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Attic Stairs - Attach Stringers to Wall or Not?

ddurrett896

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Hey building garage stairs to access my attic.

Truss manufacture had me double up the truss on both sides of opening to support the load.

Can I just run the stringers to a 2x6 block between both sets of double trusses or should one of the stringers be nailed to the wall? Thanks!
 
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manwithtools

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If you can nail it to the wall, there is no reason not too. On the other hand, properly designed stringers don't need to be fasted to a wall. I would use doubled 2x6 between the trusses at the head of the stairs. There are joist hangers made for a double 2x and wold be good to use in this situation.
 

glentre

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Your weaker point is the block that supports the stair stringers between the trusses, more than the stringers themselves. Lag bolting one stringer to the wall would provide additional strength to the stair unit and be inexpensive as well as adding a support post from the center of the other stringer to the floor.

Glen
 

MeentSS02

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Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but a good portion of the load should be transferred to the ground for attic pull down stairs. The stairs themselves also shouldn't weigh that much, at least not the aluminum ones.

Or are you using something else?
 

manwithtools

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I understand these to be conventional stairs, not pull down stairs - otherwise I don't think he would be asking about nailing stringers to a wall? Don't know though without the OP telling us.
 
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dutchgray

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A 2x6" trimmer properly nailed between the trusses would hold up the stairs, I would use a double trimmer and a pair of 4" joist hangers myself though.
 

cdestuck

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Are you or have you finished the walls as in sheeting with osb, plywood, or drywall. Just remember that if you attach the stringers to your wall, there is no sliding your wall material back between you stairs and studded wall at a later point. So if you do attach, do so with screws so they can easily be backed out later if needed.
 
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ddurrett896

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I understand these to be conventional stairs, not pull down stairs - otherwise I don't think he would be asking about nailing stringers to a wall? Don't know though without the OP telling us.

Regular steps like in a 2 story house.
 
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ddurrett896

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If you can nail it to the wall, there is no reason not too. On the other hand, properly designed stringers don't need to be fasted to a wall. I would use doubled 2x6 between the trusses at the head of the stairs. There are joist hangers made for a double 2x and wold be good to use in this situation.

I see single hoist hangers but not double. Got an example? Thanks
 

manwithtools

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I see single hoist hangers but not double. Got an example? Thanks

Like this?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-HUC-Galvanized-Face-Mount-Concealed-Flange-Joist-Hanger-for-Double-2x6-HUC26-2/205227182

simpson-strong-tie-joist-hangers-huc26-2-64_1000.jpg


I think you can find them less expensive than this example...
 

CraigStu

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No. Not unless you have a wall designed for this. The load diagonally will tend to twist the wall like a corkscrew and make the wall/structure weaker.

^ This is bad.
I kind of see this point. Not sure it would be a problem but the stringers that are also nailed/screwed to the wall will be significantly stiffer. The other stringers will do their normal amount of flex movement. I would prefer both sides of the stairs to flex the same amount. If I were going to add a support or two to the away from the wall stringer, or close it in w/ a wall, I would then attach the other to the wall. Depends what will be done w/ the space under the stairs.
 

wssix99

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:headscrat
Seriously?

Yes. No material (wood, concrete, or steel) is solid and it bends. The wall will help keep the stringer from bending - some - but it will still bend a little and then take the wall with it. (a little bit) When the wall moves with a bending diagonal stringer across it, the shape (very slight) will be a corkscrew. This makes the wall weaker.

Is it a big deal? Is it super duper unsafe? I don't know. (One would need to do calculations.) It's definitely not the strongest configuration.
 

wssix99

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I would prefer both sides of the stairs to flex the same amount. If I were going to add a support or two to the away from the wall stringer, or close it in w/ a wall, I would then attach the other to the wall.

Yes, this would be fine. (Attaching to walls on both sides to both stringers. The effect would be like having platforms underneath the stringers the entire way.) If both sides are attached the same and walls are on both sides, the stair case would not lean or twist and all the loads would stay parallel to the walls.
 
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PugetDude

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Yes. No material (wood, concrete, or steel) is solid and it bends. The wall will help keep the stringer from bending - some - but it will still bend a little and then take the wall with it. (a little bit) When the wall moves with a bending diagonal stringer across it, the shape (very slight) will be a corkscrew. This makes the wall weaker.

Is it a big deal? Is it super duper unsafe? I don't know. (One would need to do calculations.) It's definitely not the strongest configuration.

