attaching welding table top?

[PoorOwner]

if I have a 1" steel top, and 1/4" rectangular tubing frame

set my MIG to highest it will go (about 210 amps rated for 1/4" with shielded gas)

doing short, 2" beads every 12". maybe 10 or 12 of these beads, not at once

Any chance of warping the top, assuming the top is grounded flat and want to preserve the flatness? I realize it's not a strong weld but I won't be hitting the top from the side. I know people like to use bolts to attach to the frame.

 

[rsanter]

I would do 1” beads every 24” and then let cool and fill in between till I have them every 6” around

 

[dr_clyde]

I used bolts. You'll warp it. Maybe just a little, but you will.

 

[PoorOwner]

Oh wow, I would think the other side would just get a little warm and won't be hotter than actual welding that will be done over the top.

Dr Clyde I couldn't find out what exactly you did, did you weld a nut or tap the top?

 

[dr_clyde]

Oh wow, I would think the other side would just get a little warm and won't be hotter than actual welding that will be done over the top.

Dr Clyde I couldn't find out what exactly you did, did you weld a nut or tap the top?

I tapped the top. My build thread shows how I made the brackets.

The heat from the weld pulls. Acts like little vises and pinches and shrinks everywhere you weld. It's how they straighten things like beams and bridges.

I did a thread on basic flame straightening if you want to know more.

 

[tarmy]

This top was clamped down hard...and essentially I did short tacks over a fair amount of time and was very careful to release the clamps and check flatness after a few welds cooled. Continued technique and the 1/2” top came out almost perfectly flat...very close to perfect. Slow process but yielded great results...

 

[sberry]

That little weld won't mean squat.

 

[Mitchw123456]

Do not weld it it will warp I don’t care what some say. That’s the sole reason I went through the hassle of bolting down my 1/2” top. I have made some for others out of 1” and they wanted them welded and they do warp. Here’s how I attached mine. It would have been easier to drill and tap but me being me I wanted a but under it and accessible for when I screw it up.
Plane Jane quick and dirty welding table
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...om/forum/showthread.php?t=404408&share_type=t



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[sanddan]

I did a thread on basic flame straightening if you want to know more.

I will be looking up that thread. I used to watch the experts in the fab shop straighten big plates (1" thk x 240" long) and was always amazed at the results.

 

[bullnerd]

I worked in a shop that had a 1/2" top on a square tube frame.

The top was held down with 3/8" flat head cap screws. The difference was they put a heavy duty O-ring between the top and frame at every bolt. Then they adjusted it until it was very flat.

When I first saw it I was thinking it would not feel solid, but it worked great.

 

[sberry]

I was on a nuke and they didn't fuk with the benches like we do here. There are some other career fabricators here that been around and will agree. I been places where owners drag some of this back, was never anything but a pain in the assignment and in the way,,,, hence the free one we see here. I know of a couple, one here in Michigan I bet a guy could get a deal on, probably seemed like a good.idea at the time,,, been down that road.

 

[PoorOwner]

what about drilling with annular cutter on a mag drill, is the heat and burr going to be an issue?

 

[jeepinerdeep]

what about drilling with annular cutter on a mag drill, is the heat and burr going to be an issue?

Very little of either occur.

 

[sberry]

If it was relatively flat would weld some posts to it, skip the frame. Some minor modest welds won't cause warp to that plate you could measure with a skinny cut hair.

 

[sberry]

I moved around a lot in the first 15 yes and did a variety after the fact being self employed. Built a landing hear for a plane, fuel trucks, oilfield, nuke, coal burners, hi rise, simple piping, hundreds trucks, cars, tractors, machines of all types, burners, flues, pumps, engines. Worked for 50 contractors and in well north of a dozen job shops.
Not one time have I ever needed a truly flat plate bench ad I can recall. Not once. Ain't even on my wish list and could have it if I wanted it.
Some of the world's finest work is done by guys with a few simple tools in a 5 gallon bucket and level in their pocket. There is obviously some difference between general fabrication and high level precision machine shop but I don't think that's what we are dealing with here.

 

[jdewitt]

I did a thread on basic flame straightening if you want to know more.

Here's the thread if anyone else wants to read it.

 

[dr_clyde]

You can want something and not need it.

I don't need a surface ground welding table, but I absolutely love having it. If the only argument against it is that it costs a few bucks more, so what? Not everything is about money. Sometimes it's just nice to have quality stuff.

 

[sberry]

what about drilling with annular cutter on a mag drill, is the heat and burr going to be an issue?

