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Are welding/ oxy tanks expensive? For welding?

CafeTools

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This came up for sale listed as a cutting and soldering torch with oxy acetylene. My question is I just bought a multi process wire feed welder and NEED gas for welding.

Can I fill one with wire feed gas? Type?
Can I fill the smaller one with aluminum gas? Argon?

Good deal for $200? Comes with everything in pic.
 

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Lwel9226

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That is an Oxygen/Acetylene welding/cutting outfit.... $200. would be a good price....
As rlitman stated... those cylinders cannot be filled with C25 or Argon....

LW
 

unslow1

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Often times those tanks are actually lease/rentals. They may have something stamped on them.
 
OP
C

CafeTools

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OK thanks. I usually cut with my M18 metal circular saw. So I thought if I could have used these for welding that would be a good price.
 

cvairwerks

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The only difference between the tanks for O2 and welding gasses is the valve on top. Acetylene tanks have a porous material inside them and a different pressure rating as well as a different construction. Some vendors have the gas type embossed as part of the identification ring.
 

matt_i

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Don't overlook the need for oxyacet. Its not used as often as welding in my shop but an absolute project saver at times. The intense heat is close to the most powerful tool in the shop.
 

dr_clyde

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Most welding supply houses will let you swap cylinders of similar size for different gases. A cylinder is a cylinder to them, you’re just paying for the gas.

Matt is right though, I’d keep them as oxy-acetylene if you don’t already have one. Very, very handy.
 

driz

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OK thanks. I usually cut with my M18 metal circular saw. So I thought if I could have used these for welding that would be a good price.



Honestly I all but gave up using tanks, the prices just hot too stupid and I manage well enough with whiz wheels , cut offs and my Mikita skill saw and metal disks.
If you do get a set of torches don’t buy small bottles! They cost as much as the big ones[emoji82] to get filled so keep that in mind. You can often find really nice older Craftsman torches on Craig’s List if you’re in the market.
As I always say “ AVOID AIRGAS LIKE THE PLAGUE”. That’s their free advertisement[emoji2955]! Try to stick to a mom n pop place if they haven’t already been run out of business or bought up by Airgas.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

cvairwerks

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Doc: You’d be surprised at how many new builders with no welding experience think they can buy a cheap Mig unit and start making flightworthy welds in 4130 tubing with walls under .049” after a couple hours of screwing around with running some beads on a piece of scrap plate.
 

dr_clyde

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Doc: You’d be surprised at how many new builders with no welding experience think they can buy a cheap Mig unit and start making flightworthy welds in 4130 tubing with walls under .049” after a couple hours of screwing around with running some beads on a piece of scrap plate.

Unfortunately I know. It’s why I don’t follow home grown trailers down the highway.

I feel like at least airplane building is a self regulated industry / Darwin regulated to some extent. It either flies or you die.
 

ZRX61

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Doc: You’d be surprised at how many new builders with no welding experience think they can buy a cheap Mig unit and start making flightworthy welds in 4130 tubing with walls under .049” after a couple hours of screwing around with running some beads on a piece of scrap plate.


Are you an A&P?

*Yes*


Oh! I have a home bui..


*Did I say yes? I meant no*


:lol_hitti:lol_hitti
 
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ZRX61

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This came up for sale listed as a cutting and soldering torch with oxy acetylene. My question is I just bought a multi process wire feed welder and NEED gas for welding.

Can I fill one with wire feed gas? Type?
Can I fill the smaller one with aluminum gas? Argon?

Good deal for $200? Comes with everything in pic.


I'm not sure where you live, but neither yellow or orange is for oxygen or acetylene. In fact, yellow/red collar is for nasty **** like chlorine. I think the yellow jug is industrial air though. No clue about orange.. unless it's R404A refrigerant?
 
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rlitman

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I'm not sure where you live, but neither yellow or orange is for oxygen or acetylene. In fact, yellow/red collar is for nasty **** like chlorine

There is no standard color for compressed gas cylinders. My large oxygen cylinder is orange.
 

dr_clyde

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I have an orange oxygen and a yellow acetylene in my cylinder rack waiting to go for exchange.

