Are Vessel Philips screwdrivers JIS?

[Davefr]

Anyone know if std. Vessel Philips screwdrivers are always JIS? Their website specs. don't make any mention of JIS.

 

[M6erfan]

Dave, this is a statement from Vessel tools that they had on their website a few years ago, but I can't find it now. . .

"As you might know, VESSEL is the oldest screwdriver manufacturer in Japan, and made a contribution to set a Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) standard.

We do follow JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) standard for cross point screwdrivers. Because the technology to manufacture screwdrivers in Japan had already become above a certain level, JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) recognition system for screwdrivers became extinct in 2008.

So there is no authorized JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) manufacturer now, and we therefore cannot print "JIS" mark on our screwdrivers."

 

[rancherbill]

"An overall rule of thumb is that Japanese cross-point screwdrivers, such as VESSEL, are recommended in order to help prevent cam-outs and screw damage when working on Japanese brand products."
https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/jis-japanese-industrial-standard

 

[KnurledNut]

In a nutshell, yes.

 

[CJM8515]

if your looking to work on something with DIN/JIS type screws yes vessel will work very well. Phillips DOES NOT. they are designed to cam out.

 

[KnurledNut]

if your looking to work on something with DIN/JIS type screws yes vessel will work very well. Phillips DOES NOT. they are designed to cam out.

I broke the tip clean off of a Snap-on Instinct ACR on a extremely stubborn Honda small engine crosspoint screw. It never cammed or tried to slip. YMMV.

 

[CJM8515]

I broke the tip clean off of a Snap-on Instinct ACR on a extremely stubborn Honda small engine crosspoint screw. It never cammed or tried to slip. YMMV.

pretty amazing feat lol

I will only use vessel on my bikes, quads and other japanese and korean items. i never broke any. craftsman used to make a set of impact vessels-well vessel made them for cman. i have 2 sets

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I keep a Vessel in my tool boxes for bicycle components (Shimano) and Japanese motorcycle stuff.

 

[kabinenroller]

I reach for my Vessel screw drivers before any other brand I have including SnapOn. They feel right and work better than anything else I have tried.

 

[Jeff]

I have a 100mm set of Vessels that are my go-to drivers on my bench. As others have said, they are amazing. I have no issues working with JIS on a older Honda bike.

 

[MJK]

Vessel 930s work great on the JIS fasteners in my older Japanese cars. No camming out.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Any old Phillips will work fine on bike stuff (or slotted most times). What fasteners are there that are cross point? Limit screws and cable replacement covers on shifters...

 

[Odd-job]

Any old Phillips will work fine on bike stuff (or slotted most times). What fasteners are there that are cross point? Limit screws and cable replacement covers on shifters...

True, but it's a bad day when something bike related cams out. Especially anything made out of Titanium. Have a Campognolo derailleur with a seized and cammed out limit screw courtesy of a Craftsman WF made screwdriver. Wish I had discovered Vessel sooner.

 

[slowtwitch73]

I have some custom Allen Ti limit screws.. gets rid of a cross point all together.

Would campy have jis hardware... kinda doubt it.

 

[Odd-job]

I have some custom Allen Ti limit screws.. gets rid of a cross point all together.

Would campy have jis hardware... kinda doubt it.

Those allen screws sound like the way to go. True campy isn't JIS, but I trust the vessels to do less damage generally speaking.

 

[slowtwitch73]

They get mangled from stoned college dudes trying to 'fix' their shifting.. they yard on the screw when its pegged against the stop with the bike on the garage floor.

Generally speaking limit screws are a 'set it and forget it' type deal.

 

[pioneer1]

Bought 1 just now to see what all the fuss about them is

 

[Pexto]

Any old Phillips will work fine on bike stuff (or slotted most times). What fasteners are there that are cross point? Limit screws and cable replacement covers on shifters...

I completely disagree. I have a Mac screwdriver set I bought new around 1980; damn was I proud of it. The Phillips drivers in that set are nearly unusable on derailleur limit screws. When I picked up a Vessel JIS on the recommendation of another bike mechanic at the shop it was a revelation; a hallelujah moment. I still have that Mac set and the Phillips rarely gets used; certainly not on my bikes!

Edited to add: I don't mean to imply that Vessel are the only screwdrivers that will work on JIS screws. I have Felo, PB, Wera, and other drivers that work fine (I believe these all follow the current DIN standard that seems to work well for both Phillips and JIS). But what is certain is that some Phillips drivers work very poorly on JIS screws.

 

[Odd-job]

They get mangled from stoned college dudes trying to 'fix' their shifting.. they yard on the screw when its pegged against the stop with the bike on the garage floor.

Generally speaking limit screws are a 'set it and forget it' type deal.

That was me back in the day, but fortunately or unfortunately I couldn't afford Ti back then or good tools. A little penetrating oil never hurts. Derailleurs always seem to attract dirt and grit.

 

[silkman]

Having read a ton of threads for JIS screws and screwdriver, I have come to the conclusion that any reputable *european* and *new* screwdriver (witte, wiha, wera etc) should work with old JIS hardware. Vessel and other made in japan screwdrivers obviously will work too. JIS standard doesnt exist any more and has been merged with latest DIN.

