auto body welding

[a52-830]

i have a stick welder i got years ago for, well, i dont really remember why. all i remember is that i hated using it. i never got the hang of it, and my welds always sucked.

i remember doing OK in shop class in HS with the torch, but that was always with new stock.

now i am restoring a car. i need to do some light welding. i dug out the stick welder, and have practiced with it a bit. if anything, it is worse than i remember.

so, i have cut out some fender parts, and gotten replacement panels. i also need to replace a body mount tower, which will require me to weld body panel thickness metal to the frame.

what kind of welder should i be looking at, either generally or specifically? i have a "Lincoln Electric K2185-1 Handy MIG Welder" in my amazon cart (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QFNZ74/?tag=atomicindus08-20). while this includes the stuff to use gas, do i need to? i have seen reference about using a rig like this without, but details are sparse. i dont mind spending something extra for that kind of flexibility, but if i will never need gas . . . .

any guidance would be appreciated.

thanx.

stev

 

[Know Wosad]

If you want to repair body panels and not have them re-cancer, or warp badly when welding, you need a MIG, .023 wire and C25 gas.You'll want spot nozzles and watch videos-take it slow. Don't put much heat in the panel.
I remember the days of stick and 6013. You sure do learn to start an arc like a pro...that's about all.
TIG is ideal but it takes a real wallet to set that all up.

 

[Know Wosad]

BTW. That welder is a P.O.S.
Look for a used 140 Lincoln and preferably the "C" type---fully variable as opposes to the "tapped" with 5 determined settings.
If blue is your color Miller has good small 110 Migs too. Just as good as the Lincolns.So does Hobart.

 

[454ragtop]

might look at this http://worcester.craigslist.org/tls/5601381898.html

 

[Know Wosad]

That 180 is tapped but it'll still work plus you can do heavier stuff if you need-want to.
All you'll need is a rental bottle and a roll of 023-025 wire.You can evenn run straight CO2 if you wallet needs a break but plan on C25 down the road.

Make sure he has a receipt in case you ever need repair. Good find. Go grab it.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I have had good success with a Hobart Handler 187 with .023 and up to .030 wire. But the .030 is harder. I use gas. I also use a wet rag to help cool the metal between welds and try not to weld more than an inch worth of spot welds at a time to prevent warping. I use multiple spot welds over and over rather than trying to make a bead. I also keep going back and forth to opposite sides to further prevent overheating and warping.

I am not a pro but I have had both failures and successes. The failures were while learning. I would recommend getting an old hood or fender to practice on and cut a hole in it to patch.

 

[hogdaddy]

Oxygen/Acetylene welding (gas welding) is an excellent method and the welds can be planished easier than a hardened mig weld.
It takes practice but well worth it IMHO.

 

[zmotorsports]

Oxygen/Acetylene welding (gas welding) is an excellent method and the welds can be planished easier than a hardened mig weld.
It takes practice but well worth it IMHO.

^^This. I learned doing body work many years ago on the farm by gas welding. It was not ideal but a hell of a lot better than SMAW that's for sure.

I prefer TIG (GTAW) for body panels mainly because the heat and small arc zone can be so easily controlled but I have used MIG (GMAW) on some occasions and can also be very effective as long as you don't do too much welding at one time.

TIG welds are much, much more friendly to knocking down and hammer/dolly work on than the harder MIG welds so that may be something to keep in mind. If rosette welding a panel back in the MIG would work fine with something like .023" wire and C25 gas but in the middle of a panel such as sectioning in a rust spot or anything involved with the middle of a panel, that is where the TIG really shines and allows you to get to it quickly and hammer/dolly it to flatten it out and control the warpage.

Lots of practice more than which machine to use to be honest. If you want to see someone really work magic on body panels check out either MP&C's thread or HD FLHX, both seem to have a good grasp on welding and hammering panels.

Mike.

 

[xbeatles4x]

Out of curiosity, @know Wosad, why do you suggest .023 wire as opposed to .30? I am asking because I just picked up a welder of my own, hobart handler 140 with a 25argon/75co2 bottle, and I bought a roll of .30. I haven't tried to use any of it yet and will be working with 18 gauge sheet metal. Any particular reason to step it down or was that just a personal preference thing?

 

[zmotorsports]

Out of curiosity, @know Wosad, why do you suggest .023 wire as opposed to .30? I am asking because I just picked up a welder of my own, hobart handler 140 with a 25argon/75co2 bottle, and I bought a roll of .30. I haven't tried to use any of it yet and will be working with 18 gauge sheet metal. Any particular reason to step it down or was that just a personal preference thing?

I am not who you addressed the question to but I will give my .02 cents worth.

I have used .030" solid wire on auto body sheet metal and have had ok results so will still use it in a situation where 1, I am going to MIG weld vs. TIG due to a small job and too lazy to switch out for the thinner wire or 2, because I may be rosette welding vs. **** or flange welding.