They’re from a place that’s no longer in business. They’ll be replaced with blue painted cylinders.

All welding supply houses have their own paint scheme. It’s not an industry standard.

In mine, argon blends are brown, oxy-acetylene is blue, helium blends are beige, co2 is grey, it goes on.
 

rlitman

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I've never seen an acetylene bottle that wasn't maroon

Funny, I've never owned one that wasn't black (or a dull zinc color).

...All welding supply houses have their own paint scheme. It’s not an industry standard...

True. But the color could also be for the customer. I've read about hospitals that color code oxygen cylinders, not for the contents, but to differentiate between steel and aluminum, because the steel tanks can be deadly near the strong magnetic fields of an MRI.
 

lis2323

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Honestly I all but gave up using tanks, the prices just hot too stupid and I manage well enough with whiz wheels , cut offs and my Mikita skill saw and metal disks.
If you do get a set of torches don’t buy small bottles! They cost as much as the big ones[emoji82] to get filled so keep that in mind. You can often find really nice older Craftsman torches on Craig’s List if you’re in the market.
As I always say “ AVOID AIRGAS LIKE THE PLAGUE”. That’s their free advertisement[emoji2955]! Try to stick to a mom n pop place if they haven’t already been run out of business or bought up by Airgas.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Airgas has been owned for the last few years by Air Liquide which makes it even WORSE!!!
 

lis2323

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I've never seen an acetylene bottle that wasn't maroon



My Air Liquide oxygen are red and acetylene black.

cb78c8d308f733b0dd50c1679fde7a06.jpg

I just repurposed this IBC tote frame to cage my loose tanks. As you can see I don’t discriminate tanks by color.
2ea2e140b686817154be4e4f33a1b321.jpg

505d6c24a4d9a9a40a6fa94818e9351c.jpg
 

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Aaron_W

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I recently bought a welder and at that time bought the midsize tanks from my local gas supply who will fill or swap tanks, the advantage to swapping is I don't have to worry about the hydrotest or wait to get the tank filled. The advantage to keeping is I can keep a pretty tank.

I think mine are B size roughly 3 foot tall, about 9" diameter. I'm pretty sure the tank ran me around $180 + gas.


Couple of issues to think about if buying used from a private party. Tanks can go bad, an unscrupulous seller could be selling a tank that failed its hydrotest. Sellers have also sold rented tanks, so the first time you try to get if filled they repossess.
 

ekimneirbo

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Buying tanks reasonably cheaply can be done but you have to know a few things. First, you need to check with your local welding gas supplier and find out what they say are the rules they have for refilling tanks. If you buy a large 300/330 cu ft tank, they are cheaper to refill per cu ft. Ask about tank refill costs and see how much difference there is.
Those large tanks are generally for industrial customers and many/all suppliers WILL NOT refill them unless you have documented proof of ownership from the company who sold you the bottles....and many will not sell large bottles to individuals. Signed reciepts from individuals or auctions are not valid ....at least in my state...and they say its a federal law. On the other hand a company in Az told me that was a lie. So check out what they say in your area.
Anyway, the tank will have a cast in name at the top of the bottle so you can tell who owns it. Problem there is that these gas companies sell out to larger companies with different names. All is not lost though, because there are tanks that actually have no name cast on them. Supposedly the problem is that it is illegal for a gas company to refill a tank from another company. If the tank has no name cast on it, then any company should refill it for you.

On the smaller tanks, they are usually sold to individuals so all of what I said above normally doesn't apply and any company can fill them....but check with your local supplier to verify .

