Atlas TH42 metal lathe

[tiggi]

I am looking to get my first metal lathe so I need some professional opinion. I am working on a deal on CL for Atlas TH42 http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4753788143.html
Can someone tell me anything about it more. How good is it. Is it good choice for a newbie. Is the asking price ok. Anything i should ask the seller.

Please and thank you!

 

[MotoDave]

I always ask, what is your past machining experience and what do you plan to use it for?

They are OK lathes for small work and simple to learn on, you won't be making heavy cuts in steel with one though. I recently sold mine and picked up a 13" swing LeBlond Regal, which is much more suited to what I want to make with it. Its a pretty short bed and the spindle through hole is small on these, so you'll be limited trying to turn anything long in it.

No quick change gearbox so you'll be swapping change gears to change feed speeds and set up for threading. Make sure the change gears are complete, they're not that easy to find anymore. The quick change gearboxes go for $400+ on ebay if you can find one.

Price would be a bit high around here, I paid $650 for an Atlas/Craftsman with a longer bed in what I'd consider better condition, nut SoCal has a decent supply of used industrial equipment.

 

[tiggi]

I have zero past experience but this something i would like to learn. I guess my goal is to be making other tools around the garage. Should i keep looking and any suggestions what should i get thats in the price range of this one?

Thanks

 

[Ign]

Those have a cult following kinda like how people collect BeanieBabies.

Here's the thing: for a true beginner it ain't a bad start, but you'll outgrow it JUST as quickly as you took the training wheels off your bike. No kidding. The cult will be very angry with me, and if you're strictly going to build model engines and other hobby scaled-down things it could serve you for years. But to make "real" things that have practical applications in day-to-day repair, automotive, shop & garage stuff you'll quickly find its limitations.

With that lathe and an EasyBake Oven you can almost make a cupcake

My advice: look for a 13x40 minimum, bench top is ok for a beginner. Maybe a 12x36 if the price is killer. I'd take an import 13x40 over that Atlas. Both are going to be sloppy and flexy but at least the 13x40 can fit real world work.

 

[schor]

I have a th54 and for my purposes it works just fine. Check out some of my youtube videos, I have a few on there of the lathe doing it thing.

$750 around here for that lathe and the accessories is a good deal.

I started out with mine about 2 years ago, have done quite a few things on it and really cannot see myself needing a larger lathe since I am only a hobby machinist and usually make smaller parts for machines I am restoring or for friends that need a part I can make.

 

[tiggi]

Here are some of the other options I have:
South Bend 11x40 Metal Lathe - http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4732824040.html
CRAFTSMAN / ATLAS METAL LATHE - http://waterloo.craigslist.org/tls/4735247375.html
grizzly metal lathe - http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/4697542024.html
Small metal lathe 7" x 20" - http://lincoln.craigslist.org/tls/4750360501.html

any of these good?
thanks

 

[Kevin54]

You have close to $750 in just accessories alone. That is a new SHARS three jaw chuck and you are probably looking at $400-$600 just for it.

BUT....you want to check as to how much slop is in the lathe. A good machininst can make precision parts on a ************* machine, but if you are new, or want to be new to machining, don't expect miracles if the lathe is a POS. Push, pull, and twist, on the saddle and compound of the lathe. If it has excessive movement, it may very well be worn out. Some slop can be adjusted out of a lathe, but the bad thing is that a lathe normally has a small working area in it's life, and that area is close to the headstock, in the left and right movement, and close to a 6" area in the in and out movement. Years of working only in that area, combined with no care to a lathe can sort of render them useless unless you want to invest more into them than what they are worth. The gibs can be adjusted for the wear area, but when you need to venture out of the wear area, then things are so tight that it starts to throw all of your dimensions off.

