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Athol 323 1/2 Vise Jaws

RMRCattleCo.

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I have an old 323 1/2 that was my grandpas,he bought it new in 1903 that has beenbolted to an old mesquite stump since before i can remember. I use the hell out of it and finally the jaws are slick. They appear to be poured in place separate from the main forging. Its pipe jaw inserts are in pretty good shape but its main jaw wear has forced me to use a vise i made from ibeam and a jack screw when i was a teenager. Does anyone have any experience making new jaws plates or machining some? Got a bridgeport mill but i figured i would get some input. Maybe mill some tool steel knurled plate and then drill and tap some bolt holes in the existing jaw plates for installation.
 
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Packard V8

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If my Athol has removeable jaws, I can't see them. It has smooth jaws which were never crosshatched or kurled and they appear to be part of the castings.

jack vines
 
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RMRCattleCo.

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I dont think mine are removable, just of a different type of steel, installed as a separate piece. There is a fine seam that is barely noticable.
 

bigcaddy

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I dont think mine are removable, just of a different type of steel, installed as a separate piece. There is a fine seam that is barely noticable.

Your vise, along with most Athol vises, have "hot forged" jaw inserts that were never meant to be replaced. Removing them with a mill is best way to replace them but you might want to check out prices for replacement jaw inserts first. They can be quite expensive
 

autopts

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I had this old Reed 403 1/2 . It was in excellent condition but the jaws were worn smooth. I had a machinist mill 3/16" off each jaw left a 3/16" shelf support and tap 3/8" holes into the steel. I gave him the jaws and he installed Wilton jaws from their 350. It worked great. They matched up perfect and now are replaceable.

Reed4035-2-1.jpg


Reed4035-1-1.jpg


Reed403R15.jpg


Let me add that I sold it on Ebay and didn't make ****. $20 new handle, $35 vise, $35 jaws, $50 labor. Sometimes it just works out that way.
 
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Joe B.

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Has anyone ever considered 'cutting' new teeth into the existing jaws? I don't know how you would go about this but it seems like something that would buy you some time.
 

Packard V8

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Has anyone ever considered 'cutting' new teeth into the existing jaws? QUOTE]

Teeth/crosshatch/knurling vise jaws is not a universal requirement. Many vises have smooth jaws so as not to mar the work being held.

Having said that, since the precision of the pattern isn't a priority, worn serrated jaws can be re-scored with a triangular file. I did a set that way and the teeth were sharper than new.

jack vines
 
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RMRCattleCo.

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Yes that is what i did this morning in some down time. Used an extremely sharp chisel and cut grooves in it. Then lightly sanded don the ridges. Worked fine for my usage
 

autopts

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Yes that is what i did this morning in some down time. Used an extremely sharp chisel and cut grooves in it. Then lightly sanded don the ridges. Worked fine for my usage

Please!! I've got to see it. You might be onto something earth shattering in this vise world we live in. Show and tell!
 

KMScott

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I have an old 323 1/2 that was my grandpas,he bought it new in 1903 that has beenbolted to an old mesquite stump since before i can remember. I use the hell out of it and finally the jaws are slick. They appear to be poured in place separate from the main forging. Its pipe jaw inserts are in pretty good shape but its main jaw wear has forced me to use a vise i made from ibeam and a jack screw when i was a teenager. Does anyone have any experience making new jaws plates or machining some? Got a bridgeport mill but i figured i would get some input. Maybe mill some tool steel knurled plate and then drill and tap some bolt holes in the existing jaw plates for installation.

I can help you, I build jaws for Wilton vises out of A-2 tool steel. You can use your Bridgeport but you will need to build a fixture plate to hold the jaw inserts while you cut the serrations. I have found that the coarse serrations are cut with a pitch of .100 and around .030-.040 deep depending on your sharpness of the 90 degree cutter (see my photo). The Wilton jaws are set at 30 degrees on the fixture plate (second photo). One thing nice with Wilton jaws are they are all nominal dimensions meaning they are in fraction numbers. I just made a set for a Starrett 926 (Athol) and these dimensions were also in fractions by a 1/16th but the serrations were not at 30 degrees, they were parallel, you can see them in the last picture. After they are finished I would suggest heat treating the tool steel to 54 Rockwell +or- 2 points. If you do this the jaw serrations will last if not abused like gripping something hard and really snugging the grip. Another steel type is S-7 which is a air quenched tool steel like A-2 (I use A-2 because it is cheaper)or you can get by with 4140 and have it oiled quenched up to 52 Rockwell. Look at my pics and you can see what I wrote about and the last picture is what I just finished for heat treat last week.

