are the older Craftsman small table saws any good?

[BTL-A4]

I'd like to get a smaller portable, or portable-sized TS. I won't be moving it much. It will be set up to cut aluminum and plastic. I'm seeing a lot of the older Craftsman table saws for sale relatively cheap. Are the fences any good? Do they keep parallel to the blade? Are the miter gauges any good?

Like this "Craftsman 100":


I don't mind doing a little restoration work.

I've used a Skilsaw portable and it was loud, flimsy and didn't cut straight. The reviews on the newer ones by most brands all discuss how the fences don't stay parallel.

Thanks!

 

[Boogerman]

They work. They're not a unisaw. They're cheap and easily available. Many are out of adjustment, need a lot of time to get working well. If your money is much more dear than your time, and you don't need a precision saw, they're your ticket.

I scrapped a perfectly functional one of these out a few weeks go, along with a 4" jointer on the same stand. Used the motor for a sander, gave the table to a guy for a welding table, and the rest went into scrap after I offered it here for parts with no takers.

I'd use one of these in good adjustment before I'd use a HF or similar bench top saw, but not by much.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I’ve got a CM 10” direct drive with a double cast top. I've had it for roughly 40 years when I’d bought it new. I’ve never bothered with the measurement tape on the fence rail. I use a magnetic tape measure directly to the fence. As for the fence I use a large square to line up then I know I’m parallel to the blade.
If I were to find another similar I would jump at it to put in my garage at the lake.

 

[BTL-A4]

What about getting an aftermarket fence? Do they make ones that fit these? Might be cheaper to just get a nicer, new saw, though.

 

[shoot summ]

What about getting an aftermarket fence? Do they make ones that fit these? Might be cheaper to just get a nicer, new saw, though.

You can adapt a biesemeyer fence to them no problem.

 

[RTM]

Many I know who use TS a lot, complain about the small top size for their projects on the older Craftsman era saws like you are asking about.

If you can deal with the small top, go for it

 

[subroc]

I wouldn't characterize that as a small saw. I would characterize that as a 10" craftsman belt drive shop saw. If you spend the time cleaning that saw up, or restore it completely, power it appropriately, you will have a shop tool that can be used for most home shop uses without reservations. That particular fence and rail system if undamaged and functioning correctly can certainly be used. A biesemeyer clone like a t2 would certainly be a worthy upgrade.

BTW, what is the model number of that saw? A 113.29901?

 

[BTL-A4]

I wouldn't characterize that as a small saw. I would characterize that as a 10" craftsman belt drive shop saw. If you spend the time cleaning that saw up, or restore it completely, power it appropriately, you will have a shop tool that can be used for most home shop uses without reservations. That particular fence and rail system if undamaged and functioning correctly can certainly be used. A biesemeyer clone like a t2 would certainly be a worthy upgrade.

BTW, what is the model number of that saw? A 113.29901?

No idea what model. There were no good photos that showed that info. It was a "Craftsman 100" if that means anything.

I have a decent TS; this one would be a second one set up to cut aluminum and plastic. I don't need or want anything too big.

Some of these older Cman saws have crappy table extensions, or none at all. I'd probably make a sled if I got one.

The fences I was able to find were more than a saw. Even the Vevor (the King of Chinesium ****) was $150.

 

[Steve_P]

Dunno. My dad had a larger one in the 80s-90s, it was decades old then, and it was a POS IMO. The belt would slip under anything but the lightest use, and we put a new belt on it, and tried adding additional force to tension the belt, etc. I've said this before, but I could've taken it for free after he died and didn't bother. Maybe my experience is an anomoly.....

If you only want to cut aluminum and plastic, and not massive bars but extrusions, then maybe?

 

[RAS61]

I bought a well used portable DeWalt TS for the occasional project where one is needed, the fence is very inaccurate but is fine for carpentry if I carefully check the distance at the front and back of the blade before locking it down. A bit of a pain but it works. Don't know if this would be accurate enough for your needs cutting metal, but with some extra precaution a sloppy fence can still deliver good results

 

[BTL-A4]

I bought a well used portable DeWalt TS for the occasional project where one is needed, the fence is very inaccurate but is fine for carpentry if I carefully check the distance at the front and back of the blade before locking it down. A bit of a pain but it works. Don't know if this would be accurate enough for your needs cutting metal, but with some extra precaution a sloppy fence can still deliver good results

Which Dewalt? The one with the rack and pinion fence mechanism seems to be the best one.

I'd make a sled for cross-cutting. I could also use it for ripping shorter pieces. It would depend on the condition of the fence if I could use it for ripping longer stock.

