Attic Stairs - Suggestions

[Milzo]

I am working on finishing the inside of my outbuilding/shop its 36x48x15. The trusses are "attic trusses" designed to carry weight. I want to store stuff up there that I don't use often. The space is 14'w x 44'l x 7'h and will not be heated. I am going to build another attic lift like the one in this thread from my old house in the center of the rear wall. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233122

The outside truss sits above the framed wall, the next set of inside trusses are about 40" away from the outside wall to leave an opening for the stairs. I am looking for creative ideas on how to seal off the stairwell opening with a hatch, exterior door etc. The challenge is I would like my attic lift to be close to centered in the 36'w dimension of the rear wall. If i were to do that I would only have about 60"-70" of height for a door at the top of the steps. I am not having any luck finding an exterior door that short. I don't really want to do a hatch because i plan on living in this house for a long time and don't know if I will have the strength down the road to push up a hatch everytime I want in the attic. Interested in seeing if any of you have creative solution.

Thanks

Jason



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[jmarkwolf]

I have a similar scenario to yours.

I have an insulated stud wall enclosing the staircase, with a door at the bottom of the stairs. Separating the heated downstairs, and the un-heated upstairs and stairwell. Although my staircase is straight, without the dogleg yours has.

I also have a "closet" underneath the staircase to make use of the floor space.

 

[Milzo]

I have a similar scenario to yours.

I have an insulated stud wall enclosing the staircase, with a door at the bottom of the stairs. Separating the heated downstairs, and the un-heated upstairs and stairwell. Although my staircase is straight, without the dogleg yours has.

I also have a "closet" underneath the staircase to make use of the floor space.

Thanks for the response. I thought about a door at the bottom of the stairs but I don't think I will like how that looks because the ceiling is so tall there will be a lot of blank wall space above the door and I think it will be a pain to keep the stairs clean if they are in a hallway of sorts. I would also have to add lighting in the stairwell which I didnt run wires for. I haven't ruled that out though.

 

[spudley]

I have a similar set up but only two steps up to a landing, then a 90 degree turn like your design (total rise of 10'6"). I'm heating the downstairs so until I build a sliding barn door, I'm resting a 4x8 1" foam on the second step tight against the landing opening.

Maybe frame out the upper stairway and place a sliding door there?

 

[hansen1]

I have almost the same size building and similiar trusses. I built this back in 2008.
Thought I would share what I did to maybe give you some other ideas. I had my trusses built to handle 100 lb/sqft. These ended up being 2x10 top and bottom chords. What helped the most was how they recommended I build the floor. Install 2x4 perpendicular to the trusses. These are screwed and glued down horizontally. On top of these 2x4, I screwed and glued 3/4" tongue and groove OSB subfloor sheeting. The floor seems almost as solid as my concrete. You lose just over 2" of height but it is very solid. My trusses are on 19" centers.

For access, I didn't want to lose the floor and wall space of stairs so I built an elevator in the same location as you show for your 40" opening. It is in the center of the back wall and centered in the attic area. Works great and I lift up anything that fits on the 7'X30" platform. I insulated the bottom of the platform and store it in the opening. It is not an air tight seal but seems to work pretty well. I have wanted to put some brush type seals around the platform but never got around to it. If interested, I can take some pictures.

 

[IMCA38]

Why couldn’t you put a large trap door at the top of the stairs and mount a HF type 110v cable hoist above the hinged end with the cable connected to the opening end of the trap door. Put a switch for the hoist downstairs.
Just hit the switch to open the trap door and go upstairs.

Many years ago, my grandparents lived in a house that had finished storage in the attic above the two car garage. They had a regular staircase to access this. However, it was hinged at the top and a cable hoist lifted the entire staircase up into the ceiling, closing up the opening. There was a switch on the wall in the garage to run the hoist and it lowered the staircase down into the area between the two parked cars. I always thought that was really cool.

 

[Milzo]

I have a similar set up but only two steps up to a landing, then a 90 degree turn like your design (total rise of 10'6"). I'm heating the downstairs so until I build a sliding barn door, I'm resting a 4x8 1" foam on the second step tight against the landing opening.