This isn't aimed at you or anyone else in particular but we.need to get a grip on who we are talking to. This appears to be a bench for a general shop and the owner is a guy with a 200 class mig with some flux core it it that would have trouble melting warm butter on: a hot day. A few short welds won't mean squat, biggest concern is a cracked weld on a thick plate. You don't need annular cutters or any other machine tools to build a bench.

Make it up, make.it useful. Put a shelf under it, some hangers for clamps and hammers. Sand splatter off once in and while.

 

[sberry]

You can want something and not need it.

I don't need a surface ground welding table, but I absolutely love having it. If the only argument against it is that it costs a few bucks more, so what? Not everything is about money. Sometimes it's just nice to have quality stuff.

I understand that but we often leave the impression he will benifit from this and he obviously doesn't see it in the same context as he is already worrying about it. Is he building this to use or "to love having it". If he came here and said,,, don't care what it costs, main point is to want it pretty, wants too impress someone with it then I would certainly have a different answer. But I figure this might need to be practical too.

 

[PoorOwner]

You can want something and not need it.

I don't need a surface ground welding table, but I absolutely love having it. If the only argument against it is that it costs a few bucks more, so what? Not everything is about money. Sometimes it's just nice to have quality stuff.

Thinking about this, don't steel stock usually come with a few thousands off?

do you also mill it before you use it? (if seriously you do, I want to know)

I guess having 1 flat is better than having both sides not flat.

 

[dr_clyde]

Thinking about this, don't steel stock usually come with a few thousands off?

do you also mill it before you use it? (if seriously you do, I want to know)

I guess having 1 flat is better than having both sides not flat.

As with most things, the answer is "it depends". Steel stock usually comes pretty close to on size. If the job you're doing requires a milled finish or a precise dimension you will typically buy oversized stock and mill, turn or grind to size. If it doesn't matter, the stocks mill size is usually fine. I would say that most projects use stock sizes and finishes. Occasionally I'll turn and face stock in the lathe or face mill some plates, but not often. It's expensive to do, and being able to use mill finishes on complete parts is a good thing. You only machine what the customer is paying you to machine.

I had my welding table Blanchard ground for 2 reasons. The primary was to remove the scale and make it smooth. Parts ground better, slide around easier, spatter doesn't stick, and the scale won't flake off and make an uneven surface. The second was to make a flat reference surface for laying out and fabricating precise weldments. I get into some weird things and having a flat surface takes one thing out of the equation for me to have to deal with. I routinely use spacers, fences and jigs to set up all kinds of parts. Having a flat table makes them all work together easier.

Does a home shop need this? No. Probably not. But there's no harm in it. It DOES make it easier and faster to turn out good work. It is very possible to do good work on the floor, on sawhorses or whatever. But I like giving myself the advantage. I like the easy way. It only cost a few bucks more to have a ground table. So why not?

 

[sberry]

What is it you want to do? Is this a showpiece or a work table? They can end up with thousands of scars.

 

[bimmer1980]

if I have a 1" steel top, and 1/4" rectangular tubing frame

set my MIG to highest it will go (about 210 amps rated for 1/4" with shielded gas)

doing short, 2" beads every 12". maybe 10 or 12 of these beads, not at once

Any chance of warping the top, assuming the top is grounded flat and want to preserve the flatness? I realize it's not a strong weld but I won't be hitting the top from the side. I know people like to use bolts to attach to the frame.

How much side load do you anticipate putting on this table??

Roughly, a 1/4" weld is good for at least about 1000 lbs per linear inch.

Depending on the size of the table, just do a couple of 1/2" long tack welds to keep the plate from sliding off the frame.

Otherwise, bolt an angle clip to a few places to the bottom of the 1" plate. Then tack weld the angle clips to your frame.

Git'r'done and then let's see some actual fab projects produced on the table.

 

[sberry]

The welds on a well designed bench don't need to do much. Most load is applied to posts.

 

[gorilla]

If you are going to have a plate Blanchard ground it would be silly to weld to it. Bolt it down with flat head screws. I agree with sberry about welding tables. When a weldment needs to be really accurate it's machined after welding no amount of clamping can keep metal from moving around when it's heated up that hot.

