Asphalt Driveway... I'll be the test monkey

[The Money Pit]

Seems my wife "hired" a guy who's in the neighborhood paving some driveways. She was home and he stopped by to see if we wanted to have our driveway paved. She talked to him and agreed to have him do it on Friday. I was at work and sort of made a snap decision to let this guy do it. I'm off Friday and when she talked to him, he assured her we would be happy with the work and he's been doing this for 30 years. I've been burned by a few contractors so I'm a wee bit skeptical to say the least. The guy was talking like the other contractors I had delt with in the past. I.E. talking fast and telling us what we wanted to hear.

I'll take and post pictures of the job and you guys can critique the job and let me know where things went right/wrong.

 

[Northstar9126]

Man would I want references before I ever let him start anything.

 

[tigerbalm2424]

I assume you mean sealcoating?

I wouldnt let just any contractor come in and tear up and replace my asphalt driveway!

 

[The Money Pit]

I've got gravel now. Never had crush & run put down over the original drive way that's been there over 9 years. Dude says he's going to level it off (it's fairly flat now) then put the asphalt over it with no base. Says the existing driveway has a good enough base already.... I've got a bad feeling about this.

 

[Northstar9126]

A guy showing up at your door soliciting paving jobs is one of the biggest scams that gypsies use. Do a goggle search of "Gypsie Paving" you will see lots of horror stories. DON'T LET THEM DO IT!

 

[Stuart in MN]

A guy showing up at your door soliciting paving jobs is one of the biggest scams that gypsies use. Do a goggle search of "Gypsie Paving" you will see lots of horror stories. DON'T LET THEM DO IT!

Exactly. A reputable paver isn't going to be going door to door just because he's in the neighborhood. Is this guy licensed and insured? References?

 

[Kevin54]

I've been stung by one and one other guy was doing the same as the one you talked to. He was going around and drumming up some business. I was very well pleased with the results. One thing to ask about is how thick the asphalt will be and if they are going to scrape/level your drive first. Most asphalt is layed at 2-3" thick with 2" being the norm for a driveway. Also ask how long to wait before sealing it. A FBN company will tell you to seal it right away. A reputable company will tell you to wait 90 days or longer so the asphalt has time to cure completely out and harden. The guys that did mine told me to just wait until next Spring to do it or just right before winter. But before anything at all is unloaded (equipment wise) make sure that you tell him up front that if you are not satisfied, you are not paying. And do not give any money up front, and don't sign anything. Paving is also a fly-by-night business and many, many people have been stung. Two years ago, there was a company going around that had all brand new equipment. Dump trucks, paving machines, etc. EVERY customer they had was burnt. Finally had a class action suit against them, they left town and changed names on the trucks. So if you don't sign anything up front, then there is no contract that they can hold you to. And make sure that you have the bank on speed dial just in case that you have to stop payment for some reason. The fly-by-nighters can have a check cashed in less than 15 minutes.

 

[porschedude996TT]

What is the limit and what do Tags cost for Fly-By-Night Pavers?

 

[The Money Pit]

He's been in VA. for 4 years. Almost to the date. At least liscenced in VA. with the board of contractors. He's insured and told my wife to not seal it for at least a year. I know NOTHING about paving except for what I read in the hour researching it on the internet. Personally I'd rather get a few more bids then make a decision.

 

[logical]

You could be the guinea pig if there was even a slight chance of this turning out well.

At this point you are a hog volunteering for slaughter.

 

[The Money Pit]

I did a search on the states liscence board and it looks like all the people I looked up (3 or 4) that I found in the yellow pages and they are all crooked. I might as well let him do it. I'll be sure to post pics.

 

[Tscott]

My mother did this, in a similar situation. Guy showed up and said he was doing work down the road and had some extra left over and offed to do the job. We already had a driveway consisting of #57 stone (i.e. crushed concrete) and as far as I can tell, he just paved right over it. This has been almost 5 years now and it is holding remarkably well. Had I been there I may have told him to take his deal somewhere else, but it has really worked out pretty well. As far as I can tell he laid the black top down 4" to 5" thick most of the way. I will point out that they did not level it and when it rains there are a few puddles, but it just an 8' wide 100' long driveway and this is not really a problem. I think she got it done for $500 or so.