You can usually buy tanks very cheaply at auctions and somewhat more expensive on Craigslist. Doesn't matter how ratty they look....you can paint them later. What you want to look for is the type of gas they held. Tanks almost never go bad and some of the ones in service are almost a century old. Tanks can be purged and switched to hold different gases in some cases . Normally most people use a 75/25 mix for mig welding. 75% Argon 25% CO2
Almost any used and abused tank you find is going to need to be recertified.
When you go to buy a used tank, that is a good thing to point out to the seller in order to get a better price. Tanks cannot be refilled if they are out of certification.
You also might check with your local gas distributor and see what they charge to do a recertify. If they don't do that, ask who they send their tanks to for recert. If they won't help, then find another company that will. My local company sends them out and takes about 2 weeks to get them back. Bout $40 I think. Anyway, take your tank to them and when they recertify it they will also refill it and you are good to go....for 10 years.

At the top of the tank there will be some larger numbers stamped which signify the date of certification. Next to the numbers will be a + and a star. That means its certified for 10 years. Watch the video below for a better explanation.


When I get a tank, I sand it a little and paint it close to the color that it had on it. Then I make a stencil and paint my name on it in a bright color near the top. I also write what kind of gas I want in it....like ARGON or 75/25 . Then it stands out easily when you pick it back up.
 
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pstemari

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One other thing to be aware of is that some sizes are only owner bottles, never rental bottles. If you stick to buying those sizes, then the entire issue never comes up.

Per <https://groups.io/g/seattlemetalheads/message/44984>,

All 150 cf and 92 cf high pressure cylinders are owner cylinders. All 75 cf acetylene cylinders are owner cylinders.

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Muggzy

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I picked up a couple of small cylinders from a retiring plumber (20cf and 40cf) for cheap. One was CO2, the other refrigerant. AllGas swapped them to an 80cf argon tank for me.

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dr_clyde

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I’m so incredibly happy my welding supply doesn’t horse around with this ****. If your money is green, they’ll sell you whatever you want.
 

3 Gun Shooter

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The only difference between the tanks for O2 and welding gasses is the valve on top. Acetylene tanks have a porous material inside them and a different pressure rating as well as a different construction. Some vendors have the gas type embossed as part of the identification ring.

Acetylene tanks are filled with balsa wood and acetone. Acetylene if under pressure needs to be 'mixed' with a liquid so it is not unstable.

If you look at your acetylene gauge you will see a red area past 15 PSI. Any pressures over 15 PSI acetylene becomes unstable and explosive unless in a liquid.
 

ekimneirbo

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I’m so incredibly happy my welding supply doesn’t horse around with this ****. If your money is green, they’ll sell you whatever you want.
Many many years ago when I bought my first welding tanks, thats the way the company operated. After selling out and then another buy out, the company only cares about its corporate accounts. Used to just walk in and swap tanks (even though I owned some). Now they archived the records and peolple can't prove ownership. Luckily I had refilled some tanks in the last couple years and they had my record on their computer. Guy let me take a picture of the computer screen. Went to another local company that had opened more recently and as luck would have it, they had a former employee of my original company working there. He looked at the picture I had and told me that the "C" in a column meant "customer owned". They copied it to their computer and now I do business exclusively with them.
A friend of mine retired and gave me his old tanks that he had no papers on. Since they were the same as the ones I had, I can get them refilled too because my new company only knows that I have papers for that size tank.
They don't know I now have more than 1 of them. Don't think they care, but didn't ask. Bought some smaller tanks at auctions. Cleaned them and painted them. Took them to the new company got them recerted and filled. Got lots of tanks now and no problems.

Now while its nice to be able to buy any tank at a gas supplier, its usually the most expensive route. Anyone who can find used tanks cheaply($50-$100) that need to be recertified can usually save some money. Just push the fact to the seller that the bottles are out of certification and its going to cost you money. Most sellers don't have any use for the tanks anyway, so wave the money if they hesitate.

Best welding carts are the ones with BIG wheels.
 

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Crazyjake8493

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Those exact tanks cannot be filled with a different gas, but could likely be exchanged for different tanks of the gas that is needed.

I got an oxy-acet setup several years ago in a trade, and since I had no use for them I swapped out the tanks at the LWS for an argon tank for TIG welding, and a CO2 tank for my kegerator. Both tanks were essentially being downsized so I only paid for the cost of the gas in the two tanks I received.
 
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