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Autel MK 808 scan tool-comments?

tarmy

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Been looking for an upgraded scan tool for trying to figure out things on kids old 2005 Tahoe...and the rest of the vehicles we have too.

In the 500-800ish range there are basically 2 makes that seem to be what the reviews suggest. Autel and Launch X431.

I have spent hours looking at videos, the makers sites and reviews. I think the Autel should be good for my needs which is mostly diagnosis. I do need live data info of individual cylinder behavior as well...just checking in with the GJ gang...

Looking for any comments, thoughts and suggestions.
 
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Djosbun

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I believe the Launch has bi-directional control, but that might be one of the other X431 models (they have a few, if I recall). The Autel does not.

-- Dave
 

2ndGearRubber

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From what I can tell, no bi-directional on the mk808. It will do the "service" level functions like EPB and resetting oil lights. You aren't gonna have any "active tests" either, so no running manufacturer specific code/system related tests.



What are you actively trying to diagnose, and what level of future diagnostic problems are you wishing to tackle? What kinds of cars and what years? Picking a scan tool isn't based on cost. Your intended usage dictates required tooling. You can then spend what that costs, or compromise on abilities of what you're buying.
 
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tarmy

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From what I can tell, no bi-directional on the mk808. It will do the "service" level functions like EPB and resetting oil lights. You aren't gonna have any "active tests" either, so no running manufacturer specific code/system related tests.



What are you actively trying to diagnose, and what level of future diagnostic problems are you wishing to tackle? What kinds of cars and what years? Picking a scan tool isn't based on cost. Your intended usage dictates required tooling. You can then spend what that costs, or compromise on abilities of what you're buying.

The specific current problem is a P0300 misfire code...which could be about a dozen things on a Chevy. So the test I need is to detect specific cylinder misfire...or if it is O2 sensors, fuel pressure...etc.

The bi-directional ability seems a bit past my pay grade...unless I wanted to shut the injectors down one at a time to see if they are the cause. The MK808BT is the Autel version that could do that test...and the Launch can too. Both those set ups are about 800...which I am considering.

The other current cars are a 2006 Silverado 6.0, 2018 Honda Pilot and 2016 Tahoe....
 

2ndGearRubber

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The MK808BT lists bi-directional control unless the info is inaccurate

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07KXDKWRS/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?smid=A337MHCIDK2SYP&psc=1


I went off the autel site, not amazon. They seem to make it purposely confusing. As far as I can tell, the MK808 cannot cycle a vent valve, or hold it closed for an EVAP smoke test.

https://www.autel.com/autelcms/Online Products/574.jhtml

https://www.autel.com/autelcms/Automotive Diagnostic& Analysi/548.jhtml

The former is the 808, the latter the 906. Only the 906 lists " active test" which is how my 906 lists bi-directionals.

The 808 can do resets:



Relearn parking brake pad after replacement

Support IMMO functions

Support forced DPF regeneration and adjusting injectors

Reset Steering Angle Sensor (SAS)

Reset service mileage and service intervals

Support TPMS sensor relearn

Support battery registration and reset


The specific current problem is a P0300 misfire code...which could be about a dozen things on a Chevy. So the test I need is to detect specific cylinder misfire...or if it is O2 sensors, fuel pressure...etc.

The bi-directional ability seems a bit past my pay grade...unless I wanted to shut the injectors down one at a time to see if they are the cause. The MK808BT is the Autel version that could do that test...and the Launch can too. Both those set ups are about 800...which I am considering.

The other current cars are a 2006 Silverado 6.0, 2018 Honda Pilot and 2016 Tahoe....


A generic code reader, ideally with decoded mode $6, can do that. A P0300 code needs fuel trim data, and cylinder misfire counters primarily. That chevy is unlikely to have fuel pressure as a data line.

IMO, you need 20 dollar code reader for that. Check the coolant temp reading in freeze frame at which the code set. Also check short/long term fuel trims when the code set. Start the engine cold, record cold trims at idle and 3k rpm steady. If you can feel it missing, it's basic troubleshooting. If you can't feel it, you need the cylinder misfire counters. The 808 would make life easier doing any of this, but certainly isn't required. Of course, the 808 will likely not do a crank misfire profile correction procedure, which may be the actual fix. No scan tool can give you a definitive test to say "Code X, here's your problem part Y".


300 means the computer doesn't know what cylinder the miss is on or the miss is random, or occurring on multiple cylinders. Mode $6 is your friend for that. IME if a GM of that era misfires and it's not a constant obvious miss; and it's not a vacuum leak from the intake gaskets, it's plugs/wires.