So, how do you explain diagonal wall bracing? :headscrat

I've built quite a few sets of stairs, always fastened the inboard side to the wall when we could. Usually put a 2x6 on the wall and then nailed the stringer to that so the drywallers could slip a simple angle-l cut sheet in behind the stringer and rough treads.

Fastening one side doesn't make the stairs any weaker- it actually makes them stiffer since the entire structure is anchored by one fixed side.

Of course, YMMV.
 

PugetDude

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Great, now I gotta worry my 2x6, 16" OC, 1/2" OSB clad wall will crash down on me when I climb my stairs...:wtf:

They probably won't crash down but they will corkscrew. I know that for a fact, I read it on the internet.

Hopefully it will be a "mild" Class 1 corkscrew event, not a "monster" Class 5 corkscrew episode that launches you out into space with a crash landing the middle of the garage floor. Either way, for safety's sake don't carry an actual corkscrew while ascending or descending those stairs. That would be like running with scissors.
You have been warned.
 
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spudley

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They probably won't crash down but they will corkscrew. I know that for a fact, I read it on the internet.

Hopefully it will be a "mild" Class 1 corkscrew event, not a "monster" Class 5 corkscrew episode that launches you out into space with a crash landing the middle of the garage floor. Either way, for safety's sake don't carry an actual corkscrew while ascending or descending those stairs. That would be like running with scissors.
You have been warned.
No corkscrew for me, I'm a beer guy. Actually my stairs are fine as I built a wall on both sides, and I did exactly as you mentioned with the 2x6 for drywall purposes.

I'm putting a toilet under the stairs so I needed the wall for privacy anyway.

Now using 2x10's for rough treads with 3/4 screwed on ply risers, that would support two elephants. In my spare non beer drinking time, the plan is to build finish treads harvested from a maple tree that used to live where the garage now stands.

So maybe the OP should build an outside wall and then fasten the stringers on both sides. Never know when the elephants might stop by.:beer:
 

frankd

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I had new stairs installed on my previous house and the stair builder did screw the stringer to the wall in several spots on the underside of the stairs. Stairs held up for 10 years with no issues and no twisting/corkscrew issues
 

wssix99

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So, how do you explain diagonal wall bracing? :headscrat

Diagonal bracing takes loads parallel to its (straight) long axis where it is strong. Stringers take loads in the other direction, where they are weak.

In this example here -> if the stringer was screwed to the wall with no stairs, then it would be all good - just like a diagonal brace.

But when a stringer is added on the other side, (so both stringers are supported differently from each other) the stair case cantilevers a bit to one side and the assembly will twist as load goes on it and the less supported stringer bends more. As the stair case twists, it will also twist the wall with it, slightly like a cork screw. (Not enough to see or feel much, but enough to weaken the wall from what it would be otherwise.)


I've built quite a few sets of stairs, always fastened the inboard side to the wall when we could. Usually put a 2x6 on the wall and then nailed the stringer to that so the drywallers could slip a simple angle-l cut sheet in behind the stringer and rough treads.

This is a useful arrangement and I've done similar installs before. Structurally, a more elegant way to do this would be to secure the 2X6 to the stringer (to pad it out) before putting up the stair case and not attach either to the wall.


Fastening one side doesn't make the stairs any weaker- it actually makes them stiffer since the entire structure is anchored by one fixed side.

Correct. It makes no difference for the stairs - but the wall gets weaker. If there is a situation where the stairs deflect and need an intermediate attachment, they should probably be supported on both sides.


They probably won't crash down but they will corkscrew. I know that for a fact, I read it on the internet.

Or, you can use calculus.


Hopefully it will be a "mild" Class 1 corkscrew event, not a "monster" Class 5 corkscrew episode that launches you out into space with a crash landing the middle of the garage floor. Either way, for safety's sake don't carry an actual corkscrew while ascending or descending those stairs. That would be like running with scissors.
You have been warned.

I mentioned below that this will probably not ever cause a real problem for most situations. This type of thing becomes worse than running with scissors in the extreme cases like hurricanes and earthquakes where the wall gets pushed to its limit.

If these details aren't important, then we can throw out every other hurricane strap, skip the plywood clips, pass on gluing down shingles and all that other stuff. What the hell - if this actually happens the homeowner won't be around to complain and we'll be long since gone.
 
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manwithtools

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Diagonal bracing takes loads parallel to its (straight) long axis where it is strong. Stringers take loads in the other direction, where they are weak.