It's hard to explain to a novice what all can be wrong just in the wear portion area of a lathe, and that is a three part area. You have wear on the lathe bed, you have wear on the saddle that rides on the bed, then you have the compound that rides back and forth that sits on the saddle. So if you have .005-.010 wear in each area, that gives you around .015-.030 amount of slop. To a machinist, .005 is about like 1/8"-3/16" of screwed up cut to a finish carpenter. .030 would be like a carpenter cutting something a 1/2" too short.

If you know a machinist, and more specifically a lathe person......take them along with you to look at it. You would be getting some good components, but those are of no use if the lathe is shot.

 

[sac02]

There isn't anything on CL around here for lathes, I've been searching for years for a decent benchtop or small floorstanding metal lathe. This may be my regional bias speaking, but that lathe, condition, and especially the included tooling would be a good deal for me, even more if you can talk him down from asking price.

A lot of people seem to feel that anything smaller than a "large" (by my definition) lathe is pointless (see above), but for the random projects I would be doing, that size would be fine. Taking deep cuts isn't a big deal if you're just tinkering in your garage and not running production parts. But as the above poster said, it depends on your needs.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

You have close to $750 in just accessories alone. That is a new SHARS three jaw chuck and you are probably looking at $400-$600 just for it.

BUT....you want to check as to how much slop is in the lathe. A good machininst can make precision parts on a ************* machine, but if you are new, or want to be new to machining, don't expect miracles if the lathe is a POS. Push, pull, and twist, on the saddle and compound of the lathe. If it has excessive movement, it may very well be worn out. Some slop can be adjusted out of a lathe, but the bad thing is that a lathe normally has a small working area in it's life, and that area is close to the headstock, in the left and right movement, and close to a 6" area in the in and out movement. Years of working only in that area, combined with no care to a lathe can sort of render them useless unless you want to invest more into them than what they are worth. The gibs can be adjusted for the wear area, but when you need to venture out of the wear area, then things are so tight that it starts to throw all of your dimensions off.

It's hard to explain to a novice what all can be wrong just in the wear portion area of a lathe, and that is a three part area. You have wear on the lathe bed, you have wear on the saddle that rides on the bed, then you have the compound that rides back and forth that sits on the saddle. So if you have .005-.010 wear in each area, that gives you around .015-.030 amount of slop. To a machinist, .005 is about like 1/8"-3/16" of screwed up cut to a finish carpenter. .030 would be like a carpenter cutting something a 1/2" too short.

If you know a machinist, and more specifically a lathe person......take them along with you to look at it. You would be getting some good components, but those are of no use if the lathe is shot.

Good points K... I was talking to a machinist years ago about a lathe.. He told me for about $3500, I could buy a decent import lathe... He said that would be the only way to go, unless like K stated, bring along a machinist who wouldn't mind traveling around for a while trying to find a reasonably priced diamond in the rough... A used lathe is not the item for a first time buyer, acting alone...

 

[Kevin54]

Tiggi......One other thing to consider, and I have been doing this sort of work for close to 35 years......a lathe makes round parts. If you want to make tools for around the garage, they are going to be round parts. And yes, some will argue that a lathe can do much more, but in doing so, you either have to find a mill attachment for it, and then figure on another $600 for one that fits that lathe. In the end, a lathe makes round parts.

If you want to make things for around the garage, look for a mill. You can make round parts on a mill, it replaces a drill press, and is a way more versatile machine than a lathe. When I was in the Toolroom, a lathe may sit for a week or so at a time, but the mills were ran on a daily basis. You can get a Bridgeport clone, like an Alliant, or even a BP for $750-$2000 for a good one. And for someone that wants to learn machining, a mill would suit you way more than a lathe.

 

[tiggi]

Kevin,

I was a going to get a mill also down the road. I did look at the both on CL but just didn't find anything affordable as mills go. Maybe you're right, I should put the lathe on hold and look for a mill first. Thank you for your suggestions.

