Asphalt or concrete

[starquestMM]

If your turning the wheels of your vehicle a lot in this area, go with concrete. In the hot summer, asphalt can tend to be soft and move under turning vehicle tires. Otherwise, asphalt is fine, but needs to be maintained. If you don't plan to maintain it, don't bother.

Good point. Also if you plan to park on it, asphalt will slowly deform.

I'd use asphalt only if I had a long driveway. Concrete on short driveways and in the parking area.

 

[MG44]

4 inches of concrete is insufficient for a surface which will see vehicular traffic. That's a sidewalk detail. 6 inches minimum, 8 inches is more better.

I have to disagree Tommy. We poured 4 inches at my other shop 6 years ago, the concrete has held up great, no cracks. The lot at the minimum has a dozen cars parked in it everyday, sometimes up to 35+ vehicles (like now during tax season). 6" is better but not necessary, 8" is overkill and I wouldn't spend the extra money to pour it.

The asphalt contractor was just trying to hit a home run on his estimate. I personally like the looks of concrete, but only considered asphalt because I assumed it would be more cost effective for what I need. The lot was quoted with 2.5" of base and 1.5" of top coat at that price. If somebody can get me an estimate at 9k I will let them start as soon as the plants start producing asphalt. At this point it is looking like concrete. This shop is just a side project helping out my cousin, I have no attachment to it. I just want the parking lot nice so if I ever need to sell it, it will move quick. But enough on that, I don't want to hijack the thread.

 

[Kevin54]

I have to disagree Tommy. We poured 4 inches at my other shop 6 years ago, the concrete has held up great, no cracks. The lot at the minimum has a dozen cars parked in it everyday, sometimes up to 35+ vehicles (like now during tax season). 6" is better but not necessary, 8" is overkill and I wouldn't spend the extra money to pour it.

The asphalt contractor was just trying to hit a home run on his estimate. I personally like the looks of concrete, but only considered asphalt because I assumed it would be more cost effective for what I need. The lot was quoted with 2.5" of base and 1.5" of top coat at that price. If somebody can get me an estimate at 9k I will let them start as soon as the plants start producing asphalt. At this point it is looking like concrete. This shop is just a side project helping out my cousin, I have no attachment to it. I just want the parking lot nice so if I ever need to sell it, it will move quick. But enough on that, I don't want to hijack the thread.

That is not thick enough. If there is nothing down for a lot to begin with, you are going to need a thick base of stone. Normally they will bring in larger stone for a base, compact it, bring in a few tons of 57's, compact that, then at the minimum, 2" or asphalt. For a parking lot, I would want 3" minimum asphalt with at least a foot of combined base material compacted.

 

[msgross]

I have a 3500 sq ft asphalt driveway that leads up to my garage. I reseal every three years for about $300 or so. I also have to put down plywood if I want to use jack stands.

I vote concrete...

 

[where2]

My house was built in 1961 and still has the original concrete driveway.

 

[Gunnert]

I faced this delimma last week, redo asphald driveway or go with concrete. Old asphalt was in terrible shape, previous pavers must have used rented equipment. Price for concrete is more than double the price for asphalt ($2 sqft asphalt/ $4.50 sqft concrete). I'm comfortable saying for most the preferred material is concrete. Just about everyone agrees on that (except for the one guy that had his concrete removed and replaced with asphalt because snow melter faster on asphalt...).

As almost always with the working class...it's a manner of economics...

 

[long003]

Generally speaking Concrete works best when you will have vehicles sitting on it regularly. When poured to the correct thickness concrete is made to support dead loads. Asphalt is flexible and is made to support moving loads. Also no matter what thickness asphalt you have, the subgrade material under it is key. You have to make sure that subgrade stays dry. Asphalt is only as good as the subgrade under it. You definitely want a seal coat that is at least 1" to 1 1/2" thick. Also, the size of the agg in the seal coat makes a difference. 1/2 stone makes a smooth surface and is the most common for low traffic applications. 3/4 is stronger, but has a little rougher surface. also you should think about how hot asphalt will be in the summer. Might not be a big deal for you, but here in the south that is something that we have to consider. When I do my driveway I will likely pour a pad for the driveway at the house and then asphalt the rest. Just somethings to think about for you.

 

[Old Moparz]

Whatever it is you choose to go with, one thing that is more important then the thickness of either concrete or asphalt, is the ground prep, drainage & stone subbase material you put under it. I am an estimator for a site contractor that also specializes in highway construction & asphalt paving. I've been with this company since 1996 & every time I see someone try to save money on a project we try to convince them not to skimp on the subbase. My boss would rather sell less asphalt & do the prep correctly than to install it & know it will blow apart prematurely. I've seen him walk away from the chance at the job when the client wants to cut corners on the prep.