I still prefer to TIG weld my body panels but IF I decide to MIG and have more than a couple welds I switch over to the .023" solid wire for the main reason is that it takes less current to melt the wire therefore less heat going into the panel, ie. less chance of warpage and smaller weld profile.

Mike.

 

[Grinding- wheel]

I would completely avoid that handy mig! 70 amps if I'm reading the add correctly. 70 amps is no where near what you need. You are only looking at about 16g steel no where near 1/8 inch. You will most likely be disappointed. If you want a 115v machine look at Lincoln Power mig 140 / Miller 141 / Hobart Handler 140. I would highly suggest avoiding Lincolns Home Depot / Lowes Lincoln mig welders! I know a few people who are happy with them and more that are not. The Hobart is going to be the cheaper one but is going to have tapped voltage. Not an issue adjust wire feed speed and your travel speed. However you may want to look into the 230v or 230/115v machines. They have a much greater capacity. Unless you don't have access to 230v or are only planning to weld thin stuff such as auto body. You are going to read all over the internet "my 115v bla bla mig welds 1/4 inch all day long." Um nope its not going to be a sound weld with any kind of penetration. Quality 115v migs tap out at about 1/8 inch realistically and that's running the mig warp speed. Don't always trust what a manufacture says a machine will weld.

 

[BDBLK2K3]

Hobart 210 Im very satisfied with mine , I' m not a welder , it make my weld look a lot better .

Blains farm and fleet has it for $799.99 ,I think my shipping was about $24 .

 

[PCO6]

Oxygen/Acetylene welding (gas welding) is an excellent method and the welds can be planished easier than a hardened mig weld.
It takes practice but well worth it IMHO.

I learned how to hammer weld from a panel beater. It's a great method once you get the hang of it. He stressed that that the benefit of this method is that you can run the panel through an English wheel after you have finished your weld. You can't do that if you have used any kind of filler rod. Not only will it not work it will destroy the anvils.

 

[454ragtop]

A little more of a ride, but might be worth it http://southcoast.craigslist.org/tls/5674796698.html

 

[a52-830]

A little more of a ride, but might be worth it http://southcoast.craigslist.org/tls/5674796698.html

thanx for the ads. while there are things i feel comfortable buying used, i am not sure a welder is one of them. if it were from the guy down the street, and i knew how he kept his stuff, sure, but i look at something like this second ad, and i admit i am leery of getting it. i dont think i have sufficient knowledge to look at something like that and make an intelligent decision about whether it is safe, let alone a reasonable deal.

on the other hand, the first one is safer, but a bit more. the ad sez the price is firm, but the ad is also 2 months old. . . . . .

i appreciate all the opinions. "Know Wosad" mentioned a "rental bottle" of gas. i was of the impression that only large bottles were rented. i dont think i am going to be going through enough to warrant that. assuming i bought a small bottle, how much will i have to spend to fill it with C25? how much are the bottles? i have seen them somewhere, but i can't think of where.

it is tuff getting old, but i suppose it beats the alternative . . . .

 

[motofool33]

thanx for the ads. while there are things i feel comfortable buying used, i am not sure a welder is one of them. if it were from the guy down the street, and i knew how he kept his stuff, sure, but i look at something like this second ad, and i admit i am leery of getting it. i dont think i have sufficient knowledge to look at something like that and make an intelligent decision about whether it is safe, let alone a reasonable deal.

on the other hand, the first one is safer, but a bit more. the ad sez the price is firm, but the ad is also 2 months old. . . . . .

i appreciate all the opinions. "Know Wosad" mentioned a "rental bottle" of gas. i was of the impression that only large bottles were rented. i dont think i am going to be going through enough to warrant that. assuming i bought a small bottle, how much will i have to spend to fill it with C25? how much are the bottles? i have seen them somewhere, but i can't think of where.

it is tuff getting old, but i suppose it beats the alternative . . . .

anything taller then 3ft can be rented, about 90-100$ per year and the small bottles about 40-60$ to fill or you can buy a full size like 88cu at a welding supply used but within its hydro test (every 10 years) for about 200$ if you buy brand new maybe 365$ish for the bottle usually first fill is free when you do that.


if you can can swing it go for a 180-200amp welder, if the price is too much get atleast 140.

dont bother with flux core, stay with gas and small wire .023

 

[Reducto]

Hobart 210 Im very satisfied with mine , I' m not a welder , it make my weld look a lot better .

Blains farm and fleet has it for $799.99 ,I think my shipping was about $24 .

Went the exact same route with the same place.

I used the.023 wire and it worked great. I was able to do rockers and cab corners on an old pickup with little trouble. Practice on some random pieces of the same thickness you will be welding beforehand to get the feel of it.

Body panels have barely any heat capacity so you will have to jump around while welding or weld and then wait to avoid warping.