Tiggi......One other thing to consider, and I have been doing this sort of work for close to 35 years......a lathe makes round parts. If you want to make tools for around the garage, they are going to be round parts. And yes, some will argue that a lathe can do much more, but in doing so, you either have to find a mill attachment for it, and then figure on another $600 for one that fits that lathe. In the end, a lathe makes round parts.

If you want to make things for around the garage, look for a mill. You can make round parts on a mill, it replaces a drill press, and is a way more versatile machine than a lathe. When I was in the Toolroom, a lathe may sit for a week or so at a time, but the mills were ran on a daily basis. You can get a Bridgeport clone, like an Alliant, or even a BP for $750-$2000 for a good one. And for someone that wants to learn machining, a mill would suit you way more than a lathe.

 

[TAMPAGT07]

Kevin,

I was a going to get a mill also down the road. I did look at the both on CL but just didn't find anything affordable as mills go. Maybe you're right, I should put the lathe on hold and look for a mill first. Thank you for your suggestions.

You can't go wrong taking advice from Kevin, when it comes to machining...

 

[sac02]

You can't go wrong taking advice from Kevin, when it comes to machining...

"You learn something new every day"

I learned about the most common issue I could expect when buying a used lathe - and I thought that was pretty cool!

 

[schor]

You can square up a block on the lathe in a 4jaw, I've done it when making the 3rd pulley holder for my drill press. But you are correct that a mill is more versatile for non round objects.

For me, I find my lathe gets more of a workout than my mill but maybe it's because of the things I need/want to make.

Tiggi......One other thing to consider, and I have been doing this sort of work for close to 35 years......a lathe makes round parts. If you want to make tools for around the garage, they are going to be round parts. And yes, some will argue that a lathe can do much more, but in doing so, you either have to find a mill attachment for it, and then figure on another $600 for one that fits that lathe. In the end, a lathe makes round parts.

If you want to make things for around the garage, look for a mill. You can make round parts on a mill, it replaces a drill press, and is a way more versatile machine than a lathe. When I was in the Toolroom, a lathe may sit for a week or so at a time, but the mills were ran on a daily basis. You can get a Bridgeport clone, like an Alliant, or even a BP for $750-$2000 for a good one. And for someone that wants to learn machining, a mill would suit you way more than a lathe.

 

[larry_g]

I don't disagree with Kevin a bit on the usefulness of a mill, but I do take a different view. Kevin, when you first started learning metal work did you start on a lathe? Good odds if not a drill press. A lathe is a good learning tool. You have to learn how metal reacts to a cutting tool, and how changing the geometry of a cutting tool can affect the job at hand. This is easy to learn with a bit, grinder, and a bit of steel in a lathe. So look at this machine as a learning tool and the usefulness of it changes.

As for the lathe at hand Kevin explained the value of the pile you have shown. You can get this lathe, use it and learn a lot, then send it down the road keeping the 'good' pieces for your next lathe and likely come out money ahead. Or you may discover it does suit your needs and get many years of service from it. You won't know till you jump in and start making chips.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[paulsomlo]

Look for a lathe with a quick change gear box, you won't regret it. A 9" South Bend is a good starter lathe, abundant and easy to get parts for. A 10" is far better, but not a model 10k, as the through hole in the spindle is not much larger than the 9" - look for a model 10L, aka the "Heavy 10". Much more mass and usually a 1 3/8" through hole in the spindle.

The 7x10 is a toy and so is the grizzy lathe you linked to. The South Bend is a step in the right direction, but still, a change gear lathe and very old, which means parts not so available.

 

[schor]

A quickchange gearbox is a nice thing. but how often is a learner going to thread much more than what they can do with a die set. I've yet to thread anything over 5/8" and I have dies for that. I did buy a whole qc10 for $250 just for the qcgb and I have sold parts off that machine for more than I payed. So there are ways around it.

Which reminds me that I need to get more shop time to finally refurbish the qcgb and get it onto my lathe. Probably won't happen till I need to actually use it.