Wet conditions, too little subbase material & poor compaction prior to the pavement installation will ruin the pavement in most cases. If you have wet conditions, try to get the water away from the driveway first. A sloped swale in the grass directing water away or a perforated pipe below the surface with a washed stone envelope & filter fabric around it will also work. Not doing it would be like fixing the water stain on your ceiling by replacing the sheet rock & painting it without finding the leak on the roof & fixing that first. In ideal conditions I think a 6" layer of well compacted, crushed stone, will give you a good base under the pavement.

 

[Kevin54]

I faced this delimma last week, redo asphald driveway or go with concrete. Old asphalt was in terrible shape, previous pavers must have used rented equipment. Price for concrete is more than double the price for asphalt ($2 sqft asphalt/ $4.50 sqft concrete). I'm comfortable saying for most the preferred material is concrete. Just about everyone agrees on that (except for the one guy that had his concrete removed and replaced with asphalt because snow melter faster on asphalt...).

As almost always with the working class...it's a manner of economics...

Yep....I'm that guy

If I lived in a warmer climate, I would most definitely go with concrete. But my vehicles don't leak either With asphalt at least you can cover it.

Don't take it wrong, I'm not trying to defend myself or sway one persom to go with asphalt over concrete, but in my situation, we had a concrete turn-a-round driveway directly across from a "T" road. Everyone thought it was just convenient to use it at their own convenience. Also, in the winter when we had periods of warming during the day and freezing at night, the way our house faces, the sun would hit the drive just enough to thaw it a little, then by noon, it would start freezing again. A few winters, we had to go as far as hooking the hose up and slowly running water underneath the ice so we could break it up. We'd have a couple of inches of ice. I have one good arm to chip away at it, and I don't want my wife out there doing something I should be doing.

So in my case, asphalt had it's benefits over concrete. When we had the turn-a-round drive, we just had a sidewalk put in from the front porch out. Three days later, some ****** decided to use the drive, drove through the yard, flowerbed, and ran over the sidewalk breaking it in half. I do not miss a turn-a-round whether it be concrete or asphalt.

I've tore up my asphalt drive though. One was from leaving my car trailer setting for a week. It was up in the upper 90's. I went to move it and the four tires left indentations along with the tongue jack. Another time, I had to look under my GMC Jimmy and took the floor jack out to raise it up. It was only on the jack for maybe 10 minutes but I have 4 wheel marks from it. When the time comes that I have to redo the driveway, I'll either make a concrete pad out farther or make a concrete pad beside the garage.

As far as longevity, if the OP is looking for something to last for years and years, by all means, go with concrete AS LONG as it's done correctly. I would never recommend the wire mesh to anyone for concrete. I would only go with rebar for the fact that IF or WHEN you get a crack, the rebar will let it crack but keep the two pieces from shifting up and down from one another. Also, the fiber reinforced concrete WILL NOT prevent it from ever cracking.

It take someone that really knows their business though work with concrete to keep cracks at a minimum, knows where to put control joints, and knows what to do to make it last for years to come. Most concrete today is not like concrete was 50 years ago or more. Back in those days, when concrete was poured, you knew it was going to last. In a small town not to far from where I lived, they had a concrete bridge that train tracks were on over the road. The tracks were abandoned and they were going to tear out both sides of the bridge and regrade the ground. What was going to be about a one week job turned into a full summer. Jackhammers would only chip away a little at a time. A wrecking ball would not hurt it except for a few scars. They ended up bringing in a big track-hoe and digging out behind it, hooked up some hose to the fire hydrant and undermined it to get it to drop into the hole. Now that was some good concrete. You just don't see that today.

 

[joes169]

That is not thick enough. If there is nothing down for a lot to begin with, you are going to need a thick base of stone. Normally they will bring in larger stone for a base, compact it, bring in a few tons of 57's, compact that, then at the minimum, 2" or asphalt. For a parking lot, I would want 3" minimum asphalt with at least a foot of combined base material compacted.

I think you mis-understood what he was saying:

2.5 inches of base/binder of asphalt followed by a second 1.5" layer of finished (smaller stone and completely different composition) asphalt, equaling 4" asphalt total...........

Typically, the thickest asphalt you're going to see put down is 2.5" per pass, any thicker and it is extremely hard to get completely compacted......

Whatever it is you choose to go with, one thing that is more important then the thickness of either concrete or asphalt, is the ground prep, drainage & stone subbase material you put under it. I am an estimator for a site contractor that also specializes in highway construction & asphalt paving. I've been with this company since 1996 & every time I see someone try to save money on a project we try to convince them not to skimp on the subbase. My boss would rather sell less asphalt & do the prep correctly than to install it & know it will blow apart prematurely. I've seen him walk away from the chance at the job when the client wants to cut corners on the prep.

Wet conditions, too little subbase material & poor compaction prior to the pavement installation will ruin the pavement in most cases. If you have wet conditions, try to get the water away from the driveway first. A sloped swale in the grass directing water away or a perforated pipe below the surface with a washed stone envelope & filter fabric around it will also work. Not doing it would be like fixing the water stain on your ceiling by replacing the sheet rock & painting it without finding the leak on the roof & fixing that first. In ideal conditions I think a 6" layer of well compacted, crushed stone, will give you a good base under the pavement.