The areas where we did not have the stone down near the dirt road, have of course cracked and chunked off where vehicle tires constantly drive over, but this is only at the edges and do not really effect the drive at all.

I say you are probably taking a chance, but if you already have a good stable drive, how bad can it be? Give it a chance, take a gamble life is to short to be scared of everything.


Tom

 

[Wardster]

The asphalt, since it is a flexible pavement, will mimic whatever the stone beneath it does. What kind of asphalt will he be puting down and how thick will it be?

 

[boiler7904]

Personally I'd rather get a few more bids then make a decision.

Then why are you rushing into this? I'm assuming that you work hard for your money - why spend it without knowing exactly what you'll be getting? Talk to multiple contractors and people that have had the same type of work done recently. Talk to the local building department. Is he licensed and bonded in your town? What's his track record with the town? Is he getting the right permits (if your town requires them)? That isn't something that you can usually walk in on tuesday, get the permit while you wait, and then do the work on friday.

A quality contractor might leave a flyer and business card on your door if he's in the neighborhood but he isn't going to start trolling for more work just because he's there.

A quality contractor also isn't going to give you a deadline to get the work done by. He might give you a dead line that pricing will be honored until (asphalt is very volatile with the price of crude oil). Doing the actual work would fit into his work schedule.

Personally, I'd rather take the time to research contractors, the product, and pricing before agreeing to anything with anyone. I'd also be willing to spend more money to get a quality product, installation, and warranty from a reputable company.

Like anything else in construction, the final product is only going to be as good as the prep work. If the contractor isn't doing any prep work, he isn't doing you any favors. In fact, he's hurting you because when the pavement fails in a couple of years, it will have to be torn out at your expense.

Coming out of winter, there are bound to be soft spots in the gravel that need some work. The whole driveway also needs to be graded to avoid puddling and to make sure that you have positive drainage away from the house and garage. Is he compacting the base before he starts paving? He should be. Small jumping jacks and plate compactors don't count except right alongside a structure that a vibratory roller won't physically fit.

This whole subject has so many red flags flying right now, you'd be crazy to let him set foot on your property let alone do actual work. No offense but if you make a lot of rash decisions like this, I can see how you arrived at your screen name.

 

[e-tek]

Hmmm - who let's the wife hire contractors anyway - it doesn't look right from the outset! Man we are a cynical bunch!

 

[Bevis]

My mother did this, in a similar situation. Guy showed up and said he was doing work down the road and had some extra left over and offed to do the job.

Had a guy stop buy last week (as I was out by the road), he was on the next street over from mine doing a driveway. Told him I wasn't really ready since I was going to be widening my drive. He did my next door neighbors though, and it looks good too. I asked around about the guy, and was told he was the best around, and didn't believe in jerking people around.

 

[The Money Pit]

I can see how you arrived at your screen name.

Ouch! That was harsh.

Seriously though, the wife and I went by the house he paved earlier today and talked to the lady he did the work for and she was happy with the job. She also gave me a reference to some vinyl windows too. It didn't look 1/2 bad either. I'm off tomorrow and I'll be "supervising" to make sure it's done right to the best of my knowledge. My in-laws had their driveway paved and they didn't even use a machine to lay it. They also just graded it until it was level then plopped down the asphalt. It still looks good and only 1 minor crack. There are some wet spots in my driveway now that I'm going to make sure it gets filled and rolled with a roller. We'll see how things go.

 

[Kevin54]

I'm off tomorrow and I'll be "supervising" to make sure it's done right to the best of my knowledge.

You do KNOW that we will need pics of all of this that goes on today don't you? 50% of us is right and 50% is going to be wrong and we will need to have pics to verify which 50% it will be. Good luck!!

 

[Wardster]

Seriously though, the wife and I went by the house he paved earlier today and talked to the lady he did the work for and she was happy with the job.

This is like lipstick on a pig....

You won't find the real measure of this guy's work by looking at driveways he's done recently. You have to find the ones he did 5 - 10 years ago to see how well they held up.

I hate to see people throw money at something that stinks, but it's not my house.

-Wardster

 

[Vicious_Cycle]

WHERE ARE DA PICS?!?!?!?