Maybe frame out the upper stairway and place a sliding door there?

That is a possibility. Thanks for the suggestion.

I have almost the same size building and similiar trusses. I built this back in 2008.
Thought I would share what I did to maybe give you some other ideas. I had my trusses built to handle 100 lb/sqft. These ended up being 2x10 top and bottom chords. What helped the most was how they recommended I build the floor. Install 2x4 perpendicular to the trusses. These are screwed and glued down horizontally. On top of these 2x4, I screwed and glued 3/4" tongue and groove OSB subfloor sheeting. The floor seems almost as solid as my concrete. You lose just over 2" of height but it is very solid. My trusses are on 19" centers.

For access, I didn't want to lose the floor and wall space of stairs so I built an elevator in the same location as you show for your 40" opening. It is in the center of the back wall and centered in the attic area. Works great and I lift up anything that fits on the 7'X30" platform. I insulated the bottom of the platform and store it in the opening. It is not an air tight seal but seems to work pretty well. I have wanted to put some brush type seals around the platform but never got around to it. If interested, I can take some pictures.

That opening your referring to is for an attic lift / elevator like i built in my old house. See video

I thought about just using it as my way of getting into the attic but I am a little nervous about the safety and when i have it loaded I can't get myself into the attic unless i ride it with the load.

 

[matt_i]

Seeing that stage of work, I'm going to advise you to resist the temptation to throw down the plywood decking and start putting things in there.

If you were going to do loose fill insulation, my advice is to wait until the ceiling drywall is up, then place the loose fill insulation. This will be approx 99X easier than trying to fill it between two previously-sheeted layers. Using a blower does push it down there but I've discovered serious voids in the existing part of my shop, and I built my addition the same way. Nobody can see down there to visualize what's happening unless you can wait until the drywall is up...don't have to mud+tape+finish it, but just get the basic ceiling hung. If doing metal, same advice.

 

[ddawg16]

How about a spiral stair case? Takes up minimal floor space

 

[Milzo]

Seeing that stage of work, I'm going to advise you to resist the temptation to throw down the plywood decking and start putting things in there.

If you were going to do loose fill insulation, my advice is to wait until the ceiling drywall is up, then place the loose fill insulation. This will be approx 99X easier than trying to fill it between two previously-sheeted layers. Using a blower does push it down there but I've discovered serious voids in the existing part of my shop, and I built my addition the same way. Nobody can see down there to visualize what's happening unless you can wait until the drywall is up...don't have to mud+tape+finish it, but just get the basic ceiling hung. If doing metal, same advice.

Agree 100%. I need to get the stairs built and attic lift built and installed first. After that is done my Amish crew is coming to install the metal ceiling so they know where it ends at the stair opening and lift opening. After the ceiling is installed the insulator will blow the entire ceiling with R-30 under the storage area and R-38 in the remaining portion of the attic. Then i can use the lift to bring the 3/4" sheets of plywood up there and sheet the floor.

 

[Milzo]

How about a spiral stair case? Takes up minimal floor space

Thought about that too. Besides being very expensive i don't really like using them. Thanks though.

 

[hansen1]

That is a possibility. Thanks for the suggestion.







That opening your referring to is for an attic lift / elevator like i built in my old house. See video

I thought about just using it as my way of getting into the attic but I am a little nervous about the safety and when i have it loaded I can't get myself into the attic unless i ride it with the load.

That is what I do. Works well. I was initially concerned about the same things but in 12 years have never had an issue. I use a 1 Ton hoist that I can control from below to lower it and from both sides of the platform when going up and down. I have put several hundred lbs at a time on the lift. The hoist is a used industrial hoist.

My elevator support is built out of I-beams. All the weight of the system goes down to the floor so nothing is supported by the trusses or the wall.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[hansen1]

Agree 100%. I need to get the stairs built and attic lift built and installed first. After that is done my Amish crew is coming to install the metal ceiling so they know where it ends at the stair opening and lift opening. After the ceiling is installed the insulator will blow the entire ceiling with R-30 under the storage area and R-38 in the remaining portion of the attic. Then i can use the lift to bring the 3/4" sheets of plywood up there and sheet the floor.