Excellent post...........

Keeping the subgrade drained is the most important, and probably most overlooked, element to a paved system. In the cold climate that both of us are in, more damage is done to pavement in the few weeks that the frost is coming out than the other 50 weeks of the year combined.......

 

[Kevin54]

I think you mis-understood what he was saying:

2.5 inches of base/binder of asphalt followed by a second 1.5" layer of finished (smaller stone and completely different composition) asphalt, equaling 4" asphalt total...........

Typically, the thickest asphalt you're going to see put down is 2.5" per pass, any thicker and it is extremely hard to get completely compacted......




Excellent post...........

Keeping the subgrade drained is the most important, and probably most overlooked, element to a paved system. In the cold climate that both of us are in, more damage is done to pavement in the few weeks that the frost is coming out than the other 50 weeks of the year combined.......

Gotcha I was thinking 1 1/2" of asphalt and that was it.

 

[cityhick]

Depends a bit on how stable the ground is. Tree roots and soil expansion/contraction tend to heave concrete. I went with a concrete apron directly in front of the garage and an asphalt driveway.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.... I am looking into the same thing and would prefer to do concrete and can put the concrete down myself with help from the guys at work...city workers...and could do the concrete cheaper than asphalt since the labor is free. Our neighborhood has a high water table and all the concrete drives on my street are cracked and heaved but the asphalt is more forgiving to movement and they all look good so Im going with asphalt and paying someone else to do it.

 

[Kevin54]

This is why I like asphalt. The sidewalks were cleaned first so we could let the dog out, and the asphalt drives were done afterwards. The pics were taken at 9:45 this morning when we just got done cleaning them. We had 8" of snow last night that was wet. The wife went back out a little while ago to try and get some more off of the sidewalks.

Given our age and medical issues, although I'd prefer concrete for strength, I'ma likin' the melted stuff. The asphalt drive is almost dry now.

 

[gatchel]

I just recently poured about 60 yards of concrete for my driveway.

The best thing I can recommend if you do choose concrete is to protect your investment with a sealer. I used Aquapel Plus which seals the surface. When it rains of gets wet the water beads up and runs off of most of the driveway like it was waxed. Lessened water / salt penetration will prolong the life and look of your driveway.

 

[jvitez]

Very few asphalt driveways here, not sure why. Our clay soil and freeze/thaw cycles? More major streets are paved with concrete, then when they start to deteriorate they cover them with asphalt to prolong the life.

Poorly done concrete will spall like crazy in our climate. In Indiana the weather is much more moderate, so I'm thinking either will work for you. I'd make my decision more on how I would use it most: parking cars, jackstands, engine degreasing on it, that sort of thing.

 

[budl]

This is an interesting thread, exactly what I was looking for. Getting ready to pour a slab for a 24 x 34 detached garage and am debating myself about the asphalt/concrete driveway. Been quoted $5500 for 2200 sq, ft. of blacktop vs $9900 for concrete for the driveway. The driveway to the house (about 16 x 70) is asphalt laid when the house was built in '68 and looks like it has had 1 repave. Many cracks but completely seviceable. I trust my contractor and he said he would go asphalt. We are in S. TX so heat is more of a concern than cold. Driveway will be used mainly to get my old cars from the garage to the street. I haven't decided yet but I'm thinkin I might rather spend the extra $4400 on toys to play with on the slab inside the garage. By the way, the quote for the engineered garage slab is about $9800 finished with bathroom plumbing (11.37/sq. ft).

Bud

 

[JimVonBaden]

This is an interesting thread, exactly what I was looking for. Getting ready to pour a slab for a 24 x 34 detached garage and am debating myself about the asphalt/concrete driveway. Been quoted $5500 for 2200 sq, ft. of blacktop vs $9900 for concrete for the driveway. The driveway to the house (about 16 x 70) is asphalt laid when the house was built in '68 and looks like it has had 1 repave. Many cracks but completely seviceable. I trust my contractor and he said he would go asphalt. We are in S. TX so heat is more of a concern than cold. Driveway will be used mainly to get my old cars from the garage to the street. I haven't decided yet but I'm thinkin I might rather spend the extra $4400 on toys to play with on the slab inside the garage. By the way, the quote for the engineered garage slab is about $9800 finished with bathroom plumbing (11.37/sq. ft).

Bud

With the heat you will get there I would put a parking slab in front of the driveway. Asphalt doesn't take long term parking or use of jacks and jack stands very well.

Jim

 

[brawls43]

oh yea, sorry, I should add, I have never re sealed the thing, had bobcats scrape it removing snow, dragged trailers around on it, done the 362 point U turn in the driveway more times then I care to count, am finally getting some depressions in the old section ( 25 years old ) but the 5 year old parts still look good. the old stuff still almost looks like concrete too, its just got a weird asphalt texture to it.. will try to snap some pics soon if I remember, and my cam gets back from warranty work.

Ever get a chance to grab some pics Delta? I'm curious how your set up looks.