 

[The Money Pit]

Ok, here are the pics I promised.PLEASE post feedback! I think that goes without saying though.

I took this before they showed up. My driveway was old crush & run. I would put weed killer down every spring to kill all the weeds.

 

[BoCRon]

So where are the pics of the asphalt?
Annette

 

[The Money Pit]

So where are the pics of the asphalt?
Annette

Well, funny thing about photobucket. I guess they only let you link a few pics then cut you off. I'm trying to find another server to host the darn things. I have already resized them so that's not the problem. I'll get the rest up soon.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Well, funny thing about photobucket. I guess they only let you link a few pics then cut you off. I'm trying to find another server to host the darn things. I have already resized them so that's not the problem. I'll get the rest up soon.

I must have 500 pics up

 

[Kevin54]

Sign up with ImageShack. We deperately need pics. LOL!!! At least if you can't get the pics....are you satisfied? You just caan't keep everyone in suspense like this

 

[kvom]

What was wrong with the driveway as it was? It's not as if there were big potholes.

 

[FireZapper]

Here's his bucket.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/mcastle06/

 

[e-tek]

Here's his bucket.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/mcastle06/

HELL, it looks MUCH better than what they use on the roads up here in SK, Canada! It's thick, they got the right equipemnt and it's black! Up here they use a "thin membrane" asphalt that peels off in one winter!! I say (except for the lack of an edge) you'll be happy for a long time - send 'em to my place next!

 

[bmwpower]

I will make a couple comments:

Overall, depth looks great. However, I'm worried about the edges - there does not seem to be adequate stone base on the edges. There needs to be a several inches of base beyond the edge of the blacktop. This will help the edges from sinking and therefore cracking in the future. Not to mention it will help the grass and roots from ripping up the edges.

The other thing I see is at the end of the driveway where the drainage pipe sits. I'm not sure of the proper way to complete an area like this, but I would think you would need to take even more care in this area. It looks like they just dumped a bunch of blacktop in that area since it looks really thick. I foresee this area sinking and or cracking falling into the ditch.

Probably minor things in the grand scheme of things, but I wanted to note them.

 

[wilbilt]

It would probably been better over 6" of compacted base, but it looks like a reasonably good job for what was probably a reasonable price.

If someone like that came around here and made an offer, I would be very tempted if I had the ready cash. My driveway is about the same size, and I have put 25 tons of base down over the years.

It tends to disappear after awhile, and I'm tired of dealing with the weeds.

 

[The Money Pit]

Thanks for posting the link to the photobucket site. The reason I wanted it paved is because it looks a lot better than weeds. I also won't be tracking fine bits of gravel/mud into the garage and having to sweep it out every few days. Also my daugher loves to play outside and we have a basket ball goal we haven't put up yet and her scooters etc.

The base of our driveway was sufficient because we had driven on it and it had been compacted over the past 10 years. Also if it wasn't compacted well, that dump truck would have sank somewhere along the base.

They did suggest running some gravel up to the sides to keep things from breaking off. They put weed killer down the sides and on the old surface. Overall I'm happy with the job. I don't expect it to never crack or have problems with it. My mother had hers paved about 10 years ago and it was a crappy job and it hasn't completly washed away. I appreciate the input guys!!

 

[edboyles]

Nice job! Would you mine sharing how much something like that cost? Thanks for sharing.....

 

[DynoDave]

Exactly. A reputable paver isn't going to be going door to door just because he's in the neighborhood. Is this guy licensed and insured? References?

I don't believe that at all. I've had very good roof work done, as well as a similar offer on a blacktop drive from a contractor in the neighborhood doing other jobs, which two of my other neighbors went in on. Their drives were done over ten years ago, and still look great.

If your a small business man, and you have crews and equipment moved to a neighborhood to do a job, and you see other homes in the area that could benefit from your service, you'd be a fool not to knock on some doors and try to drum up some extra business while there, IMO.

Anyway, it looks like a nice job. I too fight gravel driveway problems (low spots, weeds, bringing in new gravel on a semi-regular basis), and I'm sure those are all problems you won't miss with that new drive.