In this example here -> if the stringer was screwed to the wall with no stairs, then it would be all good - just like a diagonal brace.

But when a stringer is added on the other side, (so both stringers are supported differently from each other) the stair case cantilevers a bit to one side and the assembly will twist as load goes on it and the less supported stringer bends more. As the stair case twists, it will also twist the wall with it, slightly like a cork screw. (Not enough to see or feel much, but enough to weaken the wall from what it would be otherwise.)




This is a useful arrangement and I've done similar installs before. Structurally, a more elegant way to do this would be to secure the 2X6 to the stringer (to pad it out) before putting up the stair case and not attach either to the wall.




Correct. It makes no difference for the stairs - but the wall gets weaker. If there is a situation where the stairs deflect and need an intermediate attachment, they should probably be supported on both sides.




Or, you can use calculus.




I mentioned below that this will probably not ever cause a real problem for most situations. This type of thing becomes worse than running with scissors in the extreme cases like hurricanes and earthquakes where the wall gets pushed to its limit.

If these details aren't important, then we can throw out every other hurricane strap, skip the plywood clips, pass on gluing down shingles and all that other stuff. What the hell - if this actually happens the homeowner won't be around to complain and we'll be long since gone.

Tilting at windmills here.

If the stair stringers are strong enough to support the stairs without attachment to the wall, then they are strong enough to prevent any "abnormal" deflection issue for the wall they might be attached too. You don't need calculus to to calculate a deflection so small as to be considered insignificant. This is rough framing, their is no need for FEA to determine if the stringers are sufficient. Standardized construction techniques allow for all of this.

Hell, the fasteners that hold the staircase together may allow the staircase to "twist" without ever effecting the wall. It just doesn't matter.
 

rburke65

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Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but a good portion of the load should be transferred to the ground for attic pull down stairs. The stairs themselves also shouldn't weigh that much, at least not the aluminum ones.

Or are you using something else?

No one said anything about a ‘pull down’ stairs. These are a set of steps he’s building using stringers.
 

PugetDude

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If these details aren't important, then we can throw out every other hurricane strap, skip the plywood clips, pass on gluing down shingles and all that other stuff. What the hell - if this actually happens the homeowner won't be around to complain and we'll be long since gone.

You were pretty logical until you resorted to this ridiculous straw man fallacy.

Could you possibly direct us to the section of the building code that prohibits nailing stair stringers to adjoining walls? :headscrat
 

wssix99

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Could you possibly direct us to the section of the building code that prohibits nailing stair stringers to adjoining walls? :headscrat

You know that codes don't work that way and don't print out every single improper or sub-optimal or dangerous thing someone might do. (Again, I'm not saying nailing one stringer to a wall is dangerous in all situations.)

There are very fine situations where one may want to add additional support to stringers. (Walls on each side, supports across both stringers, etc.)

The OP is asking for "the best" way to do this. I suggest that securing one stringer to the wall is not "the best" because it weakens the wall. I would also suggest that this would not be "the best" because we don't see stair manufacturers providing instructions to use this method, either.
 

firebirdparts

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Honestly, that is not a reasonable thing to post at all. It's just not. But then again, it wasn't much of a reasonable question either. If you build anything at all, you are free to try stuff, and you learn.
 

danfromsyr

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but the wall on my house sits on rubble field stones bound together with a sand mix 'mortar'
just stacked sticks sitting on loosely gathered rocks..

with ~200yr old stairs nailed to the outside wall of 1in planks.. must be because they're also fastened to a 1in plank 'curtain wall' on the other side keeps it all together.
but 1in planks nailed with square nails offered minimal shear against racking.. must be the cobwebs keep it all straight.. well as straight as they can,.

I don't think 200yr old houses were built out of square, I believe the magnetic poles have realigned since it was built.
 
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PugetDude

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I don't think 200yr old houses were built out of square, I believe the magnetic poles have realigned since it was built.

It's the square cut nails. Everyone knows they attract magnetism better than round nails, especially if the heads are facing North. The magnetism slips off the side of a round nail.:lol_hitti
 

wssix99

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Hey building garage stairs to access my attic.

Truss manufacture had me double up the truss on both sides of opening to support the load.

Can I just run the stringers to a 2x6 block between both sets of double trusses or should one of the stringers be nailed to the wall? Thanks!

Sorry, it looks like you are going to have to skip this and put in an elevator. :dunno:
 
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