Really for just learning that $750 lathe is a great buy IMO. Get it, build up your tooling inventory and then sell it for probably the same amount when/if your ready to upgrade.

Just buy it and start making chips, that's what it's all about in the end.

There are also lots of machining forums around where you can get lots of help and more specific to machining that GJ is. Check some of them out.

Look for a lathe with a quick change gear box, you won't regret it. A 9" South Bend is a good starter lathe, abundant and easy to get parts for. A 10" is far better, but not a model 10k, as the through hole in the spindle is not much larger than the 9" - look for a model 10L, aka the "Heavy 10". Much more mass and usually a 1 3/8" through hole in the spindle.

The 7x10 is a toy and so is the grizzy lathe you linked to. The South Bend is a step in the right direction, but still, a change gear lathe and very old, which means parts not so available.

 

[tdkkart]

The purists will tell you that Atlas lathes and mill-drills are ginormous pieces of **** that can't possibly make decent parts. However, when you look at the hobby mags and websites, where people are making parts so nice you'd give you left nut to be able do that work, if you look close MANY of them are using Atlas lathes, mill-drills, and assorted Chinese sourced equipment that are also rumored to be unuseable.

I picked up portions of an Atlas lathe nearly 20 years ago, put it back together with various bits and pieces sourced from all over, and made a functional machine. I taught myself to use it, and a milling machine. Learned enough to use them to build a bunch of nationally competative go-kart racing engines, made a fair amount of money with them, and also learned enough to qualify myself for the machine maintenance job that I currently hold.
Worthwhile investment it was.........

 

[tiggi]

I've looked at the mills in the larger midwest area and there is really nothing that's affordable for me. Looks like everything is prices above $2k so I might be going down the lathe path as originally planed.
So out of these 5 options that I currently have is the Altlas TH42 package still my best choice?

Atlas TH42 http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4753788143.html
South Bend 11x40 Metal Lathe - http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4732824040.html
CRAFTSMAN / ATLAS METAL LATHE - http://waterloo.craigslist.org/tls/4735247375.html
grizzly metal lathe - http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/4697542024.html
Small metal lathe 7" x 20" - http://lincoln.craigslist.org/tls/4750360501.html

 

[schor]

Get the atlas 42 IMO.

I've looked at the mills in the larger midwest area and there is really nothing that's affordable for me. Looks like everything is prices above $2k so I might be going down the lathe path as originally planed.
So out of these 5 options that I currently have is the Altlas TH42 package still my best choice?

Atlas TH42 http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4753788143.html
South Bend 11x40 Metal Lathe - http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4732824040.html
CRAFTSMAN / ATLAS METAL LATHE - http://waterloo.craigslist.org/tls/4735247375.html
grizzly metal lathe - http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/4697542024.html
Small metal lathe 7" x 20" - http://lincoln.craigslist.org/tls/4750360501.html

 

[Fretters]

Kevin,

I was a going to get a mill also down the road. I did look at the both on CL but just didn't find anything affordable as mills go. Maybe you're right, I should put the lathe on hold and look for a mill first. Thank you for your suggestions.

Personally, I'd class a lathe as preferable to a mill for general use. If I had the option between a mill and a lathe as my first machine, it would be the lathe hands down. A mill is something to aim for if desired, but not a necessity. Most of what you're likely wanting to do will generally be manageable on a lathe, somehow.

Regarding buying a machine, unless you go for new you'll always, realistically, have wear issues to consider. IMHO however, there's not really such a thing as a bad lathe. As with anything, when you start using something you'll come to find what limitations each machine may have, what you personally need from a machine etc., but that's the nature of the beast. Unless you're starting off with a specific need in mind, or need to work to stupidly tight tolerances, (which most don't, might I add), then any machine technically becomes a good starter machine, provided the general condition is sound. Plus, if a machine ain't great to start with, you don't feel gutted if you damage it slightly due to learning something you shouldn't do, the hard way.

