AWG and a snowblower. How necessary is it?

[tearapin]

My neighbor has an electric snowblower. It says it is 13 amps. Using the chart in the manual it says for a 75 foot run he needs a 12 AWG cord. He has been using a 16 AWG for years.

So you can probably guess that I now have a blower where the chart in the manual calls for 12 AWG. I am wondering if it is really needed. Yes I know the chart is there for a reason What say you corded snow blower users?

 

[The Cobbler]

for longevity, I would use at least a 14g. cord . undersized cords are not good for stuff .

 

[mike93lx]

The cord is causing excessive voltage drop and it is definitely not helping the motor.

At those distances, I would use nothing but a 100' 12 gauge cord.

 

[micromind]

Most of those online charts are worthless, some even worse than worthless. That's why so many of them disagree.

Basically, if it's amps vs. feet. Just because the label says 13 amps doesn't mean that it can handle any 13 amp load. It means that going over will likely cause it to overheat.

Choosing an AWG is more of an art than a science, to get it right, you need to know what type of load it is, the length of the wire (from the panel to the outlet figures in too) and what the lowest voltage the load will tolerate.

For example, a universal motor (Skilsaw) will handle way more voltage drop than a table saw with an induction motor.

There are very few hard-and-fast rules.

 

[tearapin]

Most of those online charts are worthless, some even worse than worthless. That's why so many of them disagree.

Basically, if it's amps vs. feet. Just because the label says 13 amps doesn't mean that it can handle any 13 amp load. It means that going over will likely cause it to overheat.

Choosing an AWG is more of an art than a science, to get it right, you need to know what type of load it is, the length of the wire (from the panel to the outlet figures in too) and what the lowest voltage the load will tolerate.

For example, a universal motor (Skilsaw) will handle way more voltage drop than a table saw with an induction motor.

There are very few hard-and-fast rules.

Hmm that makes it a difficult task to know what cord to use or buy. They do not give those specs (lowest voltage tolerated).

 

[BombShelter]

I just had a little one for clearing off the ice rink and I had one too many cords, I blew the motor last winter. I tend to buy the big cords, my small guage is used for Christmas Lights only.

 

[micromind]

Hmm that makes it a difficult task to know what cord to use or buy. They do not give those specs (lowest voltage tolerated).

Generally speaking, if the voltage drop is less than 10%, it won't hurt.

For example, let's use a 100' cord and a 12 amp load. This does not include motor starting current, just a constant load.

The resistance of #16 wire is about 5Ω per 1000'. The 100' cord becomes 200' because the current travels to the load and back. 5ΩX.2=1Ω

1Ω at 12 amps is 12 volts of drop. Maybe acceptable, likely not.

Now #14. 3.2Ω per 1000' .64Ω at 12 amps would be 7.7 volts drop. This would be ok except for an induction motor that starts under load.

#12. 2Ω per 1000' .4Ω at 12 amps would be 4.8 volts drop. This would be ok for most stuff.

Given the above, you can see why the 13 amp rating of a 100' #16 cord is not good.

 

[tearapin]

Generally speaking, if the voltage drop is less than 10%, it won't hurt.

For example, let's use a 100' cord and a 12 amp load. This does not include motor starting current, just a constant load.

The resistance of #16 wire is about 5Ω per 1000'. The 100' cord becomes 200' because the current travels to the load and back. 5ΩX.2=1Ω

1Ω at 12 amps is 12 volts of drop. Maybe acceptable, likely not.

Now #14. 3.2Ω per 1000' .64Ω at 12 amps would be 7.7 volts drop. This would be ok except for an induction motor that starts under load.

#12. 2Ω per 1000' .4Ω at 12 amps would be 4.8 volts drop. This would be ok for most stuff.

Given the above, you can see why the 13 amp rating of a 100' #16 cord is not good.

So 14 or 12 AWG at 75 feet is my key to happiness with a 13 amp motor?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Most of those online charts are worthless, some even worse than worthless. That's why so many of them disagree.

Basically, if it's amps vs. feet. Just because the label says 13 amps doesn't mean that it can handle any 13 amp load. It means that going over will likely cause it to overheat.

Choosing an AWG is more of an art than a science, to get it right, you need to know what type of load it is, the length of the wire (from the panel to the outlet figures in too) and what the lowest voltage the load will tolerate.

For example, a universal motor (Skilsaw) will handle way more voltage drop than a table saw with an induction motor.

There are very few hard-and-fast rules.

yes, but at the end of the cord, volts X amps = power. and power is what moves snow. universal motors aren't the most efficient things to start with so why starve them?

I got a 12ga 100' ultraflex cord when I was using a corded blower, and I wouldn't have wanted to starve it of any voltage. it needed all the help it could get!

