Argh.. Plumber not calling back

[Ryland]

I had been going back and forth with a plumbing company in Dec/Jan timeframe to move my heating system once the insulation was up in the addition. In January I asked them for an updated quote with having them install the two new zones (baseboard, valves, the whole 9 yards) and never heard from them. I called on Tuesday morning and talked with the owners wife who said she would call me right back, nothing by Wed afternoon so I called again, its now Friday afternoon and still nothing.

Argh.

 

[Sterff]

Time for a new plumber maybe...

 

[benjamming]

If they are that difficult on the sales side where they try to convine you to give them money, imagine what it might be like on the service side.

 

[tdkkart]

Call somebody else, there's alot of hungry guys out there right now.

I called 3-4 places to do a furnace job 2 years ago, only 1 bothered to call me back, fortunately it was the guy that I kinda wanted to do it anyway. 2 weeks after I had taken his bid 2 of the other guys called back, I told them they had been outbid.

 

[ket-tek]

Unfourtunatly this seems to be the case with an awful lot of trades/contractors these days.

They all ***** about how slow work is but they never call back or show up reliably if at all. Sometimes it's a chore to try to give them your money, other times they take it and run...

It may be best to call a larger corprate sytle outfit in your area. That has a real dispatching/scheduling system, sales force, and will be more likely to uphold warranties. These places will be more expensive but you get what you pay for..

 

[HoosierBuddy]

What is it with plumbers?

When I built my garage the GC had a plumber he used on all his jobs. I met with the guy and he started telling me how he was going to have to run the sanitary lines for the bathroom in the upstairs bonus area EXPOSED in the garage as it would be difficult to get them hidden in the exterior wall (exterior to the garage...shared with the attached house).

After talking to the guy for 15 minutes I called the GC and said, "this guy is a jack-leg. I don't want him on the job." The GC didn't want to hire someone else because this guy did a lot of work with him so I finally just had him take all plumbing out of the contract and I plumbed it all myself.

And I'm glad I did too. If I ever have to change jobs, I think I want to be a plumber. I really enjoy it and it was a great opportunity for me to get to do it. When I was done plumbing the bathroom and floor drains for the garage, I went ahead and installed the boiler too. Saved a little money. Had a ball.

It would be awesome to be a plumber. Fun work. Challenging, but not rocket science. Pay can be pretty good too (assuming you can get the customer's to pay up).

Phil

 

[Red05GT]

Go to the local plumbing supply house and get the first three names the counter man
recomends and call them. If the plumber is jacking you around now, it won't get any
better. Keeping your project on track is your main priority.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

The Plumbing Business is beyond "HUNGRY" We in our company went from 78 men to 25 and now down to 15. Basically we call back but we schedule the work so its effiecient for us. We used to have men on staff to cover emergencies ..but its too costly to have a few on standby. The term HUNGRY ... its exactly the oppsosite ..we used to take work at a minumal profit when it was slow ..just to keep working ..but now we actually keep the markup right up where its supposed to be and do it with less men.

There is a shortage of Plumbing Co's ...some out of business and a buch just cut staff so significantly and others ..like the one you speak about is probably the guy and his wife and he responds when he catches up ?

As someone said here ... ask a counter guy at the supply house ...

Ron

 

[jvitez]

The Plumbing Business is beyond "HUNGRY" We in our company went from 78 men to 25 and now down to 15. Basically we call back but we schedule the work so its effiecient for us. We used to have men on staff to cover emergencies ..but its too costly to have a few on standby. The term HUNGRY ... its exactly the oppsosite ..we used to take work at a minumal profit when it was slow ..just to keep working ..but now we actually keep the markup right up where its supposed to be and do it with less men.

There is a shortage of Plumbing Co's ...some out of business and a buch just cut staff so significantly and others ..like the one you speak about is probably the guy and his wife and he responds when he catches up ?

As someone said here ... ask a counter guy at the supply house ...

Ron

What a bizarre time we live in. High unemployment, but laying off workers to keep supply tight to keep profit up to make customers tolerate mediocre service. If Adam Smith was right, which I believe he was, where are all these laid off plumbers working for themselves trying to provide service to customers? Now driving profit out of an enterprise is unhealthy, but I would have thought supply & demand would be fixing this rather quickly.

Or are there enough welfare type benefits, and are we rich enough really, that not working is OK for a lot of people?

I tried to find a contractor to drywall my garage. I called four of them: the job was either too big or too small.

 

[rodnok1]

I agree, if they don't have the courtesy to call you back now, what happens when they stop showing up or there is a problem when finished...time to move on.

 

[Ryland]

We finally were able to get 2 different plumbing companies to come in and look at the job so they can give us quotes. The first company is "slow right now" so they could start within a few days whereas the other company won't even start putting the quote together until Monday and they have at least a 3 week backlog.

The company originally slated to do the work is the one that doesn't even call back when they say they will.

