Carbide tools are better for CNC use since they are very hard and brittle and prone to breaking when hand tapping. Carbon steel is the budget cutters while HSS is the better option.
Years ago you could buy a very nice Craftsman set that was US made. I don't know for sure but would assume the quality has gone down and the COO is China.

As far as I know, Hanson still makes US tapd and dies in the US at reasonable prices. I think they are owned by the Irwin group so don't know how long this will be the case.

Like most tools, you get what you pay for, and a good set is not cheap.

Hopefully someone will chime in on some good brand names

 

[Joe B.]

I would just buy the individual taps you need and wait for a deal on a good set. That strategy has left me with a nice SAE set I have only used once or twice and a single M8 tap that has gotten a lot of work.

On a side note, I found it interesting that my recent purchase of an Irwin Hanson tap/drill bit combo pack was labeled "Made in USA with Global Components". However both the tap and the drill bit are marked USA.

 

[Provincial]

On a side note, I found it interesting that my recent purchase of an Irwin Hanson tap/drill bit combo pack was labeled "Made in USA with Global Components". However both the tap and the drill bit are marked USA.

My guess would be they were made from imported steel.

 

[Outlawmws]

Actually the two common choices are carbon steel or high speed steel AKA HSS. The HSS ar more expensive but far outlast carbon steel. I would look for a good used set of Greenfield, GTD or threadwell all the same company at different times. Taps and dies from old American companies particularly Greenfield are the gold standard of hand taps and dies.

Steve

I would just buy the individual taps you need and wait for a deal on a good set. That strategy has left me with a nice SAE set I have only used once or twice and a single M8 tap that has gotten a lot of work.

On a side note, I found it interesting that my recent purchase of an Irwin Hanson tap/drill bit combo pack was labeled "Made in USA with Global Components". However both the tap and the drill bit are marked USA.

This and This ^^^^

Definitely stay with HSS taps. Vermont American used to be decent, if not the best, but the other brands mentioned are very good. Not sure these days on the VA's.

I've got a LOT of taps as they are somewhat of a consumable more so than drills even. Almost all are yard sale finds, except for the odd size I needed NOW for a particular project, and bought new. I used to get them at OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware) but they are no longer a real hardware store. These days I'm getting the ones I have to have NOW at my local ACE, which has a special counter just for taps drills and other cutting tools.

 

[greasemonkey44]

this is the one i bought; made in usa iirc
like i said i have been very happy with it
http://www.tooltopia.com/irwin-hanson-vise-grip-26317.aspx

 

[cnc-me]

I think the biggest thing to look for on taps, is a ground thread, and those are
usually made from HSS.
Threads are ground into the blank after heat treating, where cut thread
taps are cut into the blank and then heat treated.
I believe some of the larger taps are cut and then ground after heat treatment.
Greenfield,Winter, Cleveland and Union Butterfield are some good ones
right off the top of my head.

Check out Tubalcain's tutorials on tapping here.

 

[Provincial]

I received a Hanson "Ace Super Set" of taps and dies for Christmas in the late 1960's. I still use it regularly. It is carbon steel. I have broken a couple of the taps over the years, but only a few. The survivors still work just fine.

The old school teaching was that HSS dulls quicker than carbon, but then holds up better. Carbon must be used by hand, as very few machine tools will turn slow enough to keep from overheating it.

Some taps are more likely to break than others. 1/4" NC is notorious for breaking as it has very little strength due to the coarse threads and small minor pitch diameter. A 2-flute tap (gun tap) is stronger in this size, and is preferred if you are tapping through holes so the chips can exit the far side.

NF taps are less likely to break, but can chip a tooth easier because they are smaller and have less meat to them. The flutes also have less room for the chips to exit.

When buying used taps, check the sharpness with your finger - it should be sharp enough to make you fear cutting your finger. The first threads of the tapered end do almost all of the work, so check all of the cutting edges up to the first few teeth on the straight part of the tap. The straight part towards the shank are just along for the ride beyond what I described. All these do is keep the tap straight after it gets started in the hole.

