Automotive Oscilloscope

[Badasssapper67]

Been looking to get an oscilloscope for diagnosing car sensors and other things. It wont be used to make money so spending thousands for a color Fluke is out of the question.
It seems logical that scopes that work with a laptop or tablet would give the most features for the lowest price but I don't have any experience with them.
Does anyone here have personal experience with ANY SCOPE?
Good, bad, or other?
From all the research I've done Im thinking, 20mz, 4 channel, 50MS/s. Sound about right for mechanic work?
Advice is appreciated.

 

[jallyn]

You know I have an old oscilloscope but just use a good multi-meter for automotive electrical work (and home, and industrial power and controls). I do want to buy a cheap oscilloscope kit just for the fun of it and to say I soldered/built my own oscilloscope. that can be the cheapest option... from fleabay.

 

[texasprd]

You can get a used SnapOn VantagePro or Modis (which also has scan-tool capability) on eBay. You may need shielded test leads for the VantagePro (I believe the Modis leads are shielded - I haven't tried mine yet for scoping). The great thing about the Snapon platforms is the pre-sets for scope settings and the connector pin-out diagrams and component explanations.

Look on aeswave.com for other possibilities, or accessories for the SnapOn platforms above. Aes has the Pico computer-based systems, also.

OTCs Genesys (sp?) system is also a possibility, but there are different flavors of it and you want to avoid the really old ones. I think Actron used to make a DIYer scope, but I don't know if its still available.

In any case, get at least a 2-channel scope, because if you get decent at this, you will on occasion need to look at 2 signals in relationship to each other.

What year/years and models of vehicle are you maintaining?

One of the best things I did when I got interested in looking at sensor/actuator signals was to buy a book from Interro called the "Wave Form Guide". Interro is now Omitech, and Omitech may have been bought, but if you can find that book it is a big help

 

[Schurkey]

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Snap-On-Counselor-oscilloscopes-A-Primer-/10000000001691487/g.html

 

[kd3pc]

Pico scope is solid and auto "friendly", but you will need a laptop to go with it. There are many other PC/device based scopes, and I have started using the JYE Tech scopes in my Hybrid class, both to show simple scopes and that you can actually use these small, inexpensive ($38USD) for the DSO 138 scope. Add a few eBay inductive probes and all set.

The choice comes down to just what you might need the scope for. We already used mine to look at ABS encoder waves, etc.

 

[Carguy99]

Pico scope is solid and auto "friendly", but you will need a laptop to go with it. There are many other PC/device based scopes, and I have started using the JYE Tech scopes in my Hybrid class, both to show simple scopes and that you can actually use these small, inexpensive ($38USD) for the DSO 138 scope. Add a few eBay inductive probes and all set.

The choice comes down to just what you might need the scope for. We already used mine to look at ABS encoder waves, etc.

agree^^^ the older snappy vantage can be picked up very cheaply. not a true scope but for simple stuff works.
the pico is a solid professional scope. a good one will cost you. not something i would buy used unless i could test it first.

 

[Carguy99]

Been looking to get an oscilloscope for diagnosing car sensors and other things. It wont be used to make money so spending thousands for a color Fluke is out of the question.
It seems logical that scopes that work with a laptop or tablet would give the most features for the lowest price but I don't have any experience with them.
Does anyone here have personal experience with ANY SCOPE?
Good, bad, or other?
From all the research I've done Im thinking, 20mz, 4 channel, 50MS/s. Sound about right for mechanic work?
Advice is appreciated.

a two channel is fine for all but the most advanced stuff. I have one, only once have i need to use more than two channels.

 

[KMinAF]

It used to be you could find the Sun Analyzers a dime a dozen now they are just as hard to find as someone who knows how to use them.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

If you have OBDII, you don't need a scope most of the time.

 

[kd3pc]

If you have OBDII, you don't need a scope most of the time.

for a lot of things you are right, but "seeing" waveforms and timing of them is critical in ignition, hybrid and the newer braking systems. And for us "old guys" cascade or parade of ignition pulses is so great to see where the failure is...

Scanners to get the detail, especially subcodes, are very pricey and are costly to keep updated. Dealers not an issue, independent shop or DIYers can not afford a $10K solution. Verus is slow to boot, still based on WinXP and even used is $$, then add octopus and inductive leads...

best to all

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

At the same time, a phone and a $13 bit of hardware will let you graph your major engine sensors outputs.

 

[Badasssapper67]

If you have OBDII, you don't need a scope most of the time.

I have a good obdII reader. My Dodge Durango awd select knob is stuck in awd. (thank goodness not 4x4 high or low) Standard practice is to replace the switch, then the knob in the dash, then just give up and drive around in awd.

It's a common problem with these Durangos. Turns out after lots of miles and shaking around it could be the pins in the connector. With a scope I could test the switch, the knob, etc and pinpoint where the problem is

This is great advice guys.....