EDIT: Big one I see is aftermarket wires having loose crimps to the steel tang that grabs the spark plug. I oval the wire ends out before installation for a more positive fit.
 

Yarpo

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I went off the autel site, not amazon. They seem to make it purposely confusing. As far as I can tell, the MK808 cannot cycle a vent valve, or hold it closed for an EVAP smoke test.

https://www.autel.com/autelcms/Online Products/574.jhtml

https://www.autel.com/autelcms/Automotive Diagnostic& Analysi/548.jhtml

The former is the 808, the latter the 906. Only the 906 lists " active test" which is how my 906 lists bi-directionals.

The 808 can do resets:



Relearn parking brake pad after replacement

Support IMMO functions

Support forced DPF regeneration and adjusting injectors

Reset Steering Angle Sensor (SAS)

Reset service mileage and service intervals

Support TPMS sensor relearn

Support battery registration and reset

Good call, I think you might be right. I could have sworn I checked Autels site long ago when I added this to my cart (Just watching to see if it drops!) but I must be miss remembering or I was checking out something else. *****. I really like the MK808, priced well but no bidirectional controls kind of kills it.
 

2ndGearRubber

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Good call, I think you might be right. I could have sworn I checked Autels site long ago when I added this to my cart (Just watching to see if it drops!) but I must be miss remembering or I was checking out something else. *****. I really like the MK808, priced well but no bidirectional controls kind of kills it.

Depends what you need and want. In the "close the vent valve" situation I mentioned earlier, just provide ground to the valve KOEO; I prefer that to the bi-directional test as it has no time limits or constraints. I could also supply power and ground to the vent and do the test with the ignition switched off.

You'd be surprised how many bi-directional tests can be completed with 30ft test leads, a test light, and a data only scan tool.
 

Djosbun

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A scan tool is not going to tell you what is causing a misfire code. Only proper diagnostics will pinpoint the problem. Using a $80 code reader will yield the same results as a $2400 Snap On scanner. If you used a Snap On Verus Ultra it will not tell you what is causing the misfire code. A scanner that offers live data will help give you additional diagnostic tools (for example, if you have a very high short term fuel trim reading, which would tell you the computer is adding additional fuel due to a lean condition, perhaps from a severe vacuum leak). There are many scan tools under $300 that offer live data info.

There are quite a few things that can cause cylinder misfires, so you just need to start your diagnostics and work to find the problem.

-- Dave
 

Yarpo

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Depends what you need and want. In the "close the vent valve" situation I mentioned earlier, just provide ground to the valve KOEO; I prefer that to the bi-directional test as it has no time limits or constraints. I could also supply power and ground to the vent and do the test with the ignition switched off.

You'd be surprised how many bi-directional tests can be completed with 30ft test leads, a test light, and a data only scan tool.

Of course, most of them are all about convenience. But if somones buying a fancy scan tool you can bet convince would be a big factor in that decision. To be honest I'd probably never need bi directional stuff at home, if I did I'd just bring it to work. That said you never know. Maybe a new shop or new job in the future, so I'd probably future proof my purchase and will probably cross the MK808 off my list, even tho I really liked it and its price point.
 
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tarmy

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You guys are great...thank you for the detailed comments...

Replaced plugs...same code throw...

The kids replaced the oil pressure sending unit a month ago...it worked fine till last week. I think he may have displaced vacuum line trying to get back to that **** location way in back...he says he checked...but...

Next, wires and o2 sensors to see if the fuel feed is the issue...

Part of the issue I have is kid is in CO with the car at college...I am in CA. So I am visiting him for a couple days and was thinking that the upgraded code reader ( I have a good Innova, no live data)...would help speed things along. I am not a mechanic...but good with cars...just not this mystery ****. I am flying back with wires, o2 sensors (up stream on the fuel issue potential. My kid is guessing the misfire is on one bank) and a couple of coil packs.

I am very interested by your comments on the bi-direction functions...plus being able to watch live data by cylinder might be handy.

I guess my only question at this point is should I get a good reader...and get a bidirectional one?

Either way, I need to get diagnosing and try to get the damn thing running again. Been a good vehicle...bought new and it has 225K on it with no real issues till now.
 

Luciferi

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You might look at the Autel md808pro. It looks to do what the mk808 does without the touchscreen for alot less money.
 
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2ndGearRubber

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You guys are great...thank you for the detailed comments...

Replaced plugs...same code throw...

The kids replaced the oil pressure sending unit a month ago...it worked fine till last week. I think he may have displaced vacuum line trying to get back to that **** location way in back...he says he checked...but...