 

[nadogail]

When sizing conductors bigger is generally better, but then there are other considerations such as Budget, Weight, Availability and Ease of Handling.

If it isn't broken, why are we trying to fix it?

I am not personally acquainted, AFAIK, with anyone that uses a Snow Blower.

 

[mobiledynamics]

How long is the outlet relative to how far you plan to use it. Winters are getting milder here everyear. What is the -ambient temp- you expect if you're using it. Re: to the temp question posted, I recommend a cord of SEOW jacket....nice and flexible in the cold temps. It's worth seeking IMO

 

[Wrench97]

Do you have a way to check the actual amp draw?
I would suspect it's 13 amps only under high load.

 

[garfunkle24]

Hmm that makes it a difficult task to know what cord to use or buy.

Ah yes, that's quite the conundrum. If the only the manufacturer would provide that info for the end user. Perhaps in some kind of "chart" format.

Prolly better to take an anecdotal opinion from your neighbour or ask some random people on the internet.

 

[P0234]

All this wiring **** is over the top safety nanny worst case. I used a crappy 16awg with my electric toro for years. Cord never got close to being warm.

 

[micromind]

So 14 or 12 AWG at 75 feet is my key to happiness with a 13 amp motor?

Either one will work!

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Do you have a way to check the actual amp draw?
I would suspect it's 13 amps only under high load.

There's nothing in the motor that prevents it from pulling more than 13A. I was able to keep my feeds and speeds just right and could smell the insulation overheating while still throwing a good distance. I'd be surprised if one didn't REGULARLY hit 15-20A when you whack a corded electric into a snow bank.

All this wiring **** is over the top safety nanny worst case. I used a crappy 16awg with my electric toro for years. Cord never got close to being warm.

the goal isn't to avoid wasting energy in the cord (if you've ever plugged a 12A space heater into a coiled up 16ga cord and turned it on, you can DEFINITELY measure the heat rise), it's about delivering it to the point of use.

 

[tearapin]

All this wiring **** is over the top safety nanny worst case. I used a crappy 16awg with my electric toro for years. Cord never got close to being warm.

Do you know what the amp draw is of your blower?

 

[dnschmidt]

The cord never got close to being warm BECAUSE IT'S A SNOW BLOWER. One doesn't use a snow blower here in Phoenix when it's 120F. Well in truth one simply never needs a snow blower in Phoenix anytime. But, the fact that it's freezing or below enables you to get away with it. From the Physics point of view cold increases the current carrying capacity of any wire.

 

[P0234]

Do you know what the amp draw is of your blower?

It was a Toro Powercurve 1800, 15 amps.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Do you know what the amp draw is of your blower?

It was a Toro Powercurve 1800, 15 amps.

right but that's a NOMINAL 15 amps. it ain't 15 amps when it's sitting there spinning in free air, and it's maybe even MORE than 15 amps if you slam it into EOD slush and it starts slowing way down. this ain't a well pump or an air compressor. the load is all over the place.

 

[P0234]

right but that's a NOMINAL 15 amps. it ain't 15 amps when it's sitting there spinning in free air, and it's maybe even MORE than 15 amps if you slam it into EOD slush and it starts slowing way down. this ain't a well pump or an air compressor. the load is all over the place.

Exactly, which is why a 16ga cord works great.

 

[May Pop]

If the cord gets hot that’s a benefit melting the snow?

 

[BombShelter]

Not really nanny-state to be careful with cord size, I'm not an amp expert but undersize wiring scares me. Sure in most cases nothing will happen but smart people will look for the outliers, especially people that use extension cords everyday. For us working with big extension cords, it's a no-brainer to protect the equipment.

 

[GlugGlug]

I've heard you can use a push lawnmower to blow snow, as long as you don't fall behind.

 

[jobo1004]

This is what I've been using with my electric snowblower. Granted it was half the price when I bought it 10 years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KY03FC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Rinspeed]

I would never even buy anything other than a 12 AWG extension cord.

 

[kngelv]

All this wiring **** is over the top safety nanny worst case. I used a crappy 16awg with my electric toro for years. Cord never got close to being warm.

Hopefully you have the fire department on speed dial.

James

 

[P0234]

Hopefully you have the fire department on speed dial.

James

I dial 9 and 1 before I start, then I can just run back and dial the 1 while the cord catches my snow on fire.

 

[jonshonda]

I have an older craftsman drill press in my shed which is roughly 75' away from the house, and the shed has no power (I know the GJ gods are frowning, I should start a go fund me) so I run an extension cord from the house. There is a very notable difference in power from a 14ga to a 12ga extension cord at those distances. Short runs don't matter nearly as much, but resistance is real.