Are there any chemists around?

[bluedog225]

The fires in California got me thinking about additional fire protection for my cabin before I close in the interior walls.

I’ve got the forest cleared back (mostly), metal siding, metal screening over the soffit vents, etc. All the easy stuff. And I plan to insulate with mineral wool in the walls, and cellulose in the rafters. I’ve even got the windows set up with barn door style metal clad shutters.

My question is about boron. I’ve done a little research and my understanding is that boron is a flame retardant. That’s why cellulose insulation treated with borates wont sustain a flame. And the degree of fire protection depends on the concentration of boron.

I’ve soaked the place pretty good with Boracare and Timbor to address a powder post beetle issue.

Does anyone know if those products in fact provide some fire protection? 45 years ago, I could’ve probably determined the molecular weight of the boron in the products, badly. But that learning is long gone.

I don’t mind buying some more boracare and applying it at a 50% concentration. It will provide more insect protection, and if it provides some real fire protection, that would be great.

My other option is to buy more intumescent paint. I know that will work, but it makes boracare look cheap. I got about 15 gallons from Restore and have put it on in strategic areas. With an eye towards keeping the walls standing in the roof from collapsing. But I don’t have anything like comprehensive coverage.

Thanks

 

[mike93lx]

My understanding is that the amount you would have to apply to meaningful impact fire resistance is massive.

IMO, If it was a good flame retardant, it would be marketed as such.

 

[bluedog225]

Agreed. There’s a lot of boron based fire retardants, but most of them seem to be targeted towards the industrial market.

Firebrake | Zinc borate flame retardant products | U.S. Borax

The U.S. Borax Firebrake products can be used in a multitude of formulations for fire retardancy in polymers, plastics, and rubber compounds.

www.borax.com

 

[cvairwerks]

This might be worth reading for you:

The role of boron in flame-retardant treatments | US Forest Service Research and Development

research.fs.usda.gov

 

[jack stand]

It seems like you've taken (many times more than) reasonable measures to protect your cabin.... in terms of having to argue with an insurance company in the event of a loss.
I don't know the partular conditions there in TX, but between your "fire line" clearing and the metal exterior I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

 

[pcmeiners]

My old house had cellulose in walls ceiling and attic. In 1998 had a large fire in the basement from a contractor who used turpentine to clean brushes, got it onto the drop cloths. So happens the bucket he used for the cleaning had some pool chlorine in it . Between the turpentine and hypochlorite the folded cloths vaporized due to spontaneous combustion, along withe the entire basement. Anyway the fire did not go up the walls of the balloon frame building due to the treated cellulose. Actually the cellulose exposed to the hot fire only burned about an 1/8" where ever it was hit by flames. The fire was full fledged, it took out all the floor joints and the floor above, the joists had no cellulose.
In the unused attic I released (2) 10 lb dry powder extinguisher (ammonium phosphate) over the cellulose when they needed a recharge.
Basically the added boron in cellulose really works .

If you have any military connections, see if you can have them carpet bomb the woods around you to get rid of any organic materials

 

[pima67]

Way back in the '50-'60s when I was seasonal and later permanent Forest Service employee, borate was used as a wildfire retardant dropped usually by converted TBMs. Since it had damaging effects on vegetation, it was replaced by phosphate based retardant. In those days all FS employees were considered available for fire suppression. My how things have changed!

 

[bluedog225]

I’ve got a fair amount of the old denim based insulation that I was going to use for the whole place. Then they stop making it. Dang it. Anyway I like Rockwell better.

I put a torch to it and it will not sustain a flame. It’s pretty heavily treated with boron as well.

I haven’t tried the cellulose yet.

I’m afraid this cabin is a long way from being insurable. I took it on as a DIY project. It’s well beyond the year available for construction insurance. And it’s not finished enough yet for conventional insurance. I tried with multiple companies.

Given that, my goal is to avoid the loss.

 

[pcmeiners]

I put a torch to it and it will not sustain a flame. It’s pretty heavily treated with boron as well.

I haven’t tried the cellulose yet.

I have torched boron treated cellulose, flame on it for a minute, does not burn. Now if a fire was directly on it for 30 minutes, I am sure any cellulose at a few hundred degrees will eventually burn. I suppose any burnt cellulose insulates the un-burnt cellulose below it. Now if you only have an inch of loose cellulose above wood joists, you going to have a problem.

 

[MOS3522]

If a wildfire reaches the cabin it will burn even if it’s made of poured concrete, thanks to the flammable contents within. You’ll get much more mileage with simpler wildfire prevention stuff, like clearing vegetation back to a 35 foot perimeter and putting spark screens on your soffit vents.