Asphalt contractor created new drainage problem

[dchawk81]

TBH it sounds more and more like you started this thread to try to gain support for filing a charge back on your credit card and don't actually want real solutions.

I'd even go so far as to say if you filed a charge back, essentially getting your gravel paved for free, that puddle suddenly wouldn't be a problem anymore and you'd live with it.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's where the discussion seems to keep going.

 

[pr3dict]

TBH it sounds more and more like you started this thread to try to gain support for filing a charge back on your credit card and don't actually want real solutions.

I'd even go so far as to say if you filed a charge back, essentially getting your gravel paved for free, that puddle suddenly wouldn't be a problem anymore and you'd live with it.

Maybe I'm wrong but that's where the discussion seems to keep going.

The following quote is where I'm headed. The contractor alluded to the same thing saying he'll be back in a year and see that I didn't do anything but again those thoughts are baseless with the only evidence being the opinion that I would be a bad person to take advantage of the situation. To the contrary I tried to work with this contractor in good faith and he declined. So yeah, I was asking for support on what others have done with contractors that did not live up to their side of the agreement and left me in a worse place then before.

The following is what I am probably going to do based on how the estimates come back tomorrow. Don't forget. I didn't have to pay the guy anything the first day after he showed that the job wasn't done. I did it out of good faith.

The path forward depends on what the contractors come back with a cost to the new problem. I originally was going to pay $7700 roughly to have gravel paved AND fix the drainage issue. The proposed solution to just my drainage problem was $3500 by putting a pipe in.

I've paid $3000 so far as a sign of good faith after seeing that the now paved surface did not fix the drainage issue but they they would come back to fix that.

They came back and said we cant fix it for $7700. I offered to pay an additional $1000 to make it $8800 to fix the issue because even though I think they should have fixed it for the original price we agreed upon (That is their responsibility) I understand business and mistakes and was trying to be compassionate to them EVEN THOUGH THATS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY AS A CONSUMER. They still disagreed and decided to walk off with just $3000.

So now I have a paved driveway but I have a WORSE water problem then I did before. So my point on not paying comes down to what the new cost to fix will be. If I get an estimate to fix this new issue and it's $6000 or $7000 then I'm going to be in for $9000 or $10,000 when originally I was only supposed to be in for $7700. So If that's the case I'm sticking to my original number that I should have been in and thats the chargeback reason. I gave htem the opportunity to fix their mistake but they declined.

Now, if the estimate comes back and it's only $3000-4000 then sure I will call it a wash and wont charge back anything.

Leaving it the way it is is not an option and I should not have to bear the cost of fixing their bad business decision.

 

[dchawk81]

You've threatened chargebacks for work that's already been done, simply because the drainage didn't go as expected.

You do have a nice (IMO) new driveway up to your rear garage. But to you that's not even worth $3000.

 

[pr3dict]

You've threatened chargebacks for work that's already been done, simply because the drainage didn't go as expected.

You do have a nice (IMO) new driveway up to your rear garage. But to you that's not even worth $3000.

Lol yes that is corrext. have you read the thread or just some pieces?

There were two deliverables. This company essentially bid against others for a project to do two things. He won the job and only delivered one of the two things. You all seem to think that's fine and I should pay for partial work.

Imagine every time a company bids against another company for work they can't or don't expect to complete and they win but only do the portion of work they want and ask for payment on that portion. Think about that really hard before answering. Think about it from the other company's perspective that only said they could do 1 of the things and didn't win or another company that said they could do both but for more money. It's not fair or ethical to take a job and not complete it 100% and expect partial payment for what was done. Period. If you think otherwise then I have nothing else to talk about and please do not comment further on this thread as obviously there is something wrong with your logic.

 

[dchawk81]

I've read everything in its entirety.

It's unethical to think you can get any services without paying for it.

The only way I see a charge back as valid is if you get multiple quotes from various contractors and they all tell you the only option is to tear up what's there.

So far you haven't done that, which means you have a nice new driveway that happens to puddle.

Just about anyone can see that digging out the yard will solve the drainage issue without having to tear out the new asphalt, so I doubt you'd get 5 different quotes that say everything needs to be ripped out and started from scratch.