My wife wants me to keep calling them because they DID come in a few months back and move our powervent for us at no charge.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

where are all these laid off plumbers working for themselves trying to provide service to customers?

Maybe there working now ... or supplimenting side work for cash and collecting unemployment ... put the business out of business.

Ron

 

[LoneGunman]

You couldn't pay me enough to be a plumber, doing your own work and enjoying is a very different than doing it for customers. Then there's that pesky license requirement that requires 4 or 5 years in the trade before you can do it on your own legally.

I'm an electrician, love doing my own work, even the plumbing but I've spent enough times on jobs to see what they do on a day to day basis. Every old plumber I have met has a bad back and knees. Carrying tubs up stairs has got to get old real quick.

You didn't mention your current job so who knows, maybe you are a logger and plumbing would be a less back breaking job.

What is it with plumbers?

When I built my garage the GC had a plumber he used on all his jobs. I met with the guy and he started telling me how he was going to have to run the sanitary lines for the bathroom in the upstairs bonus area EXPOSED in the garage as it would be difficult to get them hidden in the exterior wall (exterior to the garage...shared with the attached house).

After talking to the guy for 15 minutes I called the GC and said, "this guy is a jack-leg. I don't want him on the job." The GC didn't want to hire someone else because this guy did a lot of work with him so I finally just had him take all plumbing out of the contract and I plumbed it all myself.

And I'm glad I did too. If I ever have to change jobs, I think I want to be a plumber. I really enjoy it and it was a great opportunity for me to get to do it. When I was done plumbing the bathroom and floor drains for the garage, I went ahead and installed the boiler too. Saved a little money. Had a ball.

It would be awesome to be a plumber. Fun work. Challenging, but not rocket science. Pay can be pretty good too (assuming you can get the customer's to pay up).

Phil

 

[Ron Lombardo]

You couldn't pay me enough to be a plumber, doing your own work and enjoying is a very different than doing it for customers. Then there's that pesky license requirement that requires 4 or 5 years in the trade before you can do it on your own legally.

I'm an electrician, love doing my own work, even the plumbing but I've spent enough times on jobs to see what they do on a day to day basis. Every old plumber I have met has a bad back and knees. Carrying tubs up stairs has got to get old real quick.

You didn't mention your current job so who knows, maybe you are a logger and plumbing would be a less back breaking job.

Amen ... I have been a Plumber / Pipefitter for 26 years, have licenses, Mech Eng and I have to say, I now own my own business but worked in the field in ny while going to school at night and your right. Every Plumber I know not only has a bad back, bad knees and is divorced ... because customers will call you 24hrs of the day and make you work 365 days of the year and demand the world of you. I used to stay in the office from 7 to 7pm now pm the answering machine goes on and only the Best customers who truly know how to respect a emergency cell phone get my #.

A simple thought ...like the quote says " an educated consumer is our best customer" ... we want customers who maintain equipment, plan ahead on projects, trust us enough to do time and materials jobs pricing, who have an idea of what they want ..not call us for an estimate and ideas then take the ideas and we then bid against ourselves.

I'm not saying thats 100% the reasona nd your a bad customer ... but give the guy the benefit of the doubt ..its not an easy business, 99% of the time you arrive home exhausted, late at night to a cold dinner.

I was told by an old timer ... they dont pay us enough for the time we spent in school and the hours we spend in the field.

My 2 cents.

Ron

 

[NUTTSGT]

My wife wants me to keep calling them because they DID come in a few months back and move our powervent for us at no charge.

That was mighty nice of them, but I'd still be looking for another plumber. They moved it for free because they thought they had your job locked up.

too bad, so sad, sorry but you never called back with a quote, so I got somebody else

 

[Ryland]

That was mighty nice of them, but I'd still be looking for another plumber. They moved it for free because they thought they had your job locked up.

too bad, so sad, sorry but you never called back with a quote, so I got somebody else

That is basically what I figure. I called again today and talked to the wife who was surprised that the owner hasn't called me back yet. I received another quote for over double what this quote was for but the new one also included installing baseboard for 2 new zones, although I don't understand why that would be $4600 for just that.

 

[red]

Maybe that's why He is not calling you back! He made a mistake in the estimate and telling the customer never comes off well. Know quite a few contractors that would give outrageously high bids on customers they did not want to do the work for. If they customer said yes they usually did the job because they could not say no at that price and in realty were being compensated in advance for a problem customer.

Really time to move on or ask if if there's a problem with the estimate. Point out you want to be fair and not take advantage if there was a mistake. Good luck

 

[Ryland]

Well he finally called back last night and gave me the 2nd estimate I was looking for which brings the total up to $6900 for the whole job which I have no clue if that is a good price or not. What he is doing is:

The $4000 section of the quote:
- Already extended the exhaust pipe into the new basement
- Move the existing oil fired boiler into the new basement along with all of the feeds and returns for it.
- Bringing the existing boiler up to code.
- Installing a new oil tank and transferring the oil from the old tank to the new one. Removing the old tank.