Also, starting with a recalcitrant or limited capabilities machine can be good in that it makes you pay far more attention to things like technique, keeping your tooling sharp, adapting to work around wear and limitations etc. You move onto something better later on, and you always have those basics helping you use the machine to the best of its abilities. Someone who learns on a top spec, pristine machine, however, can be in a right puddle if they ever need to work with a machine which is less than stellar.

At the end of the day, any tool is exactly that, a tool. How capable, adept and proficient you are is the main factor. If you see something you like and can afford it, I'd say give it a shot. If you pay a realistic price, you should have little trouble recouping most if not all of what you spent on it if you ever decide to change. Tooling is always the one thing I like to see with a machine. That alone can be worth more than you'll pay for a machine, and getting some chucked in with a lathe or such is a good way to build up your collection cheaply. Tooling can generally be kept and used on different machines.

 

[Provincial]

The problem with a mill as the primary tool is that it takes a lot of expensive tooling to make it do all but the simplest tasks. Vises, rotary tables, indexers, angle attachments, and many, many different arbors and cutters. The purchase price of the machine is a fraction of the cost of all the tooling if you don't have a lathe, too.

An Atlas/Craftsman 10" or 12" lathe does pretty well on plastics and light (like aluminum) metals where the faster spindle speeds and roller bearing spindle allow running the cutting speed close to the ideal. They are less suited to steel, and the 3/4" spindle hole is a good indication of the maximum diameter they were meant to turn. I find that using "free-cutting" (also called "leaded") material greatly improves their performance. I use Caterpillar brand bolts that I salvage from diamantled equipment for raw material since it is very strong and cuts like butter!

The best way to improve the rigidity of an Atlas lathe is to bolt it to a massive (heavy) structure. A very thick piece of steel plate for a bench top is one example. I know of one case where a local fellow used two Craftsman 12" (the earlier version with the thin ways and the "tall compound" to convert the 10" model for a larger swing) to make 1-1/4" Acme screws for a paving machine. He cast concrete pyramid bases for each end of the lathe and ran 1-1/2 HP motors. He was able to cut the threads in three passes, but had to make half nuts from bronze and use steel change gears!

I have an Atlas QC-42 that I rebuilt over 25 years ago. I have only had a few times that the bed was too short to turn something. I would prefer it to have been a -54, but since I don't do gunsmithing on rifles, it hasn't been an issue.

The lack of the quick change gearbox on this lathe is the biggest drawback. Being able to change feed speeds quickly is a major productivity payoff. I would keep looking.

 

[FunkyfullWidth]

I look at machining as like playing an instrument. You learn on an hold hunk of ****, and when you step up to a good one, you sound amazing... Buy that lathe or one similar. You (probably) don't need a 14 x 40 as your first machine. My guess is that a bridgeport cnc isn't something you need right now.

These threads pop up like once a month and everyone says get the biggest machine you guy buy.. and then get a mill, and while your at it, you need a waterjet. Your not building aircraft carrier parts. Most people starting out are going through the basics. That machine is a decent size and at a decent price. Maybe try and haggle the dude down some, and when and if you feel you need a bigger machine. Sell that or keep it..

Personally, especially for a guy starting out, there's nothing better then a machine that is dirt simple, bare bones. It teaches you how the machines work and what every thing does. So what, you need to change a few gears or do some math and read a chart. I started with my atlas 618 at home... I've stripped it down a few times to clean it and I have a better understanding of things because of it. Now I jump on a machine at work and feel much more comfortable.

 

[tiggi]

So I didn't get that Atlas lathe, but still searching. Here is the latest find, please let me know what you think of it and what would be decent price for it. thanks

South Bend "Quick Change" 10" swing metal lathe.
Comes with owner's manual and parts list, face plate and drive dogs, tools posts and bit holders, 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, steady rest, follower rest, all special wrenches, ball bearing tail stock live center, new extra drive belt.

