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attach piano hinge, not destroy paint? toolbox

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Mr.Ric

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it's a snap on k60, the oldest one with rollers instead of slides. both long hinges have some damage, but I don't want to cause more. I'll post a few snaps of it later today.
 

rsanter

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All depends on what you consider damage?
Drill and put small solid rivits, but now you have put holes in the box but not burned the paint.

Spot weld. Will be on there correctly but you have now burned some paint.

Epoxy with a panel adhesive. You have not burned the paint but you will have to sand some of it off and you may get some epoxy squeeze out that may look bad. And then what if it dosent hold?

How bad are the hinges? Can they be fixed? Can one some be fixed and just replace the other?

Bob
 
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Mr.Ric

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the box
pic 2 and 3 depict the front fold down cover hinge, viewed from inside.
pic 4 depicts the rear hinge, inside
pic's 5 shows the rollers on top of each shelf.
pic 6 shows the roller channel and rollers on the bottom of the third drawer.
 

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Mr.Ric

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it may be preserving the paint is a worthless endeavor, considering the condition.
previous and ineffective attempts at repair included drilling holes and securing with sheet metal screws.
 

zkling

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it's a snap on k60, the oldest one with rollers instead of slides. both long hinges have some damage, but I don't want to cause more. I'll post a few snaps of it later today.

O dang, I wasn't expecting that. :drool:

I think you will have to make a choice of collector value and maintaining originality vs making a solid box. From the factory those hinges were spot welded on, then painted. Welding now would cause discoloration in the surrounding paint. But then drilling a hole for a rivet would be adding a hole that shouldn't be. An adhesive may be your best bet in this case. :dunno:
 
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ZRX61

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I'd spot-weld it, the paint is already way past any "patina" value... And I'd drill the box to hold everything in place with clecos while I spot-welded it.
 

rhtx

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I would drill out the spot welds holding the hinges on now, tig weld the existing holes closed, and spot weld replacement hinges back on. The paint you have now is not worth saving, I am guessing early to mid fifties vintage. By the looks of the close ups the existing hinge is not original anyway. I would suggest a complete media blast, etch primer & repaint, as the hinges would need to be removed anyway. The pulls for the drawers may be a bit hard to find, but this would be a very nice box once you are finished.
 
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rsanter

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I would drill out the spot welds holding the hinges on now, tig weld the existing holes closed, and spot weld replacement hinges back on. The paint you have now is not worth saving, I am guessing early to mid fifties vintage. By the looks of the close ups the existing hinge is not original anyway. I would suggest a complete media blast, etch primer & repaint, as the hinges would need to be removed anyway. The pulls for the drawers may be a bit hard to find, but this would be a very nice box once you are finished.

Do not drill out the exsisting welds just to weld up the holes...
Rather grind away at the metal of the hinge to remove it and leave the base material you want alone

Bob
 

Outlawmws

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Do not drill out the exsisting welds just to weld up the holes...
Rather grind away at the metal of the hinge to remove it and leave the base material you want alone

Bob

If you have to replace the hinge, this is the way to do it...

And its NOT 50's; its older...

Lastly, you need clean metal to spot weld, so attaching the hinge that way after paint or powder coat is not in the cards.
 

zkling

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I would drill out the spot welds holding the hinges on now, tig weld the existing holes closed, and spot weld replacement hinges back on. The paint you have now is not worth saving, I am guessing early to mid fifties vintage. By the looks of the close ups the existing hinge is not original anyway. I would suggest a complete media blast, etch primer & repaint, as the hinges would need to be removed anyway. The pulls for the drawers may be a bit hard to find, but this would be a very nice box once you are finished.

The box is from the early 40's if not late 30's. They stopped producing that style box in ~'47. Of which that is one of the earlier versions. Completely restoring a box like that is not always the best idea. Hence my comments above on the choices the owner will have to make.

Do not drill out the exsisting welds just to weld up the holes...
Rather grind away at the metal of the hinge to remove it and leave the base material you want alone

Bob

They make actual spot weld cutters for doing just that. Even a flat ground drill bit and a some care gets it done without harming the bottom piece.
 
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PugetDude

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Based on the age and condition, my vote would be spot-welding. It would be the least destructive of the methods you suggested. You're not going to diminish the value, in fact the welds may actually get lost in the patina...

Nice older box. Post pics when you're finished.
 
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Mr.Ric

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Great input, thanks. Spot weld sounds like the best and only way to go. I'll post as it gets done, and thanks again, it went from daunting, discouraged, to encouraged, way to go!
 

rsanter

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Great input, thanks. Spot weld sounds like the best and only way to go. I'll post as it gets done, and thanks again, it went from daunting, discouraged, to encouraged, way to go!

Where are you. I have a spot welder

Bob
 
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Mr.Ric

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Florida west coast. next questions will be, finding the best hinge, how best to prep and clamp. and how to find the right guy to weld it.
 
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Mr.Ric

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What is the best way to remove the existing hinge? I think I can locate the spot welds, would I drill those spots with something like a forstner bit?
 
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Mr.Ric

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I believe the hinge will need to be replaced. it's broken in two spots, and appears to be more narrow, and thinner in x-section than what came on the later produced chests. I"ll be trying to save the rear hinge, which also has a rib that runs most of the length, and is welded onto the hinge and box. On the later produced boxes which I have seen, that rib sits below the hinge.
 

rhtx

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There are many replacement piano style hinges available, it may be best to take your old one along and match as best you can. You may consider replacing it with a more stout hinge and may have to purchase one & cut it to length.
To "drill out" the spot welds, take a used drill bit approximately the same diameter or perhaps a size larger than the diameter of the spot welds you wish to remove. Reshape the end of the drill bit on a grinder to remove almost all of the existing bit angle, keep a container of cool water handy to keep the drill bit cool while grinding the angle to almost flat. You want the leading edge to still cut metal, but at an almost flat profile.
Center punch each spot weld & drill a "starter" hole using a two size smaller regular drill bit almost half way through the hinge side only. Then using the flat ground bit with the pilot hole as a center, drill slowly from the hinge side ( which is to be discarded) until you have almost punctured the hinge, take care NOT to drill through to any of the lid portion behind the hinge you wish to save. A little practice on the technique & tweaking (sharpening) the drill bit angle on a piece of scrap sheet metal and you will see how easy it is. The existing screws I noticed in your photos will need their holes filled by either welding (tig) or JB weld.
The paint looks very damaged in places, if you decide to try & save it, you may consider air brushing with many light coats to fill in the bad spots & blending with block & color sanding then buffing. Getting the correct shade of touch up paint will be the issue, but an experienced automotive paint shop would be the best place to get advice on how to achieve the correct shade. It certainly will never be as good as media blast (soda), etch primer, & repaint, especially once the hinge is removed, but I admire your desire to try & keep it as original as possible.
Contact your local welding company if they do not do spot welding (using a machine)
spotwelder_zps83944b31.jpg

I am sure they can offer who in your area does this type of work.
 
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