The $2900 section of the quote:
- Rerouting existing return line on the 2nd floor
- Moving/replacing a section of baseboard
- Removing another section of baseboard
- Installing new 2nd floor heating zone
- Installing new 1st floor heating zone

 

[Boiler]

It seems like nobody wants work these days. I had some work done to my living room a couple years ago. 2 new walls, ceiling, floor refinished, windows, etc. Getting people to quote it was a pain, and when we finally had people to do the jobs, we'd be LUCKY if they did anything in the time they said they would. Basically they worked from 10 to lunch, then a couple hours in the late afternoon, or not at all.

I find the same problems when I'm looking to have metal parts machined, lasered, or bent. I send people .pdf files and cad files and ask for a quote, with quanities and all the needed details, and I have to beat them over the head just to get me a quote in a week. Then I have to badger them constantly to get my parts when they said I would. I don't want to be an annoying customer, but if you don't bug the **** out of people it seems like most of them will just forget about your work. Guess I'm a small fish for them or something.

 

[Ryland]

Just received the 3rd quote...$11,500 for the same job. Which puts the range from $6900-$11,500 for the above mentioned work.

 

[HOTFR8]

Sounds to me like that 1st place is just to busy to do the job and from that I would say because they have not called you back they are doing their busy a lot of damage. If they are to busy at present they should at least tell you so.

Start looking for another plumber and each time you talk to a new plumber repeat the name of the plumber that never gets back to you.

 

[Ryland]

I still don't know why the first place hadn't responded until yesterday but they are starting work next week.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

" Sounds to me like that 1st place is just to busy to do the job .... at 6900 is too cheap and thats why hes soo busy and cant call you back ... but when the musics stops he will see the chekcing account is empty ... everyone deserves a fair days wages for a fair days pay.

The State of NJ requires you pass a Business part of the License exam which outlines the basics of estimating.

Ron

 

[Ryland]

I have no idea what a fair rate is for the work involved but $6900 seems more than fair for what should come out to 2 days worth of work for 2-3 guys.

 

[NUTTSGT]

keep us informed of what they work like this week. Hopefully, they won't drag their feet completing the job like they did getting back with you.

 

[Ryland]

Unfortunately they are dragging their feet. They started on Wed and will HOPEFULLY be done on Monday. Something supposedly "came up" that sidelined them from finishing on Thursday and Friday (in their defense this is one the area's that was hardest hit by the April flooding so there is plenty of work for them).

 

[Ryland]

Day 6 since start and the boiler is now moved into its new location and the oil has been transferred to the new tank. No new baseboards are hooked in though and they have at least another full day tomorrow and no ETA on hooking up new baseboard (maybe waiting for drywall to be done?)

 

[Red05GT]

This saga make's me think back to when I was contracting full time. The subs were
many times the factor in jobs falling off track. A friend asked me for HVAC company
references recently. I gave him a couple to add to the two he was already getting
quotes from. The one guy I highly recommended works alone and does exceptional
work. But like many contractors/subs, he is a great tradesman, not a great time
manager/businessman. He got the quote together and showed up unannouced at the
friends house to drop off the quote in the door. My friend was ready to go and asked
the HVAC guy when he could start and his reply was, "anytime, I don't have any work
right now." The sad thing is many tradesmen are stretched too thin, and just get
overwhelmed when it comes to the every day nuts and bolts of running a business.

 

[Ryland]

Day 7. It looks like they are hooking up the 2 existing zones to the boiler (luckily it was "Warm" last night since we had no heat). They did say that all of the lines have been pressure tested so that is good.

Edit:
Well they are "done" until drywall is up and they can install the new baseboard. The boiler and lines are really neatly layed out unlike how they originally were. I realized about 4am that I should have asked them to put 'T's' in for the new kitchen sink. The only thing I have found that they missed doing was capping the old copper heating run that is bypassed.

 

[Ryland]

The Inspector failed the boiler. The overflow pipe is slightly too short and a valve is needed on one side of the pressure reducer. Should be easy fixes for the heating company.

 

[Ryland]

better fine a new plumber, than you have now.

____________________
Rancho Ford F-350 Super Duty Shock Absorber and Strut Assembly - RS5000

The inspector considered both issues to be "minor".

 

[72Tunaboat]

Can you post some photos of the work that's been done, and of your mechanical room?

 

[Ryland]

Here is a picture of the finished job without the two changes requested. The mechanical room is the new basement of the addition.

 

[Ryland]

Heating has passed mechanical inspection. Only two issues I have found since then is that where the oil line connects to the boiler wasn't quite tight enough so there was a slow drip of oil running down the inside of the orange cover and dripped back near the tank. The other issue was that one PEX connection to a right angle connector wasn't tight enough so it dripped in my brand new ceiling the morning after I tested the run. I found it while the carpet guys were installing and I panicked them by asking how long their nails were....talk about a mess since I still have to redo that section of ceiling.

On a weird note I have still not been billed for the heating work which is weird.