 

[theoldwizard1]

PicoScope is the "industry standard" these days for stand alone 'scopes. 12 bit A to D, 20 MHz bandwidth, 400 MS/sec and 250 Msample storage. I like the fact that it works with a laptop so you can have as large a display as you want. Downside is more cabling and 2 instruments that can be dropped and damaged. You really should work with a cart and a 10' USB cable.

Having said that, I think it is overpriced. Pico really needs to upgrade their hardware.

For less money you can get a "real" 4 channel scope from Rigol. DS1054Z - 50MHz, 1Gs/sec, 12 Mpoint storage for <$400 ! Biggest downside is it requires AC power.

 

[James-W]

It used to be that the Sun scope was VERY popular with automotive shops, but I wasn't even aware scopes were used all that much anymore. I had just thought since computers were an integral part of the vehicles these days, a laptop was used to interface with the vehicle computer in order to troubleshoot the problem. But I am not a mechanic so I am only guessing on that, it's just what I had thought.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Sun scopes (if I recall correctly) were for high voltage analysis of the ignition system. That functionality is not frequently needed these days especially with coil-on-plug.

Watch some of South Main Auto videos on YouTube. A really good diagnostician (like Eric O.) has a very strong background in basic electronics.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

they would look at alternator wave forms and other low power stuff just as well.

I have a good obdII reader. My Dodge Durango awd select knob is stuck in awd. (thank goodness not 4x4 high or low) Standard practice is to replace the switch, then the knob in the dash, then just give up and drive around in awd.

It's a common problem with these Durangos. Turns out after lots of miles and shaking around it could be the pins in the connector. With a scope I could test the switch, the knob, etc and pinpoint where the problem is

switches and connectors are usually testable with a $20 multimeter.
So is the electronic imitation range select lever on the side of the transfer case, but you can take that off and use a pliers.

 

[MDK22]

Used snap-On Modis. Best cheap scope. If you are strictly using it for a scope an outdated one can normally be found cheap. It also normally can pull generic obdII as well regardless.

Pico is great but, it is not that rugged if it falls your more then likely sol. Modis is a fair bit more resilient. replacement parts are easily found and you can also store and save reference information. Plus it runs windows ce so you can normally get other windows apps to run on it and interfacing with networks and printing.

Biggest cf card i think it can take is 32gb.

 

[gungatim]

At the same time, a phone and a $13 bit of hardware will let you graph your major engine sensors outputs.

how's that work exactly, on say a '79 Monte Carlo?

I think the point here is that there are lots of cars out there that do not have the sophisticated generic error codes. additionally, many codes give no real meaning to the diagnosis. an intermittent P0151 isn't going to tell you whether it's a bad sensor, a bad PCM, a loose connector, or a short to ground somewhere in the wiring system. the guy with the elm327 and smart phone goes out and buys a new sensor and throws the part at the problem. when it doesn't fix it, now what? someone who knows how to actually use a scope can get in there and find the problem in just a few minutes instead of relying on a pre-programmed generic code that only points you in a direction.

i'll give another example, just did a mopar trans with a code for the TSS. owner replaced the sensor, guess what, still not shifting right. turns out it threw the code not because of a bad sensor but because the governor solenoid was stuck...he wasted $75...graphing the output would have showed the sensor was working properly, but the PCM expected a different reading than it was getting setting the code and misleading the owner to the root cause.

to the OP: I bought this about a month ago for $81. ($11 for the electronic charger, and $70 for the Snap-On counselor II scope). mounted the scope on the charger cart after cutting off the top where the printer was (who needs a printer for a battery diagnostic charger?)works well on the numerous non-OBD vehicles I own as well as everyone with a classic/muscle/hot rod when they find out I have it...if you can find one, make sure it comes with all the cables. the manual is available online if needed.

 

[Sommech7498]

I just got the scope from aeswave. 300 from Amazon for the scope with low amp probe, ignition probe, cop paddle probe and the standard probes with alligator clips as well.
Pros of this unit are...
It's portable
Comes with all the probes
Cheap

Cons...
No playback like the Pico scope
Values are hard to tell
Only comes in single channel
Very basic compared to the Pico or snap on
All the leads are micro bnc so they need an adapter to be used with another scope

If you can spend the money I would get the Pico kit
The 2 Chanel with the kit is about 1000 on there site. Having the second channel alone would be worth the upgrade and the Pico has many more features than other basic scopes.

 

[APEowner]

A scope and the knowledge to use it is definitely a useful tool to have in ones arsenal regardless of the age of vehicle you're working on. In the last couple of months I've used one to diagnose a bad injector driver module in a 7.3L Powerstroke, a bad condenser on a mid 70s formula ford and a bad MSD box in a Dyno cell hooked to an injected SBC with an AEM ECU. I've got several of the Rigol scopes as well as one of the portable Flukes. The Rigol is the better scope. It's easier to use, triggers more reliably, has more features and surprisingly, is less susceptible to EMI. The lack of battery power and the fact that it's not ruggediesed are its only shortcomings. However, it's so cheap that if we do ever manage to destroy one we're still money ahead compared to a Fluke.