 

[rsanter]

Right off the bat I would pay $700 and be happy about it.
If I was selling I would start at about $1000 and depending on condition go up from there

Bob

 

[tiggi]

They are asking $1500 so I guess that's a bit high.

 

[paulsomlo]

If that is a 10", it's a very early one, maybe dating back to 1938 or so. I believe that's the original factory cabinet, which South Bend collectors would go gaga over, but for your purposes, probably not meaningful. From the pictures, I'd say the spindle bore is 1", better than the 3/4" bore of a 9" South Bend, but not as good as the 1 3/8" bore of the later 10" lathes. And if you've never owned a lathe, trust me, there's no such thing as too large a spindle bore.

At $1500, probably not going anywhere. Considering the inclusion of the steady and follow rests, if the bed were in good shape, somewhere between $700 and $1000 is not too farfetched.

I see there's a Sheldon for sale, as well. The Sheldon is a step up from a South Bend, much more machine than that 10", although his price is high. You might want to keep an eye on it.

 

[Steinmetz]

Atlas. Originators of ZAMAK parts (including gearing). Ecch.

 

[tiggi]

What are the limitations of this machine keeping in mind that it will be used for a hobby and fabricating other tools? Can it be using for threading?

 

[Steinmetz]

What are the limitations of this machine keeping in mind that it will be used for a hobby and fabricating other tools? Can it be using for threading?

Yes. Just as any other engine lathe can. You need too have the change gear set to provide the proper thread pitch.

 

[rsanter]

Yes it will do threading. It has the gearbox for it so you do not need the change gears.
The limitations are its size and age. However if you really only want to do caller stuff and the condition is good ( not a lot if wear) then that is a good machine.
If I were you I would go look at it. Look at the ways. Feel things for play and feel how everything moves. Also look and ask about any other stuff that may come with it that is not pictured. If you are there ask if he will take a little less and you never know. If there is other stuff with it and of its not worn then the value can go up a little and perhaps you can get it for $1200.
Lathe values largely vary based on what the supply and the demand in the area is

Bob

 

[Steinmetz]

Yes it will do threading. It has the gearbox for it so you do not need the change gears.
The limitations are its size and age. However if you really only want to do caller stuff and the condition is good ( not a lot if wear) then that is a good machine.
If I were you I would go look at it. Look at the ways. Feel things for play and feel how everything moves. Also look and ask about any other stuff that may come with it that is not pictured. If you are there ask if he will take a little less and you never know. If there is other stuff with it and of its not worn then the value can go up a little and perhaps you can get it for $1200.
Lathe values largely vary based on what the supply and the demand in the area is

Bob

I was unaware that the thing has a quick-change gearbox. It will not cut metric threads without suitable modification.

 

[tiggi]

I just ran into this one, I am thinking it's pretty cheap, am I wrong?
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/4863101137.html

 

[WhoWhatNow]

LeBlonde made very good lathes. That one is a monster. Looks very old by the looks of the oilers.

 

[larry_g]

I just ran into this one, I am thinking it's pretty cheap, am I wrong?
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/tls/4863101137.html

A couple of things on that lathe, 17" LeBlond, is that it is big, probably slow, and requires a lot of power.

Big= expensive tooling, probably have to have professional riggers move it.

Slow= slow spindle speed that is not friendly to turning small diameters.

Power= probably a big 3 phase motor that is not friendly to single phase power and probably not going to find a single phase in- 3 phase out cheaply.

That is a lot of lathe to learn on, kinda like having a semi truck to start learning how to drive. That is why it is so cheap. The owner finds it cheaper to have you get it out of there than it is to have it hauled to the scrap yard. Not saying the machine is a bad machine, its just the owner is probably unable to move it, or just like you got it cheap and then found it to expensive to get operating.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[tiggi]

That was my first thought, how the hell I get it to my house and unload it. Even thou the price is great I guess I keep on looking.

 

[Maui]

Tiggi, did you ever find a lathe?

Maui