 

[gatewaysysop]

Since when did this place become so defensive of contractors that don't live up to their contract lol. It seems this entire thread has been people bashing me for accepting a supposedly experts proposal to fix an issue and then it didnt work. Obviously I'm going to be upset?

Unfortunately, it seems like the standard here is that folks will take either the "you didn't pay enough to expect good work," tactic or the blanket, "you're just an unreasonable customer" attitude to defend piss poor work by a so-called 'professional' of just about any stripe. I used to think it was people being contrarians and or perhaps trying to defend theirs or other trades, but I'm more inclined these days to believe that some people simply enjoy tearing other members down.

In any case, if these folks are licensed in some fashion, I'd say pursue a complaint against them. Signed contract or not, you've got them on video doing the work.

Charge backs have a time limit. I'd inquire with your card company about how long you have left, if you choose to go that route. There's no wiggle room once you pass the deadline.

 

[gmcgeo]

Lol.

 

[dchawk81]

Unfortunately, it seems like the standard here is that folks will take either the "you didn't pay enough to expect good work," tactic or the blanket, "you're just an unreasonable customer" attitude to defend piss poor work by a so-called 'professional' of just about any stripe. I used to think it was people being contrarians and or perhaps trying to defend theirs or other trades, but I'm more inclined these days to believe that some people simply enjoy tearing other members down.

In any case, if these folks are licensed in some fashion, I'd say pursue a complaint against them. Signed contract or not, you've got them on video doing the work.

Charge backs have a time limit. I'd inquire with your card company about how long you have left, if you choose to go that route. There's no wiggle room once you pass the deadline.

Or maybe just some sobering reality.

I sympathize with the OP and understand where he's coming from. I've already said that much. But there's wishes and there's reality.

He didn't get what he was expecting to pay for but he didn't pay for it either.

Personal experience, like of similar: I had an air line blow on my semi on Thursday. I paid road service to replace the entire line. They couldn't get the line off of a fitting so they patched in a section. I paid less for the patch than the complete line, even though I wanted an entire line.

Do I call my credit card and file a charge back?

 

[Zeke]

If Aaron Spelling was still alive he could have written a new soap opera based on this. If you don't remember, his shows never really ended.

 

[nadogail]

The unwritten details of a verbal contract with no statement of work to be accomplished and no documentation, this show will go on for years.

 

[John McA]

"...it's simple busseness economics 101."

Which actors would be cast for the series pilot?

 

[dchawk81]

"...it's simple busseness economics 101."

Which actors would be cast for the series pilot?

The OP would definitely be played by Tori.

 

[eegger]

The unwritten details of a verbal contract with no statement of work to be accomplished and no documentation, this show will go on for years.

CC company, the charge back will fail, Did you get a driveway , yes, is there a contract for deliverables? no.


And the Courts will love this,

Defendant, I told my client I will do my best to try and alleviate the drainage issue, and he will have a nice new driveway, but they elevation of the lawn may still cause an issue. case closed.


Please invite the contractor to the thread, so we can hear both sides.

 

[pr3dict]

CC company, the charge back will fail, Did you get a driveway , yes, is there a contract for deliverables? no.


And the Courts will love this,

Defendant, I told my client I will do my best to try and alleviate the drainage issue, and he will have a nice new driveway, but they elevation of the lawn may still cause an issue. case closed.


Please invite the contractor to the thread, so we can hear both sides.

Too bad we can't take bets on this... I'd love to make money on your ignorance lol.

Anyway. 2nd contractor came out a few minutes ago. "The original driveawy was fine. I have no idea why they decided to cut your driveway. Unfortunately, to fix this is going to require replacing the whole drivewave or fixing what they did and regrade down hill more significantly on the new piece. A lot of fixing someone else's work and that's not what we are in business for. Sorry, but we don't want to get involved."

So Clearly 2nd contractor feels the same way as the sane people in the group, the 1st won screwed up big time and left me in a bad place.