 

[carcruse]

I have some concerns about the "peanut" roller they used. With the thickness they put down, they should have used a heavier roller to get adequate compaction. Also, if they didn't get all the roots out from the grass/weeds they could come up thru the asphalt.

 

[The Money Pit]

Ed, I paid $4500 for the entire job. Not sure what oil prices are right now but I think it's safe to say that it's going to get worse before it gets better. I haven't measured it yet but at the widest point, less the flair off the apron, it's approx. 24' across and tapers to 20' at the entrance and it's about 117' long. It took them about 5 hours and only had the asphalt for materials and the price of fuel & delivery cost and about 5 workers. Mathmatically, I'm sure I got a pretty good deal square footage wise. One thing I have going for the house side is the builder put in a gravel driveway right up to the edge of the concrete walkway so there's a base under the soil which will be less prone to breaking off.

Dave, The guy actually took myself and my wife around & knocked on former customer doors and let us talk to them about the job he did and let us ask questions while he walked to his truck so we wouldn't feel uncomfortable asking. I wasn't all that impressed with the work he had done 4 years ago, but we talked with the woman who's driveway he had done the day before and it looked like he's gotten better. He also said he used a smaller paving machine back then and his 13' wide paver was newer equipment. Oh, and I will definatly not miss sweeping out the gravel dust that was tracked in from my vehicles.

I was concerned about the small roller too. It seemed to do the job. I guess time will tell. I plan on maintaining the driveway for a long time by sealing it when it needs it.

 

[IDASHO]

If your a small business man, and you have crews and equipment moved to a neighborhood to do a job, and you see other homes in the area that could benefit from your service, you'd be a fool not to knock on some doors and try to drum up some extra business while there, IMO.

Especially the way the market is right now.

Most small builders are STARVING for work.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

If your a small business man, and you have crews and equipment moved to a neighborhood to do a job, and you see other homes in the area that could benefit from your service, you'd be a fool not to knock on some doors and try to drum up some extra business while there, IMO.

Dittos on that. With fuel cost, one job in a neighborhood at that price isn't enough to pay to move the equipment. Now if you can get 2 or 3 more jobs close to the original contract then bonus.


BTW I'm a licensed contractor in VA. As the contractee in this deal. You have a lot of recourse if the job is done incorrectly. He is bonded through the VA contractors board and they will pay to have the job brought up to your satisfaction. If they agree that he didn't live up to his contract of course. Then the board will go after him for the money they spent fixing your property.

Glen
________
herbal store

 

[Kevin54]

The base of our driveway was sufficient because we had driven on it and it had been compacted over the past 10 years.

After driving on it a few days, you'll wonder why you didn't pave it 10 years ago. I know after we had ours paved it was great and I hope I never have to go back to a gravel drive. What I like most though is that in the winter it will melt off way before our concrete drive melts. It looks like they did a great job. Thicker than most jobs that I have seen. And that size of roller used is the norm. They use large ones for roads but for a drive that is about the size they all use. As far as the edges, they should have tamped them if the roller did not go over that far. Most use a hand tamper to set the asphalt. Then just take a little topsoil and fill in. You might get a weed or two that will push up through but it is no big deal. Just a little spray of weed killer again. It is surprising that a weed can push through something like that, but if you did not get them all killed off they might.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Sure beats gravel. If you plan on staying for a few years you might wish you had done more prep, but if the price was right, who cares? If you sell before it goes to hell, then it was a good investment.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

But before anything at all is unloaded (equipment wise) make sure that you tell him up front that if you are not satisfied, you are not paying. ... and don't sign anything.... So if you don't sign anything up front, then there is no contract that they can hold you to.

I don't think this is correct. Although there are a few differences from state to state, in general there is no legal requirement that a contract must be written down (exceptions include transfer of real estate, in some cases sale of goods for a price over $500, and a few others. Note that paving is probably not a sale of goods but rather the purchase of a service.)

All that is needed for a contract to exist is a meeting of the minds. A "verbal contract" is usually as enforceable as a written contract. Hypothetically if it were to go to litigation, a judge might decide if the two of you had a meeting of the minds.

An a$$hole contractor could put a lien on your property if you don't pay. You would then hypothetically need to go to court to get the lien removed.

good luck