 

[cnc-me]

I received a Hanson "Ace Super Set" of taps and
Some taps are more likely to break than others. 1/4" NC is notorious for breaking as it has very little strength due to the coarse threads and small minor pitch diameter. A 2-flute tap (gun tap) is stronger in this size, and is preferred if you are tapping through holes so the chips can exit the far side.

I seem to have the most problems with 10-24's.
Have not broke one in a long time, but they always seem
like they could break more easily than any other size.

 

[RCStocker]

Hansen and Greenfield and the German ones are very good. Ones form Japan are just as good. High Speed Steel is the way to go.
To answer your question they are not all equal. Not even close. The cheap sets are real junk. Hansen and Greenfield use to make them for Sears but I don't know who makes thiers now. I picked up a metric set form Sears 10 years ago and they have done a good job. If you give them hard use I would go with a better brand.

 

[Alchymist]

I seem to have the most problems with 10-24's.
Have not broke one in a long time, but they always seem
like they could break more easily than any other size.

Nah, the 0-80's are the ones I have trouble with.

 

[fatfillup]

The old Sears sets that were good quality were called Kromedge or something close to that.

The rest of the advice above is solid.

Didn't know aluminum favored coarse threads.

Oh, definitely use cutting oil everytime!!

And when fixing or restoring threads, a thread chaser is normally a better choice then a tap. A tap will remove metal while a chaser will normally push the threads back in place. I have also used a thread file to redress threads with good success.

 

[PT Doc]

Buy the taps you need in hss. No need for sets. But all 3 types for the dimension you need and build as you need.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Yeah I have tended to buy from McMaster in the size I need. I know they're not the cheapest but they only sell quality stuff because they're industrial. For instance, I once needed an oddball M12x1.0 tap. I wouldn't have even found that in a set. I use a lot of NPT, so I buy those piece by piece.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Thank yall for the links and input. I'll look them over. The project that will be most immediate relative to my tapping projects is tapping my truck's exhaust manifold to run an EGT gauge. I don't want to screw that one up for sure. That's why I want to practice on scrap before the real thing. There is a drill and tap sold specifically for this from parts vendors. It does the job I assume since I haven't read about complaints. It gets used once, maybe twice if it gets passed around.

Anyway thanks again.

 

[5mall5nail5]

The EGT sensor is likely 1/8 NPT. You will use an R or Q drill bit for this. My EGT fittings on my car are 1/8 NPT. 1/8 NPT does not get used one or twice, if building cars, plumbing, etc., that is THE most used tap in my box.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Ok. I don't build cars and I only have one truck. I was speaking in that sense

Yes it is 1/8" npt. Good to know that size gets used a lot. Get quality then is the message I'm hearing?

 

[signcrafter]

Ok. I don't build cars and I only have one truck. I was speaking in that sense

Yes it is 1/8" npt. Good to know that size gets used a lot. Get quality then is the message I'm hearing?

You want a quality tap. Cheap taps break easily, especially if you are hand tapping a manifold which usually means a weird angle and things in the way. So it's hard to get a straight on shot so if you don't keep it straight a tap can break easily. You probably won't use a pipe tap much if ever again unless you are doing a project you need to tap for pipe or some various areas on cars/trucks but most people could probably make it through life without a pipe tap. But still buy a quality one because if a tap does snap off it's a royal pain to get out.

Also when tapping the manifold you can use some grease to hold the chips so they don't get in the manifold.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Ok. I don't build cars and I only have one truck. I was speaking in that sense

Yes it is 1/8" npt. Good to know that size gets used a lot. Get quality then is the message I'm hearing?

Yep if you look on Mcmaster car under pipe taps the 1/8 NPT are usually around $20 - 30. Chinese is like $5.

 

[signcrafter]

Snap on is only 8.50 with free shipping and made in the USA, http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=683023&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog.

 

[5mall5nail5]

But doesn't say what the finish is, coating, or material is.