 

[bob_s2]

If you either have, or ever think you might get a plasma cutter, WELD that top ON! It is very important when used around any plasma cutter. I cannot stress this enough. You need to make sure that the top is a permanently attached structure.
If you do like I have done, and do not weld that top down tight, here's what will happen. One day you'll have a need to cut something, and you don't have any metal the thickness you need. Ah, but the welding table top! No, you say to yourself, I'll wait and get the steel I need at Napco steel in a couple days. Oh, and you may do just that. The first time. But then it will come up again. You'll be thinking "I just need to cut this piece out and move on." It will weigh on you. Your mind will flip to that table top even faster each time you need to cut a part out. You even start to come up with reasons why it's a good idea: "It would be great to be able to use a C clamp in the middle of the table" you tell yourself. "It will allow slag and spatter to fall through", you say. "I'll replace it and get a new fresh table top out of the deal" you mumble to yourself. Then you do it. From that point forward, there is no table top safe anywhere in your future. It's like crack. Once you've crossed that line, you'll cross it again, and again, and again. There is no 12 step program, unless you count the steps carrying another table top in from your truck!
--

 

[BD1]

You didn't say what the size is. A 4'x4'x1'' plate is probably around 600 pounds , it's not going anywhere. All you need are a dozen short 1'' welds to hold it .
You could tack nuts to the plate, add angle clips to the frame, and bolt it down too. Or angle on the corners and bolt that to the nut on plate.

 

[bczygan]

The idea of a super flat table is intriguing, especially to someone with perfectionist tendencies, like me.

So I would need to get one of those super thick cast iron tables with all the cast in webs underneath, that reinforce it.

Or maybe something that acts like the newest telescope mirrors. Many small segments that are adjusted electronically on the fly, by little stepper motors to keep it flat within a millionth of a millimeter. This would readjust it when sunlight fell on one part of the table and not on another.

Or..................I could just get a piece of steel and set it on some kind of base!!!

Bill

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I used some tabs. Its a compromise, but it hasn't popped from lack of fusion yet. I have a 3/8 and a 3/4 top.

 

[gearhead1]

I agree with sberry, most of us don’t truly need it to be perfectly flat. A couple of small beads will hold it on. If you want it blanchard ground, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Speaking very generically, not directed at anyone or any group, some of us have a tendency to over-engineer. I’m one of them. Big time. As I’ve gotten older, my time is more valuable. I’ve learned where I need to spend the time and do it right, and where to not worry about it. I’ve also learned where to leave a provision for future modification and get back to working on the things I need to be spending time on versus wasting time on things I don’t.

 

[sberry]

I get better with the overbuilding. I can use a power strip or a 3 way today for lots of stuff. I can blow a bolt hole with a torch or plasma on occasion.

 

[sberry]

I am more willing going in to do something twice if I have to, sometimes it's easier to redo something than to future proof or plan for every contingincy. Hence the cord and the 3 way or power strip, not so vested in something and scared to make a change.
At one time I had 19 outlets in about 5 ft. Much of it has become obsolete now, removed a couple strips. Actually 21.

 

[Strouty]

Sberry, your pictures are like a time capsule, 2005 called and they are looking for you.

 

[sberry]

I think those are 2005. Could be earlier.

 

[bggrnchvy]

Set the top on the frame.

Cut 8 pieces of angle, about 2" long.

Clamp a piece of angle to two sides of each of the legs such that they rest against the bottom of the top.

Tack the angle pieces to the bottom of the top. You really, really don't have to burn them all the way on if you have 4 nice hot tacks.

Now the top is secured from coming off the base, you haven't put a lot of heat into the top and shimming the top anywhere it meets the frame as it sags over it's lifetime is cake. Did I mention you didn't have to weld 12 lineal feet, drill and tap a 1" piece of steel multiple times or make a bunch of formed and punched specialty brackets.

Done.

 

[jonemark401]

Welded mine. 1 5/8 thickness top though. After running passes an inch long I could immediately place my hand on the opposite side.... too much mass and too great of a heat sink to effectively warp. I’d imagine 1 inch thick top would tolerate welding just as well.


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[cbacres]

Welded mine. 1 5/8 thickness top though. After running passes an inch long I could immediately place my hand on the opposite side.... too much mass and too great of a heat sink to effectively warp. I’d imagine 1 inch thick top would tolerate welding just as well.


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Jonemark, nice cutting on your base plates .

What size is your top?

 

[jonemark401]

Jonemark, nice cutting on your base plates .



What size is your top?

3 feet by 6 feet by 1 5/8 thick....... very usable size for me in my shop. I have a smaller 2 foot by 4 foot by 5/8 thick top that is precisely the same height. There are all sorts of combinations if I need more workspace.



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[NUTTSGT]

That looks like Dr Frankenstein's operating table.





My top is 1/4" thick, I clamped the heck out of is and welded it. If it warped, I'm oblivious to it.

 

[clappr]

That is a nice table