Next, wires and o2 sensors to see if the fuel feed is the issue...

Part of the issue I have is kid is in CO with the car at college...I am in CA. So I am visiting him for a couple days and was thinking that the upgraded code reader ( I have a good Innova, no live data)...would help speed things along. I am not a mechanic...but good with cars...just not this mystery ****. I am flying back with wires, o2 sensors (up stream on the fuel issue potential. My kid is guessing the misfire is on one bank) and a couple of coil packs.

I am very interested by your comments on the bi-direction functions...plus being able to watch live data by cylinder might be handy.

I guess my only question at this point is should I get a good reader...and get a bidirectional one?

Either way, I need to get diagnosing and try to get the damn thing running again. Been a good vehicle...bought new and it has 225K on it with no real issues till now.

When you changed the oil pressure sender, did you remove the intake manifold?

If you're loading up parts, bring intake gaskets. If they've never been changed, I suspect that's your issue. And if we're just going to toss parts at the car and see what sticks, they're cheap and a very common issue on those motors. I would imagine they've already been changed at 225k.


I would be very surprised if a code reader had zero live data, usually it has the bare minimum mandated by ODBII standards. I would bet it has freeze frame at a minimum. Look at ST/LT fuel trims (short/long) on the data list for the freeze frame. The combined value of the two should be +/- 10%. So -5 ST and +3 LT, would be be -2 combined, you get the idea. As I said, my assumption if they're original would be leaking intake gaskets, causing a miss especially when cold. In the example above of "-2%" fuel trim, -2% indicated the ECU is taking away 2% of expected fuel requirement at that load/rpm. Vacuum leaks mean very high positive numbers, adding fuel to compensate for the air. High negative trims means the ECU is pulling fuel from the expected volume it should deliver.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N5ZGJ2M/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I love this little thing. ^

Had a similar vintage Taurus with p0300 a month or so ago. Vacuum leaks causing sky high fuel trims, causing misfires. Funny the ECU didn't bother flagging lean codes, but I digress. I bought that for $15 when amazon had a promo sale; and it gave me all the info I needed. Smoke machine confirmed intake manifold runner control valve seal on the intake was leaking. Sometimes I don't really need to drag out the modis/autel/pico whatever. Sometimes things are crazy and you need all 3 and pages of diagrams.

Bi-directional IMO generally starts at 800, not including the service reset stuff which as a stand alone tool without bi-directional is like 150/200ish. Manufacturer codes and data starts around the same $200. I used a launch CRP129 when I was first learning. Good unit, gets you on the manufacturer side, does ABS/SRS, and I think the new ones do parking brake, steering angle, oil resets, battery registration, etc. Graphing is poor, but usable for most DIY kinda problems. I haven't used the bigger launch products, but I would imagine their graphing is more akin to my autel 906. The littler stuff usually has mediocre graphing.


Check out what I linked and the CRP129. I think you'd be happier with the 129 simply because you want more detailed info from the car. The little code reader I listed generally has decoded mode $6 for all cars, a HUGE value. Not sure if the 129 has better coverage than mine did when I bought it, most of mode $6 was un-decoded and you needed the tables to figure out what data you were reading. No thanks. The 129 does get you in the manufacturer side, so that chevy should have data lines for each cylinder, current and history misfires counting in real time. Been a while since I used it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RK9GCK3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The amazon link has a video on the 129 a guy made, shows the kinda data you'd get. It's a newer GM truck, sounds like a diesel. An older GM will not have that much data, but still more than a code reader will give you on the generic OBDII side of things.
 
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tarmy

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When you changed the oil pressure sender, did you remove the intake manifold?

If you're loading up parts, bring intake gaskets. If they've never been changed, I suspect that's your issue. And if we're just going to toss parts at the car and see what sticks, they're cheap and a very common issue on those motors. I would imagine they've already been changed at 225k.


I would be very surprised if a code reader had zero live data, usually it has the bare minimum mandated by ODBII standards. I would bet it has freeze frame at a minimum. Look at ST/LT fuel trims (short/long) on the data list for the freeze frame. The combined value of the two should be +/- 10%. So -5 ST and +3 LT, would be be -2 combined, you get the idea. As I said, my assumption if they're original would be leaking intake gaskets, causing a miss especially when cold. In the example above of "-2%" fuel trim, -2% indicated the ECU is taking away 2% of expected fuel requirement at that load/rpm. Vacuum leaks mean very high positive numbers, adding fuel to compensate for the air. High negative trims means the ECU is pulling fuel from the expected volume it should deliver.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N5ZGJ2M/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I love this little thing. ^

Had a similar vintage Taurus with p0300 a month or so ago. Vacuum leaks causing sky high fuel trims, causing misfires. Funny the ECU didn't bother flagging lean codes, but I digress. I bought that for $15 when amazon had a promo sale; and it gave me all the info I needed. Smoke machine confirmed intake manifold runner control valve seal on the intake was leaking. Sometimes I don't really need to drag out the modis/autel/pico whatever. Sometimes things are crazy and you need all 3 and pages of diagrams.