 

[pr3dict]

Personal experience, like of similar: I had an air line blow on my semi on Thursday. I paid road service to replace the entire line. They couldn't get the line off of a fitting so they patched in a section. I paid less for the patch than the complete line, even though I wanted an entire line.

Do I call my credit card and file a charge back?

You had one end goal in mind though, which was to have a functioning air line. Your method of making that happen was substituted for a different less expensive option but atleast it was done. In my case, my goal was never met. They did not do any of the other options available to fix the problem.

Your scenario would be more like mine if they put a patch in and it had a small leak but they told you, "hey it still kinda works. Pay us a little bit for it kinda working."

See the difference?

 

[Bent Handle]

Did the new contractor tell you your yard was too high?

 

[pr3dict]

Did the new contractor tell you your yard was too high?

No. The pictures you are looking at are only one perspective. The other side of the driveway plane (where the old driveway ended before they cut it) is lower. My house is essentially on a hill. The backyard slopes down the sideyard has that hump but is still lower then the house and the front yard is fairly flat but does go downhill away from the house slightly.

The driveway, being lower then the side yard should not matter as it used to pitch back towards the yard that was lower then it. I Created the first drainage problem by putting the gravel in and not digging enough of the old ground out to make it be lower. Thus creating that original puddle.

The 1st asphalt contractor made it worse by cutting my original driveway and lifting a portion of it so the water now further up the driveway. You look at those photos and think the water should go straight out into the higher ground but in reality it should be going to the left down where the old driveway was and essentially was repaved higher. Does that make sense?

 

[gmcgeo]

I see a new problem arise, and another contractor not getting paid.

 

[pr3dict]

I see a new problem arise, and another contractor not getting paid.

You're just such a cutie...

 

[gmcgeo]

You're just such a cutie...

depends what make-up i have on that day

 

[gmcgeo]

question, Do you want the water to run down the driveway? or no water on the driveway at all?

 

[dchawk81]

You had one end goal in mind though, which was to have a functioning air line. Your method of making that happen was substituted for a different less expensive option but atleast it was done. In my case, my goal was never met. They did not do any of the other options available to fix the problem.

Your scenario would be more like mine if they put a patch in and it had a small leak but they told you, "hey it still kinda works. Pay us a little bit for it kinda working."

See the difference?

My goal was to get out of the customer lot. It's still at the dealer as that line was just good enough to not need towed.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

OP. I also think you will find the chargeback from the credit card will not be as automatic as you think.

I went round and round with my credit card company on a charge back on a $50 restaurant bill where the restaurant double charged me for the same meal. The restaurant stuck to their guns, insisted they were right and I never got $50 back.

If it's fraud? The CC company has your back. But if the vendor is a legit business and sticks to their guns (in my case they did it (I HOPE) not realizing they really had made a mistake)...my experience was the credit card company basically washed their hands of it.

I personally wouldn't do the charge back for some of the reasons others have posted....but if you do attempt it, please report on how that goes.

 

[pr3dict]

question, Do you want the water to run down the driveway? or no water on the driveway at all?

Lol I'm done answering your questions until you answer mine... What is your business's name? I wanna read the google reviews to see if you have 2.5 star rating or a 2.7.

My goal was to get out of the customer lot. It's still at the dealer as that line was just good enough to not need towed.

So your goal was met. My goal was not met. Granted my goal had a higher standard to be successful it was still the agreed upon goal.

 

[gmcgeo]

Lol I'm done answering your questions until you answer mine... What is your business's name? I wanna read the google reviews to see if you have 2.5 star rating or a 2.7.


So your goal was met. My goal was not met. Granted my goal had a higher standard to be successful it was still the agreed upon goal.

I feel your contractors pain...

 

[pr3dict]

OP. I also think you will find the chargeback from the credit card will not be as automatic as you think.

I went round and round with my credit card company on a charge back on a $50 restaurant bill where the restaurant double charged me for the same meal. The restaurant stuck to their guns, insisted they were right and I never got $50 back.

If it's fraud? The CC company has your back. But if the vendor is a legit business and sticks to their guns (in my case they did it (I HOPE) not realizing they really had made a mistake)...my experience was the credit card company basically washed their hands of it.