 

[BTL-A4]

Dunno. My dad had a larger one in the 80s-90s, it was decades old then, and it was a POS IMO. The belt would slip under anything but the lightest use, and we put a new belt on it, and tried adding additional force to tension the belt, etc. I've said this before, but I could've taken it for free after he died and didn't bother. Maybe my experience is an anomoly.....

If you only want to cut aluminum and plastic, and not massive bars but extrusions, then maybe?

Was your dad's one of those gold or light brown/champagne-colored ones with the silver swirl deco on it? I wonder if adding a linkbelt would improve slippage?

I don't plan on cutting anything heavy, just thin-wall aluminum extrusions and thin (1/8") plastic.

 

[slowtwitch73]

You're way better off getting one of the modern job site type saws. Actually truly mobile and you won't break your back.

 

[dscheidt]

Was your dad's one of those gold or light brown/champagne-colored ones with the silver swirl deco on it? I wonder if adding a linkbelt would improve slippage?

I don't plan on cutting anything heavy, just thin-wall aluminum extrusions and thin (1/8") plastic.

I have an emerson made craftsman 10" contractor saw, which my dad bought new in 1990 +/- a couple years. The fence it came with was garbage. It was impossible to set right, always wanted to pinch, and took 20 minutes to set, but once it was set it did stay. the 'mobile base' it came with would have to be much better before I'd call it garbage. the motor pulley it came with was round. Cleverly, the bore wasn't in the middle, so they got it to vibrate, and make it impossible to set the belt tight enough to not slip without taking the easy way. It's flat, and the wing extensions are coplanar with the top. With a decent fence, a new pulley, and a proper belt, it's not a bad saw. It's not really a good one, just not bad, and it lacks a riving knife. But unless you can buy one someone has done the work on, it will cost you more to turn it into that than buying something modern and not **** would.

 

[Aaron_W]

The Craftsman 103.xxxx (King Seeley) and 113.xxxx (Emerson) saws have a following, although that covers quite a few models from the 1940s through the 90s or later. The belt drive seem to be preferred over the direct drive models. Aftermarket fences are common upgrades. There is a FB group for these saws if you do FB.

I have a Craftsman aluminum top table saw I bought new around 2000, not a great saw but it has done the job and is still going after 20 years. I recently picked up an older Craftsman 113 direct drive, probably an early 80s saw. It has a cast iron top and cast iron wings so seems to be a lot better than my other saw. Still in the get it cleaned and tuned up stage so can't say how good it is yet, but first impressions it is solidly built. I have plans on getting a better fence for it. I only paid $50 so I'm not into it for much money if it fails to please me.

I think like a lot of Craftsman tools, you have some people comparing them to pro tools costing many times more, and others who just need a saw for hobby projects and have expectations equal to the price.
Personally I think all contractor style table saws kind of ****, so $50 + some upgrades for a saw that is a little disappointing is better than $600 for a saw that is disappointing. Unfortunately I don't have the shop space for a full size cabinet saw.


Not a table saw but have you looked at Evolution? They now offer a couple of very affordable multi-material and metal cutting circular saws, including a multi-material track saw.

 

[RAS61]

Which Dewalt? The one with the rack and pinion fence mechanism seems to be the best one.

I'd make a sled for cross-cutting. I could also use it for ripping shorter pieces. It would depend on the condition of the fence if I could use it for ripping longer stock.

It's the DW744, and yes, it does have the rack and pinion fence, but mine at least is not very accurate. I bought it used for maybe $70 to complete a sun room renovation, and it may have been abused by the previous owner; I think he was using it to cut landscaping stones, I had to clean a lot of silica dust out of the raise and tilt mechanisms. But as I said, if you double check the alignment it works fine, but even if it was in mint condition, it's still far from a Biesemeyer and I wouldn't trust it

 

[WillyBoy]

The Craftsman 103.xxxx (King Seeley) and 113.xxxx (Emerson) saws have a following, although that covers quite a few models from the 1940s through the 90s or later.

Seconding what Aaron said. I prefer the later, Emerson machines. I've refurbished a dozen over the last 15 years. The fences can slow you down. The 113.27520 that was my daily driver for years was a great saw. The original fence needed to be measured at the front and back of the table to ensure it was parallel to the blade. Check the table for warping front to back. I have a couple in my stash that are nearly a 1/32 inch low at the blade opening. Not a problem if you're making a through cut but can make a difference if you're cutting a slot or dado.
The 113. 27610 was a short lived model. The left miter slot was closer to the blade and on some cuts would interfere with the miter gauge.

 

[seber]

Craftsman sold about a million different table saws. Some are decent. Some are ****. I have yet to see one with a good fence. If you are willing to take the time to align the fence parallel to the blade for every cut, they can work. Aftermarket is the real answer here. I would stay away from direct drive or shaft drive.

