Argon/CO2

[Kenskip1]

OK Now that I have taken the leap with my Lincoln 140 Mig, I am surprisingly shocked at the cost of the Argon/CO2. I called one of my local suppliers and was told that they required a three year lease along with a deposit of $300 plus the cost of the gas.I told the person that I did not require a large tank as I am just a hobbyist.Anyway he stuck like epoxy to his original figure.
Is there a less expensive way to get a small bottle without having to refinance my home?Couldn't I purchase my own bottle? Thanks, Ken

 

[helterskelter]

Find a different supplier. Here in Texas I bought my own bottle off craigslist for $100. Then it's ~$38 to have it filled with argon (TIG welding).

 

[CrashmanS]

I agree, shop around. I do a 3 year lease but the lease fee includes the first fill. But my local gas supply only keeps their bottles on hand to trade. If you own it, they have to send it away and bring it back a week later. Lease customers just switch them out.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[Mhyde52]

The whole compressed gas cylinder screw-job is getting old. Find a different supplier if they want to lease you a small tank. Find a new supplier if they want a "deposit". Find a new supplier if they have to "send out your tank". There are reasonable welding shops around. They do not "have" to do any of the above things. They choose to.

 

[braidmeister]

All suppliers I've every dealt with required a deposit. My 'S' size bottles were $150 deposit each. Seems this has come down a bit recently.

They WON'T FILL anything but their own bottles as they say they have to be inspected and certified etc. Given the pressures these things hold, $300 in escrow is worth me not blowing the roof off my shop.

It's not the suppliers yanking your crank as much as the insurance companies' requirements for bottles - which probably varies with locale. What else is new...

 

[Fordman7795]

If you dont use it a lot you can buy a cylinder from tractor supply and swap it out for a new full one at the store. I bought a lincoln welder on CL that came with their smallest 75/25 tank. I sold the welder and kept the tank. It is around $30 to swap for a full one.

 

[Fordman7795]

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/shielding-gas-cylinder-1-size-20-cu-ft

Mind you this is a very small tank but if you arent welding every day itll be ok.

 

[c4cruiser]

The local Airgas sells various sizes of cylinders for C25. They are usually re-certified bottles but they also have new bottles if that's what you want. The original sale of the cylinder doesn't include the cost of the gas, but that's because customers may want different types of gas. When the cylinder is empty, just return it for a same-size filled bottle.

A multi-year lease and a big deposit is BS.

 

[TK-421]

I'd find a different supplier. I can't imagine those bottles hold any more pressure than the 4500psi bottles I used in paintball, and I never had to put down a deposit on one, or have a lease with a company, or have my tank sent off to be filled, so I doubt insurance has anything to do with it.

I'd buy a bottle and have them fill it, and if they won't fill it, then I'd find someone else who will.

 

[cgrutt]

Some places around me won't take a tank unless it's theirs (their suppliers) so you're better off picking a place and buying from them. I saved a couple bucks and bought a tank from ebay fortunately it was same one used at Tractor Supply. They gave me a hard time because it didn't have their sticker on it, but tank was identical. Tractor supply isn't such a bad deal if you have one locally and don't need much gas. I think refills for a small tank are about $40. You buy the tank and technically own it, but you have to swap them for a filled one. Good luck.

 

[cgrutt]

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/shielding-gas-cylinder-1-size-20-cu-ft

Mind you this is a very small tank but if you arent welding every day itll be ok.

That's a really small tank. Recommend going with at least a 40. I only got a couple of small projects done with a 40 (patch panel and some work on a toolbox). It goes quickly when you're having fun, LOL...

 

[M_George]

How much run time should I expect to get from a 40

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Here in San Diego, suppliers used to do 99 year leases (basically so they can maintain the cylinder, do the required hydro testing etc.) nowadays, I buy one of their "fleet" cylinder outright from them, but they still exchange it as if it were a lease cylinder. I have 16, 300 cu ft. cylinders in my shop and I believe the last one I bought was around $295. So, even though I 'own' it, in reality, I just own one of the cylinders in their fleet...no particular cylinder. If I ever wanted to 'take' my cylinder, they would just give me one of the 'fleet'.
I don't recommend cylinder 'rental' as they bend you over. Just buy it from them and be done with it. Remember too, that they charge a 'Hasmat' fee, and it's a flat rate based fee, so it pays to use a larger cylinder. Besides, the only time you run out of gas is 5 minutes after they close on Saturday!