As for cutting teeth in existing jaws, my issue would be the hardness of the jaw insert and if the jaw plane is flat. If it is hard then a carbide cutter would be the only choice and they are real expensive, and if the face is wore beyond the serrations at one end that means it is not flat. This makes it hard to serrate the jaws. I would have to machine the face before cutting serrations and this makes some jaws thinner.

I have met some gun smiths that are very good at using a chisel to cut steel like a checkerboard pattern on guns, they could re shape serrations but it is very time consuming. Just my two cents.

Kevin

wiltonviseparts.net
 

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justanengineer

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Has anyone ever considered 'cutting' new teeth into the existing jaws? I don't know how you would go about this but it seems like something that would buy you some time.

I did it several times before I moved out here using a friend's 24" metal shaper. It could be done just as easily on a mill with a cheap flycutter, but I like using the shaper more and its also quicker for doing flat knurls like this.
 

KMScott

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I did it several times before I moved out here using a friend's 24" metal shaper. It could be done just as easily on a mill with a cheap flycutter, but I like using the shaper more and its also quicker for doing flat knurls like this.

Yes you are right, in fact this is the correct tool for cutting serrations, only problem is the vise has to be pivoted for the cross hatch when doing the second cut. Not a big deal though since I have to do the same. I wish I can find one here in Denver, I would buy it. The last one I ran was in 1973 before the newer horizontal mills replaced these workhorses.
 

Packard V8

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FWIW, I've got a little Atlas shaper which would be perfect for that operation.

However, a friend just spent nearly $100 on new jaws for his Wilton and for most things he holds in the vise, he uses copper or plastic inserts to keep from marking the workpieces. What is wrong with this picture?

Comes down to a man needs at least two good vises; one with smooth and one with serrated.

jack vines
 

gapfast

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Thanks jack. Mine is pitted pretty bad because of rust. I didn't want to cut it off till I had a good fix.
 

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autopts

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autopts will have to confirm where he spent the $20 but it looks like simple fabrication: a length of rod threaded on each end with a ball knob screwed on. Reid Supply sells knobs.

http://www.reidsupply.com/products/knobs-handles-hand-wheels/knobs/ball-knobs/?fl=4294930887

jack vines

Jack! That is exactly where I got them. The trick is the ball has to be made intro a knob. That handle was a small dia. on that Reed 403 1/2. and I cheated and got by with it. To open that hole in the ball is a problem for most of us that don't have the equipment to do it. For a machinist with a lathe, that ball I believe would have to be held in place with a collet so that the hole could be drilled and tapped to the OD of the handle rod. Once the handle ends are threaded its good to go. I sent 3 different diameter handles to KMScott. When I get them back, the big one is going onto a No 26 Hollands. I'll throw the photo up on this thread and also the vises of GJ thread.
 

autopts

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Thanks jack. Mine is pitted pretty bad because of rust. I didn't want to cut it off till I had a good fix.

AtholHandle_zps4f080513.jpg



is that the handle you want to replace? Most guys would die for a antique OE vise handle in that nice of condition.
 

gapfast

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Yes that is the handle. Hard to see in picture but the pitting is pretty bad. I have some flap discs coming this week. Gonna see how it looks cleaned up.
 

gapfast

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Jack! That is exactly where I got them. The trick is the ball has to be made intro a knob. That handle was a small dia. on that Reed 403 1/2. and I cheated and got by with it. To open that hole in the ball is a problem for most of us that don't have the equipment to do it. For a machinist with a lathe, that ball I believe would have to be held in place with a collet so that the hole could be drilled and tapped to the OD of the handle rod. Once the handle ends are threaded its good to go. I sent 3 different diameter handles to KMScott. When I get them back, the big one is going onto a No 26 Hollands. I'll throw the photo up on this thread and also the vises of GJ thread.

Good info. Thank you
 
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