 

[aquinob]

The saw is probably ok, the fence will probably let you down. Looking over at vintage machinery I think this one: http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=37796 is the same saw.

The fence if original, only locks down at the front so it may be a bit prone to being pushed at the back end if it's not tight. The footprint of the saw is fairly large too, since the motor has to stick out the back. Construction wise, they are probably pretty substantial, made in the 50's and 60s where they didn't always cheap out on the metal content.

Since you already have a table saw, you might be better off with one of the newer portable saws. Most are coming with a riving knife and table extensions that slide out. I've got one of the Bosch portable saws with the gravity rise stand that I keep out in the shed since the garage space is at a premium now.

Before the portable I had one of the Craftsman "flexidrive" saws, then a Unisaw and a Delta 12/14. I'm happy with the Bosch for the few times I have need of a table saw.

 

[BTL-A4]

Thanks for all the replies! Looks like by all accounts these saws all have crappy fences. I'm looking for a cheap saw on CL or FB that is decent. If I get it cheap enough, I can add an aftermarket fence. They are not cheap, but I see why.

I need one with two miter slots so I can add a sled.

I want to leave this set up in one spot so I can use it to cut aluminum and plastic without having to replace the blade on my main TS, so portability is not really a major issue. I'll likely put it on a stand with wheels it I find I do need to move it around.

The Dewalt is $300 right now on sale. They come up for sale at that price every once in awhile. I don't want to buy one now and have it sit and burn up warranty time, so I'll wait. I can keep looking for a used one until I decide to just bite the bullet and get a new one.

 

[babyseal]

Older Craftsman saws...set the fence, bump it with the heel of your hand, and it'll be bang on. Or at least that's how mine work, don't even have to think about it. Got two of them, they work just fine. Then again, they were my Dad's, I've been using them my whole life, and pretty much know their idiosyncrasies. Like someone pointed out, they only lock at the rear, so they're always slightly out of true until you bump them.

OTOH, haven't ever seen a Craftsman anything with a decent mitre.

 

[jives]

Just add in my $0.02. I bought a new CM 113.** contractor model TS back in about 1995. 3 hp, cast iron table extensions, full length "align-a-rip" fence. Still the staple of the shop, but does have it's quirks. The fence is fine but the miter gauge is poor (but I have dropped it a few times, so perhaps not CM's fault). The arbor pulley occasionally loosens up as the set screw loosens on the woodruff key. The arbor angle-adjusting screw mechanism is secured by bushings mounted to the side of the case, which is not terribly thick steel. I had to fabricate a new bearing-bushing system after the old one got so worn the screw would not tilt the blade.

I understand the criticisms against cheap fences, but it is important to check the squareness of the blade. As my saw has gotten older it seems that that needs to be checked more often.

 

[MarkH]

If you are talking about the small table saw and not a contractor one this is the issues we had.

Since we did not do a cabinet type of woodworking we had no issues with the fence and motor. We had issues with size of the table being too small and requiring we use some portable tables to help hold plywood when we cut it. In addition we found it was easy to tip over when cutting thicker or larger pieces of wood especially plywood. We ended up having to tie it down with a cable to a floor eyebolt or a couple cement blocks on the front of it when cutting these larger pieces.

Basically i had gotten it since my dad had purchased a way too light one and it was tippy and I wanted a bigger one that would not tip. I did not go big enough and as soon as I could replaced it with a lower end contractor one. Very happen with that move. Sold the small craftsman cheap.

 

[milkovich]

I'll be the lone 113 acolyte I guess. They have the bones to be better than a good saw. The only saw you can even compare the 113 saws to is the delta 36-725 and even then you're losing 1000rpm in blade speed. The two drawbacks I see are the complete lack of any form of dust collection and the fences. The best fence that came on them was the align-a-rip (very similar to the old Ridgid 4512 fence) and it's passable but not great. A T3 delta fence retrofit is the usual upgrade. You can buy splitters and craigslist cast iron wings, link belts and you'll have a better saw in my opinion than the Delta or the Rigid. I'm not counting the other upgrades you can make to them like miter gauges because you would do that to any saw with a standard 3/4 miter slot (though many jobsite saws don't have standard slots). Realistically, if you just buy one and drag it home, you probably won't be very happy with it (and they're dangerous without a knife/splitter), but if you're mechanically inclined and have the garage space, you can end up with an absolute gem that can be dialed in to the thousandth. If you are rough framing or building raised flowerbeds, you can get away with a jobsite saw but I hate them. Anyone with a jobsite saw outgrows them pretty quickly and they're obsolete in my opinion now that we have track saws. Full disclosure, I don't even own a 113, I have a few BT3000s I've been keeping alive well past their expiration date.