 

[matt_i]

You can buy your own bottle which I did about 20 years back. But, the beautiful new tank got turned in on the first 'refill' to something definitely uglier, so its not exactly a refill but a empty-for-full bottle swap with the additional cost of the gas billed to you. There's a date stamp on the bottle, it has to be re-hydro-tested every 10 years at a cost of $25. I'm talking about 80-100cf tanks, forgot their exact capacities. I've moved to different states and had the bottles swapped there, nobody even batted an eyebrow. Almost time for a refill on 3 of 4 bottles in my shop (oxy, acet, 100Ar, 75Co2/25Ar).

 

[txvwnut]

OP shop around, the local to me Home Depot's sell welding bottles for less than the deposit amount you were quoted. I just bought a new 150cf argon for just over 2 bills a month ago.

 

[FigureItOut]

Did anybody suggest yet to find a different supplier? When I was getting set up the first two LWS's jacked me around a bit, either with crazy pricing and requirements or simply zero interest in my business. The third has been awesome and I've even learned quite a bit from those guys. I pay a couple bucks a month for my MIG mix bottle.

If you try every LWS in your area and one doesn't stand out as being your guys, the biggest bottles at TSC aren't a terrible deal. Plus, you have the benefit of weekend and evening access, LWS usually keep banker's hours.

 

[laser3kw]

They WON'T FILL anything but their own bottles as they say they have to be inspected and certified etc

Any gas supplier that fills cylinders cannot fill a cylinder that does not have a current hydrostat test - that is the "inspected and certified" part.
Basically, they stated to you, that they must do their required job.
They can fill any cylinder from any source as long as it meets the requirements for the product that goes in it. They chose not to. To bad the turn away business.

 

[royesses]

I bought a 150 cf cylinder at my local airgas for $190.00 and it was filled with 100% argon for free. They just swap it out when empty and charge for the gas. The policies seem to be different from city to city. Your attitude with them can determine what kind of deal you get.

 

[boomer12831]

The whole compressed gas cylinder screw-job is getting old. Find a different supplier if they want to lease you a small tank. Find a new supplier if they want a "deposit". Find a new supplier if they have to "send out your tank". There are reasonable welding shops around. They do not "have" to do any of the above things. They choose to.

Mhyde52 - Have you dealt with Haun Welding Supply? I have had very good luck with them

 

[Kenskip1]

Well looks like a trip to Tractor Supply tomorrow. $139 for a 20 cubic foot bottle filled and $229 for the larger 40 cubic foot one filled also.Thanks for the information! Ken

 

[MJD1]

How much run time should I expect to get from a 40

Typical flow rate would be about 30 cfh, so an hour and 20 minutes of weld time.

 

[dr_clyde]

I feel very fortunate that I have an excellent local welding supply that doesn't horse around with all the cylinder ownership BS. Need a cylinder of any size? You may purchase as many as you like, in whatever size you like. Found one on craigslist from the supply house down the street? They'll take it in on trade for a full one of theirs.

I have never once been asked to prove ownership, check a hydro date or get any "lease" bull. Hell, sometimes I need a strange mix, and they loan me the cylinder for free, I just pay for the gas and give it back when I'm done.


My cost on a 330 cf argon is less than $40. Same for argon/co2, and similar for oxygen. Acetylene is right around $50 for an 8" dia, and maybe $150 for the big *** 12" dia cylinders. Been awhile since I needed acetylene. This is for gas only, mind you.

Airgas, praxair and all the other big chains can kiss my ***, locally owned welding suppy houses are better.

OP, shop around. The big chains are a racket.

 

[B_Bimmer]

I envy you. Around here airgas is the easy to deal with one. It ain't cheap though.