Bi-directional IMO generally starts at 800, not including the service reset stuff which as a stand alone tool without bi-directional is like 150/200ish. Manufacturer codes and data starts around the same $200. I used a launch CRP129 when I was first learning. Good unit, gets you on the manufacturer side, does ABS/SRS, and I think the new ones do parking brake, steering angle, oil resets, battery registration, etc. Graphing is poor, but usable for most DIY kinda problems. I haven't used the bigger launch products, but I would imagine their graphing is more akin to my autel 906. The littler stuff usually has mediocre graphing.


Check out what I linked and the CRP129. I think you'd be happier with the 129 simply because you want more detailed info from the car. The little code reader I listed generally has decoded mode $6 for all cars, a HUGE value. Not sure if the 129 has better coverage than mine did when I bought it, most of mode $6 was un-decoded and you needed the tables to figure out what data you were reading. No thanks. The 129 does get you in the manufacturer side, so that chevy should have data lines for each cylinder, current and history misfires counting in real time. Been a while since I used it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RK9GCK3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The amazon link has a video on the 129 a guy made, shows the kinda data you'd get. It's a newer GM truck, sounds like a diesel. An older GM will not have that much data, but still more than a code reader will give you on the generic OBDII side of things.

Thank you for the post...I will follow up on your suggestions...

No on the manifold removal for the OPSU replace...and...no, the intake manifold has never been off!

I will bring those gaskets for insurance...

Thank you again for the time you took to post here...
 

seagull369

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You could try swapping coils, if your Chevy uses individual coil packs that is. Clear the codes, then see if the ECU pinpoints the misfire in a different cylinder. If it does, then you know that's your problem.
 

tvl

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Not to steal this thread, but I very much appreciate post #13 from 2ndGearRubber. I feel he has shared some very good information with some of the less knowledgeable folks on this forum. I'd like to see more information such as this.

Anyway, following is a snapshot of the "Fuel Trim Data" on both my 98 and 08 Expedition during a cruise down the interstate. Based on your comments above, I'm assuming zero values are "the preferred OR as near perfect as one can get". I'm also assuming negative values are better than positive values. However, I'm still not exactly sure by what you meant when you stated: "The combined value of the two should be +/- 10%"?

10% of what? Or, are you simply implying the combined value of the two should never be more than +10% or -10%?

1998 Expedition
Short Term Fuel Trim-Bank 1 …… -1.56 %
Long Term Fuel Trim-Bank 1 ….… -3.13 %
Short Term Fuel Trim-Bank 2……. -1.56 %
Long Term Fuel Trim-Bank 2 ….… -1.56 %

2008Expedition
Short Term Fuel Trim-Bank 1 …… -1.56 %
Long Term Fuel Trim-Bank 1 ……. -4.69 %
Short Term Fuel Trim-Bank 2 ……. 0.00 %
Long Term Fuel Trim-Bank 2 …….. 0.00 %
 
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2ndGearRubber

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Those are all listed as % values, your scan tool just isn't displaying the unit of measure. You just add them together.

98 expedition -

Total trim on bank 1 is -4.69%
bank 2 is -3.12%

2008 expedition -

bank 1 is -6.25%
bank 2 is 0%

------------------------------------

Theory of operation is:

On a fuel injected engine, there are 2 primary ways of detecting air being ingested by the manifold/engine. Mass air flow, and manifold absolute pressure. Either way, the engine knows approx. how many units of air it will be ingesting for a given rpm and engine load. Imagine a map, because that's what it is, of load% or airflow on the Y, and RPM on the X. Now, make that map a grid like an excel spreadsheet, and that's how your fuel injection system works. Y units of air, and rpm X, denotes a specified air-fuel ratio based on a variety of parameters. To achieve the desired AFR, solve AFR = air units/fuel units. As a general rule, unless it's wide open, 14.7/1 is what they're trying to run if they can. Emissions baby.