Dont tell me your 20 year phillips #2 doesnt work well, it won't.

Dont tell me your new american phillips #2 doesnt work, it won't because it wasn't made to DIN.

Same goes for el cheapo chinese screwdrivers.

 

[ptgarcia]

Having read a ton of threads for JIS screws and screwdriver, I have come to the conclusion that any reputable *european* and *new* screwdriver (witte, wiha, wera etc) should work with old JIS hardware. Vessel and other made in japan screwdrivers obviously will work too. JIS standard doesnt exist any more and has been merged with latest DIN.

Dont tell me your 20 year phillips #2 doesnt work well, it won't.

Dont tell me your new american phillips #2 doesnt work, it won't because it wasn't made to DIN.

Same goes for el cheapo chinese screwdrivers.

Yep, if made to the DIN standard (I don't know the number off the top of my head) it works well on old JIS and new Japanese screws. I love my Vessel drivers and usually reach for one when working on motorcycles, but my Wiha driver works equally as well.

 

[cherrybomb]

What is that DIN number we should know when purchasing new cross points?

 

[slowtwitch73]

A well chosen Phillips or flat head from any epoch will work just fine in the hands of a non-***** for bicycles.

 

[KnurledNut]

What is that DIN number we should know when purchasing new cross points?

DIN 5260-PH/ISO 8763-1

 

[Pexto]

A well chosen Phillips or flat head from any epoch will work just fine in the hands of a non-***** for bicycles.

I've worked in high-end bike shops, and been wrenching on bikes for 50 years, and I steadfastly maintain that some older high quality Phillips drivers are nearly unusable on JIS derailleur limit screws.

Come on up, I'll show you, we'll agree, and I'll buy the beer. Fetchez la vache!

 

[egdede]

As a young man buying not just used motorcycles, but old worked on motorcycles, I just figured everyone of the mechanics before was a clumsy gorilla (from all the F'd up 'Philips' screws : )

 

[ptgarcia]

As a young man buying not just used motorcycles, but old worked on motorcycles, I just figured everyone of the mechanics before was a clumsy gorilla (from all the F'd up 'Philips' screws : )

Most of them are, regardless of the tools they use.

 

[Bubba Fett]

The DIN standard has superseded the JIS standard. Most newer screwdrivers from high quality manufacturers should fit. I have some Klein and even newer Craftsman Phillips drivers that fit JIS screws (with the little dimple) perfectly. I compared them to some JIS bits and found no real difference, but older Phillips drivers have a sharper "point" than newer ones, and they do not fit JIS screw very well. I also have some Western Forge (Craftsman and Husky) drivers that wouldn't properly fit anything*, but that was probably due to poor manufacturing.

That's not to say you shouldn't get Vessel drivers. They are very high quality.

* They fit now, thanks to some time with a micro-file set.

 

[Bubba Fett]

Gonna walk back my previous comment a bit....

Looking through some screws, I decided to try various drivers with several JIS screws I have. Some screws with a dimple on the screwhead, some with a tiny J on the screwhead. Most of these came from computers and various electronics, as I have a habit of removing and saving screws from old machines that are about to be scrapped.

There seems to be a little variance between the two, and some drivers that fit one very don't fit the other so well. Most of my insert bits and x-in-1 drivers seem to fit better than standalone drivers. Of all the drivers I have, the SBD Craftsman acetate-handle drivers (from Lowe's) fit the best. I have to admit I was surprised by that. That said, I think I'll treat myself to some Vessel drivers for shiggles.

 

[MJK]

You'll love them. My old cars have the dots on the JIS screws and Vessels are much much much better than old style Phillips bits on them. I had a plastic fuel rail with a brass insert was secured to an aluminum intake manifold on one of them - been 'stuck' for years. Vessel + wrench = loud pop and it was loose with no stripping. You could have sat on my previous set and it would have cammed out.

I went a little screwdriver crazy a while ago, and find myself reaching for the vessels the most for standard sizes.

 

[slowtwitch73]

I've worked in high-end bike shops, and been wrenching on bikes for 50 years, and I steadfastly maintain that some older high quality Phillips drivers are nearly unusable on JIS derailleur limit screws.

Come on up, I'll show you, we'll agree, and I'll buy the beer. Fetchez la vache!

Same here.. worked in many, started my own , sold it, my ex manager wrenches for nat'l cx team.. wasn't going to beat my chest but there you go.

We never had a stinking of eldeberry jis fruity type driver in the shop.

And..... as I said..... most are flat head compatible.

 

[alfazer]

I love the Vessel JIS.
But remember that little double-ended screwdriver that came in the toolkit of Japanese cars and motorcycles in the 80's? Actually worked pretty well because it was JIS.

 

[slowtwitch73]

 

[Odd-job]

nooooooo!

 

[BombShelter]

Learning about JIS a few years ago was eye-opening, I have a large collection of Boomboxes and Walkmans and they always had that one screw that wouldn't come out, usually the little-tinie, tiny one. A Vessel JIS Set set saved a ton of players that never got that replacement belt, sitting in cue for years. Even stuck screws missing tons of metal from crappy Philips Drivers would still move with JIS Drivers.

Most of these aren't labeled but you can feel a really positive grip when you hear that virgin break-away "pop" of a non-molested box.