 

[Mr_fixit]

I sometimes buy out of date cylinders from the scrap yard, Pay for the hydrotest, pay for the contents and swap them out again & again , paying for the contents when they're empty. Some people buy them off craigslist around here , too. My suggestion , find a local small local welding store that cares about every customer. My last acetelene cylinder cost 20.00 and had current test date. Also bought 4 air cylinders and swapped them out for oxygen, argon and argon c02 mix cylinders.
I'd imagine that someone will tell me that they're not supposed to sell them to me.

 

[bigdav160]

I own my own oxy/acetylene, C25 and Argon bottles. I've exchanged them many times at all the big names as well as the small LWS.

I never had an issue exchanging one brand of bottle for someone else's.

 

[Kenskip1]

Just a note. I called tractor Supply. For the small tank "only" it is $139 for the tank only.Now add the cost of the gas is another $54.Seems a bit pricey if you asked me.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

I don't know if it's regionally variable thing that has to do with supply / demand, but I've never paid for anything but the gas. You need to shop around and find a decent independent welding / gas supplier....and he's the only the only one open on Saturday for me to get a bottle for home / side jobs within 75 miles or so even though this a major metro area.

 

[braidmeister]

If you live in a machinery/blue collar/welding supply desert - you don't have as many options for getting bottles filled. If you want the gas, you've got to ante up for the deposit or deal with flux core booger welds. It is what it is.

Not every area has a welding shop on every corner like TX and other areas. You don't save any money driving all over the place trying to side step the bottle deposit...it IS a deposit and not a cost. Consider it a small savings account. You'll get it back again.

 

[dr_clyde]

A good welding supply should deliver, no having to drive all over hell's half acre looking for a decent gas place.

Get friendly with a salesman, they typically will deliver small orders, even to your house.

 

[cgrutt]

Just a note. I called tractor Supply. For the small tank "only" it is $139 for the tank only.Now add the cost of the gas is another $54.Seems a bit pricey if you asked me.

You're buying the tank so in future it will just be cost of refill. I found my tank online for much cheaper. I looked but can't find link. I think I paid about $140 shipped no tax for a new Thoroughbred 40 lb tank. They were about $220-$250 everywhere else. Tractor Supply and Home Depot use Thoroughbred (at least around me) so you should be good to go if you find one online. Keep in mind there are a lot of knockoffs without the certs so buyer beware. Good luck.

 

[Cope]

Prices and policies vary from dealer to dealer and region to region.

 

[nes999]

Here in San Diego, suppliers used to do 99 year leases (basically so they can maintain the cylinder, do the required hydro testing etc.) nowadays, I buy one of their "fleet" cylinder outright from them, but they still exchange it as if it were a lease cylinder. I have 16, 300 cu ft. cylinders in my shop and I believe the last one I bought was around $295. So, even though I 'own' it, in reality, I just own one of the cylinders in their fleet...no particular cylinder. If I ever wanted to 'take' my cylinder, they would just give me one of the 'fleet'.
I don't recommend cylinder 'rental' as they bend you over. Just buy it from them and be done with it. Remember too, that they charge a 'Hasmat' fee, and it's a flat rate based fee, so it pays to use a larger cylinder. Besides, the only time you run out of gas is 5 minutes after they close on Saturday!

Cylinder rental really depends on the welding store. I pay 1 to 1.50 a month depending on tank size. So when I know I have a larger project coming up I'll rent a few cylinders out of pure convenience.

 

[Fordman7795]

Just a note. I called tractor Supply. For the small tank "only" it is $139 for the tank only.Now add the cost of the gas is another $54.Seems a bit pricey if you asked me.

I assumed the tank would come filled but i bought mine used so i wasnt aware it was empty. I just called my local tractor supply and the exchange price is $28.99 for the smallest tank (the one i have) and $35.99 for the next step up.

 

[Kenskip1]

I assumed the tank would come filled but i bought mine used so i wasnt aware it was empty. I just called my local tractor supply and the exchange price is $28.99 for the smallest tank (the one i have) and $35.99 for the next step up.

The person that I spoke with at Tractor Supply told me that the $139 was for the smallest tank. This would be empty.Now add the $54 to have it filled.

 

[MoonRise]

re: How long does a cylinder of xyz size last?

