Are arc fault breakers required everywhere?

[Cmreschke]

Michigan adopted 2011 nec. That is correct. Michigan's residential code aka the mrc is what you will wire your house to. The mrc supercedes the nec in residential installations. The mrc was last adopted in 2005.
With technology today you could put an afcis main with led that flash the circuit number when there is an arc fault. So your whole house trips, big deal. Hell of a lot better than some ******** ripping out the proper breaker and the house burns down. And there won't be bitching about cost of 10 arc faults. For that cost roughly 400 to 500 dollars a better way can be had.
You got me on the combination breaker. It was a guess and I haven't installed one in 5+ years.

 

[Rizingson]

So does anyone know exactly what the latest NEC requirements are for ARC fault and GFI in a DETACHED shop. I'm planning to add-on to my built in 2008 bldg. In '08 I installed regular breakers but put a GFI outlet on the first outlet in each circuit and protected the rest. Lighting was only protected by the standard $8 breaker. Will that still work in '15. Also will I have to change any existing breakers when I connect to the shop's electric panel?
Again, not concerned about dwelling reference this is for a work shop detached from the residence and not commercial. Thanks for your input.

 

[pattenp]

My interpretation of the NEC 2014 is the Arc faults are not required in the garage/shop, but all outlets in the garage/shop are still to be GFCI if the floor is on grade.

 

[Mustang51js]

Whatever you did before the code change and passed can stay,you don't need to update your old stuff unless you never got an inspection for it

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

There is nothing wrong with GFCI's, AFCI's never did what they claim & the customers became the beta test, which is what I have issue with, the idea is good but the crooks behind it all should be shot for thievery, namely UL, NFPA, and the manufacturers, & others, it should have been much further developed before being required.


With Ebay, you have no assurance that the product is genuine, the product is costly enough that the ChiComs could be counterfeiting them. Remember the fake SQ D QO breakers? The ChiComs do supply most of the worlds counterfeit merchandise.

 

[greenlizard]

FWIW all of the circuits in the living areas of my home are on AFCI breakers except for the dedicated smoke detector circuit.
Mine was completely rewired to current SC code in 2014. Whatever code SC uses, that is.
So far, no tripped breakers.

 

[uparms]

Yes, AFCI and GFCI are compatible on same circuit. you could AFCI at the breaker and GFCI in line down at the receptacles.

 

[Zeke]

Did you know that if you touch the ground and neutral in a light with the switch off it still trips the breaker,not much of an arc there. Can't wait till the price comes down

Latest GFCI's do that too.

I had an arc fault earlier this year and I'm lucky there wasn't a fire. Had I not been home I would not have a home. Putting in arc faults next week for most of the living space but not the kitchen circuits. They are GFCI where needed (pretty much everywhere). We are on the 2011 AFAIK but I'm sure that's soon to change. Nevertheless, I do what I want not what the code tells me to. Sometimes I surpass the code and sometimes I circumvent it.

Edit: As I sit here and think about it, I've had 4 distinct arc faults in my life. One resulted in a coffee maker fire right on the counter. The CM melted and fell over forward off the counter and into an open trash can right there. Woke up to smoke and ran into the kitchen to see the TC going up in flames. Another time I was leaving for a movie and was shutting the garage door when I noticed flashes behind a wall plate in the dark garage. Save the day on that one. And once more there was another coffee pot that when bad, smoke but no flame. These were all in different homes dating back to 1972 on the first incident.

I've got no problems with AFCI's.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Damn, uve had your share of fires!!

 

[Mustang51js]

You better stop making coffee at home lol

 

[bgeery]

The code is just the minimum standard. Put CAFCI and GFCI on every circuit you can. The code is heading in that direction anyway, and it just might save your life someday.

 

[reader2580]

I have a nearly new Milwaukee Sawzall with about ten hours use on it that trips my AFCI breakers. The brushes shouldn't be bad on something with that little use. No other issues with them. My father and I found so many electrical issues with this house that it is probably good to have them.

 

[bgeery]

I have a nearly new Milwaukee Sawzall with about ten hours use on it that trips my AFCI breakers. The brushes shouldn't be bad on something with that little use. No other issues with them. My father and I found so many electrical issues with this house that it is probably good to have them.

I've got a Skill Sawzall, about the same age as yours. Doesn't have a problem even being on circuits with combined protection from GFCI and CAFCI.

I believe part of the problem is some brand's AFCI are better than others (I'm all Square D here), and I think there are still older/poorer motor/device designs being produced that don't address difficulties with AFCI.

 

[Zeke]

Damn, uve had your share of fires!!

I should mention that the sparks in the garage was in a Viet Nam era built home with AL wiring. I pigtailed the whole house within a week. But I had a fridge on the outlet in the garage that went bad. An older fridge that drew a lot of current. So when people talk about AL wiring perils, I know first hand. No house with AL wiring should be w/o AFCI's. Sometimes you can't get to all of it to pull it out.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I should mention that the sparks in the garage was in a Viet Nam era built home with AL wiring. I pigtailed the whole house within a week. But I had a fridge on the outlet in the garage that went bad. An older fridge that drew a lot of current. So when people talk about AL wiring perils, I know first hand. No house with AL wiring should be w/o AFCI's. Sometimes you can't get to all of it to pull it out.

A house with branch circuit AL wiring should be gutted and rewired IMHO!

 

[Zeke]

A house with branch circuit AL wiring should be gutted and rewired IMHO!

No one would argue the point but it's not easy to 'gut' a nice home for a rewire. I don't see a real problem with AL as a conductor as long as it's terminated in the best means possible. I'm not sure what the "best means possible" is at this point in time but the Noalox CU/AL rated wire nuts seem to do the job.

True, an electrician could make a decent living hanging around a tract of 2000 homes built during Viet Nam. The home I lived in with AL wiring was built in 1968. Pretty nice home actually and built well AFA framing and appointments for the era. Windows were **** but that's easily rectified. Had an attic that wouldn't quit. Could have finished it out and rented it as another home.

They don't build them like that anymore.

 

[Norcal]

Later aluminum alloy conductors did not have the same problems as earlier AL wiring. Old time electrical contractor told me that AL was used in some cases because it was $20 cheaper then copper, tract homes are built cheap as they can get away with..