I put rigid poly-iso insulation under the floor and blew in the sides. Was able to get R-50ish under the floor and R-60 everywhere else. Used the same poly-iso under the elevator platform to seal the opening.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Milzo]

Why couldn’t you put a large trap door at the top of the stairs and mount a HF type 110v cable hoist above the hinged end with the cable connected to the opening end of the trap door. Put a switch for the hoist downstairs.
Just hit the switch to open the trap door and go upstairs.

Many years ago, my grandparents lived in a house that had finished storage in the attic above the two car garage. They had a regular staircase to access this. However, it was hinged at the top and a cable hoist lifted the entire staircase up into the ceiling, closing up the opening. There was a switch on the wall in the garage to run the hoist and it lowered the staircase down into the area between the two parked cars. I always thought that was really cool.

I missed your post when reading them earlier. I have seen something like that and that is a viable option as well.

 

[kbs2244]

A hatch can be counter balanced pretty easily

 

[Toymeister]

I have electric stairs. I hit a button the hatch opens and the stairs telescope out.

No it was not my idea, I would never pay that much for them. They came with the house, they are neat, though. Here is one brand https://majicstairsinc.com/.

Perhaps you can get some ideas from this.

 

[Milzo]

I have electric stairs. I hit a button the hatch opens and the stairs telescope out.

No it was not my idea, I would never pay that much for them. They came with the house, they are neat, though. Here is one brand https://majicstairsinc.com/.

Perhaps you can get some ideas from this.

those are really nice

 

[CraigStu]

Mine is more like the opening that conventional attic stairs come down from but may give you an idea. I cut a piece of plywood a couple inches larger than the opening and hinged it on one long side. I ran a piece of rope upward from the other side through a pulley and let it hang w/ a weight on it. The weight almost but not quite balances the door when it is down. So I go up and only need to push w/ a couple pounds of force for the door to open.

 

[jetnow1]

I put in a stairway with a landing 3 steps up to make the turn, boxed it in to insulate the
downstairs as upper floor is only for storage. Put in a steel door at the bottom to maintain the seal and fireproof the garage as much as possible. The space over the door is wall, same as wall everywhere else. I boxed in under the landing and bottom stairs, ran drywall under the rest of the stairs, put the compressor there. If I find I cannot
stand the noise from the compressor I can box off the rest of the area. I found the lights upstairs give me enough light on the stairs.

 

[fourbyford]

If you do any wood working, it's really not that hard to build a door. I've built a number of frame and panel doors to match ones in vintage houses. Today, I'm building an insulated version that won't be elaborate but would be plenty good for what you're doing. I'll post a description and pics in my thread late this evening or tomorrow morning.

...D

 

[cadunkle]

I wouldn't want to waste floor space no matter how large the building, for occasional unconditioned storage access. I would just use a drop down ladder or build a more robust ladder into a wall. Easy to seal, out of the way when not in use. If climbing bothers you then get one of those fancy heavy duty drop down staircases linked above.

Personally I have one of the cheap and common drop down ladders. I added stick on foam weatherstripping strips to seal the hatch door when closed, and mounted pulley blocks above the opening to lift anything too heavy or bulky to safely carry while climbing the ladder. Cheap and simple, good enough to my infrequent attic access.

 

[pbon]

The OP has a pretty good size shop. If he plans to use the attic much, real stairs are nice. As is a trap door, I beam and electric hoist mounted across the collar ties. Should be fine to lift 500 lbs if the beam is hung from a number of ties.

 

[Fatboy148]

I did the same thing as was depicted in the plan posted. It eats up a lot of space, even when considering using the under stair space for a air compressor closet. The stairwell should be a rated enclosure, as in 5/8" drywall on both sides of the wall and a rated door at the bottom of the stairwell. In retrospect, an outside stairwell may have been a better option.

 

[Milzo]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I’m thinking no stairs now, use the attic lift as main way to get up and down and put in an access panel just in case the lift dies or breaks. I’d like to save the floor space. Was thinking maybe just leave one of those fire escape ladders in the attic just in case the lift stops working and I am in the attic.