Take cylinder size (in ft3) and divide by gas flow rate (in ft3/hr). That will give you the hours of gas flow that that size cylinder at that flow rate will 'last'.

ex: Most small MIG machines run the shielding gas flow rate at ~20 ft3/hr. So an 80 ft3 cylinder will last for ~4 hours of gas flow time (not exactly the same as 'welding' time, because of preflow and post flow, but close most of the time.) A tiny little 20 ft3 cylinder will only last 1 hour at that flow rate of 20 ft3/hr.

By me, Tractor Supply doesn't have the greatest price on the cylinders themselves, but seems competitive on the refill pricing.

So, buy the cylinder and just get it refilled there!

CyberWeld or IOC or other online welding supply places will sell you (last I checked a while ago) an 80 ft3 cylinder delivered to your door. IIRC, pricing was usually around $200 or so.

So I checked. Cyberweld will sell you an 80 ft3 inert gas cylinder for $202 empty. Add $43.75 filled with argon (for TIG on anything or MIG on aluminum) or argon-CO2 (I assume that would be the 'standard' C25 mix)

http://store.cyberweld.com/shielgascyl8.html

IOC has the empty 80 ft3 cylinder for $187 currently. Free shipping too. Add in their current 'save $15 on an order over $150' promo and you are down to $172 for the empty cylinder.

https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/80-cf-welding-cylinder-for-argon-nitrogen-helium-and-mixes

But a big YMMV, as local pricing on cylinders and refills varies all over the place.

I will suggest that you get the 'biggest' cylinder you can, as the price of the 'gas' is actually mostly the price to do all the 'handing' of the cylinder(s) and not really the price of the contents themselves (helium excluded, as helium is just expensive over the past few years).

80 ft3 cylinders aren't that hard to handle. Smaller ones are smaller and lighter, sure, but they run out faster and the price/ft3 of gas is way higher. If you can get a bigger cylinder and 'handle' it, get that. IMHO.

 

[big_bake]

I bought my bottle from the LWS, it was either buy upfront or lease. I don't weld full time so a lease doesn't make sense when the bottle sits unused for months on end. I just take it up there empty, they swap me for a full one, and I am just charged for the fill of gas. I'm sure if I was particular I could leave "my" tank with them to haul off and fill. Then come back next week to get it. But all the cylinders of C25 they sell look the same as the first one I bought. Plus you usually run out when you still need shielding gas.

 

[ovilla]

I feel very fortunate that I have an excellent local welding supply that doesn't horse around with all the cylinder ownership BS. Need a cylinder of any size? You may purchase as many as you like, in whatever size you like. Found one on craigslist from the supply house down the street? They'll take it in on trade for a full one of theirs.

I have never once been asked to prove ownership, check a hydro date or get any "lease" bull. Hell, sometimes I need a strange mix, and they loan me the cylinder for free, I just pay for the gas and give it back when I'm done.


My cost on a 330 cf argon is less than $40. Same for argon/co2, and similar for oxygen. Acetylene is right around $50 for an 8" dia, and maybe $150 for the big *** 12" dia cylinders. Been awhile since I needed acetylene. This is for gas only, mind you.

Airgas, praxair and all the other big chains can kiss my ***, locally owned welding suppy houses are better.

OP, shop around. The big chains are a racket.

Where are you located please and what's the name of your local welding supply shop? You anywhere near Chicagoland by chance? I'd like to get my cylinders filled but nobody wants to fill anything that doesn't already have their name on it. Such a damn hassle!

 

[Kenskip1]

Located in Central Missouri. Ozark Gas and Welding Supply. Sorry not anywhere near Chicago land. This is a scam. I may have to purchase another roll of flux core.

 

[braidmeister]

This is a scam. I may have to purchase another roll of flux core.

Everything has a price.

Not long ago you had to be a pro/have a business to even get gas.

 

[dr_clyde]

Where are you located please and what's the name of your local welding supply shop? You anywhere near Chicagoland by chance? I'd like to get my cylinders filled but nobody wants to fill anything that doesn't already have their name on it. Such a damn hassle!

I'm in Holland MI, and I do business with Purity Cylinder Gases. You'd basically swap yours with one of theirs, then charge you for the gas. I don't think they have any branches that far out though. Sorry.