I personally wouldn't do the charge back for some of the reasons others have posted....but if you do attempt it, please report on how that goes.

Thats very interesting and I appreciate you sharing your experience.

To clarify. You had 2 separate transactions for $50 on your credit card for a meal that you had at ABC restaurant. Did you sign a receipt? I imagine you did but regardless. That receipt should have had a specific transaction number on it. If they charged you a second separate transaction, where is the signed receipt for that? Did you sign two receipts? I'm curious how the CC company did not side with you if there clearly was a legit problem....

Btw I had something similar happen with the state of new jersey's business licensing system. I paid $150 for my license but was charged twice also. I used a credit card but I was not about to chargeback the state of new jersey and the process of getting a refund was too ridiculous so I just ate it and lost $150. Life lesson as someone else said. This is a $3000-$10,000 situation though so you better believe I'm not chalking that up to a life lesson.

 

[pr3dict]

I feel your contractors pain...

Lol yeah you both are trying to steal honest people's money by giving them subpar service and calling it "good enough". Then whining about it when getting called out.

 

[gmcgeo]

Lol yeah you both are trying to steal honest people's money by giving them subpar service and calling it "good enough". Then whining about it when getting called out.

I do not see him whining, Just you.

 

[pr3dict]

I do not see him whining, Just you.

I forgot you were there the day they screamed and whined about how they arent making money, I should have read my contract as they only promised that they would give their best effort not actually fixt he problem (Nice hidden clause to get out of being responsible), and then stomped their feet and drove off. I forgot all about that. Which is weird because how could I forget your pretty face?



Butttttttttttttt Im glad you didnt disagree with the statement of you stealing honest peoples money by giving them subpar service. Just the whining part. Very telling.

 

[gmcgeo]

I forgot you were there the day they screamed and whined about how they arent making money, I should have read my contract as they only promised that they would give their best effort not actually fixt he problem (Nice hidden clause to get out of being responsible), and then stomped their feet and drove off. I forgot all about that. Which is weird because how could I forget your pretty face?



Butttttttttttttt Im glad you didnt disagree with the statement of you stealing honest peoples money by giving them subpar service. Just the whining part. Very telling.

I thought there was no contract? or now there is? anyway your petty childish comments are getting annoying. did you come here to troll the forum? Time for Ryan to step in and shut this down

 

[nadogail]

You had one end goal in mind though, which was to have a functioning air line. Your method of making that happen was substituted for a different less expensive option but atleast it was done. In my case, my goal was never met. They did not do any of the other options available to fix the problem.

Your scenario would be more like mine if they put a patch in and it had a small leak but they told you, "hey it still kinda works. Pay us a little bit for it kinda working."

See the difference?

You were able to get your truck back on the road with a reasonable degree of safety and go back to earning an income. The repaired airline, although not what you desired, enabled you to minimize your nonproductive time.

When you are enjoying some “at home” time your truck can get the air line replaced without a delay for parts.

 

[pr3dict]

I thought there was no contract? or now there is? anyway your petty childish comments are getting annoying. did you come here to troll the forum? Time for Ryan to step in and shut this down

I know it's hard for you to follow this thread because all you've been doing is attacking me the entire time. So I'll cut you some slack for claiming that you didn't know there wasnt a contract originally even though you commented on the fact that I received it after they destroyed my property. See your comment below, you know, real proof instead of baseless accusations.

"Funny enough I just got an email with the contract from their admin team. They want me to sign it now hahahhahahahahahhahahhahahahahhahahahahahahaha." Now this comment... i dont think its funny.

anyway your petty childish comments are getting annoying. did you come here to troll the forum?

You came to my thread, to attack me. You have not actually given any meaningful contribution to this thread. If you have an issue with how I report the facts as they are then you are welcome to click on any other thread here. You're coming here to find trouble aka trolling. If you have a problem. Don't respond it's that simple. Personally, I can spar with you all day and deflect your trolling without having to cry to an admin. Apparently you cannot.

 

[Ryan]

Can't we all just get along? Or, at the very least, ignore those that irritate you? Geesh...