The engine uses this rough map to set the time the injectors are open, to spray a quantity of fuel at a given (or variable) pressure output. Fine adjustments are made to the fuel map via "fuel trims". 0% means the engine is adding/subtracting nothing, it's perfectly happy running the per-determined fuel numbers. Usually hovering +/- 3% is just part of keeping the engine running smoothly. Positive or negative isn't really relevant, both are a correction from a zero point. Imagine you're at point 0/0 on a 4 quadrant graph. Going up to X=0/Y=4, or down to x=0/Y=-4 is the same absolute value, same distance from zero. It's more a measure of how well the computer can control the fuel mixture relative to the factors it cannot control. Vacuum leaks, dirty injectors, biased sensors, etc. As far as the ECU is concerned, both large positive and negative trims are a concern. There's a problem effecting fuel control, so it sets the check engine light at a predetermined point when fuel trim is at "%whatever" over "time however-long".

The +/- 10% is a rough diagnostic rule. TYPICALLY if total trim is below +/- 10%, no check engine lights, normal driveability, no issues. If you like I'm more than happy to keep rambling about fuel trim strategies.
 

tvl

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If you like I'm more than happy to keep rambling about fuel trim strategies.

Thanks so very much 2ndGearRubber! You have explained things very, very well! Given the opportunity, I do believe you could teach most of us here quite a bit. Again, thanks for the great explanation!
 
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tarmy

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Those are all listed as % values, your scan tool just isn't displaying the unit of measure. You just add them together.

98 expedition -

Total trim on bank 1 is -4.69%
bank 2 is -3.12%

2008 expedition -

bank 1 is -6.25%
bank 2 is 0%

------------------------------------

Theory of operation is:

On a fuel injected engine, there are 2 primary ways of detecting air being ingested by the manifold/engine. Mass air flow, and manifold absolute pressure. Either way, the engine knows approx. how many units of air it will be ingesting for a given rpm and engine load. Imagine a map, because that's what it is, of load% or airflow on the Y, and RPM on the X. Now, make that map a grid like an excel spreadsheet, and that's how your fuel injection system works. Y units of air, and rpm X, denotes a specified air-fuel ratio based on a variety of parameters. To achieve the desired AFR, solve AFR = air units/fuel units. As a general rule, unless it's wide open, 14.7/1 is what they're trying to run if they can. Emissions baby.



The engine uses this rough map to set the time the injectors are open, to spray a quantity of fuel at a given (or variable) pressure output. Fine adjustments are made to the fuel map via "fuel trims". 0% means the engine is adding/subtracting nothing, it's perfectly happy running the per-determined fuel numbers. Usually hovering +/- 3% is just part of keeping the engine running smoothly. Positive or negative isn't really relevant, both are a correction from a zero point. Imagine you're at point 0/0 on a 4 quadrant graph. Going up to X=0/Y=4, or down to x=0/Y=-4 is the same absolute value, same distance from zero. It's more a measure of how well the computer can control the fuel mixture relative to the factors it cannot control. Vacuum leaks, dirty injectors, biased sensors, etc. As far as the ECU is concerned, both large positive and negative trims are a concern. There's a problem effecting fuel control, so it sets the check engine light at a predetermined point when fuel trim is at "%whatever" over "time however-long".

The +/- 10% is a rough diagnostic rule. TYPICALLY if total trim is below +/- 10%, no check engine lights, normal driveability, no issues. If you like I'm more than happy to keep rambling about fuel trim strategies.

This is MY THREAD DAMNIT!

You keep on rambling all you want...I am busy learning something here!:beer:
 

Greg85mcss

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The mk808 will let you monitor misses on individual cylinders. It really depends if the car supports it. I’m not particularly familiar with the ls engines but I’d want to see if any were missing more than others and under what conditions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

vssjim

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On the older LS engines if it missfires cold only check for intake gasket leaks and Fel Pro makes improved gaskets. Also look in the cooling system bottle to make sure it's full and if not may need a CO fluid tester for exhaust air in the cooling system ie head gasket etc.
 
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tarmy

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Well, bought the Autel MK808...got the thing hooked up...figured out that cylinders 2 & 6 were misfiring...

New wires...same pattern. Went and got two new coil packs...problem GONE!

Flying back home with a happy dad and son with a functioning truck...

That scan tool is awesome...we went thru everything it could scan and checked a bunch of other small issues. Without a tool to watch each cylinder and look at the history of the issue...no way we get it fixed that fast or cheap.

Thank you very much for those that posted info and comments.

Big thanks to 2ndGearRubber...for great very informative posts...:beer:
 
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