Back stab

[sberry]

Just had a call for a failed one, left an open neutral. There were about 20 of those connections in a round about way before it got to the bathroom where they use a hair dryer. I actually don't mind mobile home calls, the wiring is very predictable depending on year of construction and most problems are really very simple, makes a guy look like a fricken genius.
I wish I had 3 or 4 a day, can carry all the tools in a pocket, don't need much for parts.

 

[nh_yota]

From what I've seen they usually fail because of repeated expansion/contraction of the connection due to temperature swings, such as when they are located in an exterior wall or they are on a heavily loaded circuit.

 

[tyme2par4]

My entire house was wired with them. Built in the 70's. I either replaced, or at least rewired almost every outlet in the house over the last 2 years.

 

[OH_Varmntr]

My house is entirely back stabs, except for what I have installed with remodeling.

I just replaced my first back stab last night due to a failure in that it would no longer hold a lamp cord in place. It would literally fall out of the receptacle.

 

[b-boy]

I have a lot in my house. I've replaced a bunch, but whoever put them in left no slack in the wire. It's been a real pain to fix them.

Last one I did had a neutral wire that was just hanging there. I'm not sure how the outlet was even working.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

Don"t have any back stabs, but do have aluminum wiring.
Am in the process of using the new CPSC approved connectors to pigtail the Al to Cu on all the plugs and switches in the house. Room addition and garage are both wire with copper. Fairly easy to do except I might need to change out some boxes for deeper ones so the new connectors and pigtails fit.

 

[Bolson32]

How are the old backstabs different than the ones you see in most GFCI outlets? Is it because they're screw tightened?

 

[Milton Shaw]

The old back stabs were just a bent piece of metal that was supposed to have a springing action that kept the metal in contact with the wire. The problem was the contact point was just the edge of the metal and over time the current eats it away, leaving a loose wire and an arc.. They are probably the reason the arc-fault breakers are required now.

 

[alfredeneuman]

How are the old backstabs different than the ones you see in most GFCI outlets? Is it because they're screw tightened?

The GFI isn't a backstab, but a backwire.

Backwire uses a metal plate that has a screw to tighten it.
Backstab uses just spring pressure on a tiny surface area.

 

[sberry]

This circuit was loaded, some old lights and at the end was the bathroom recept. He has a chance to run a new wire, I would run a wire just for the bathroom recept and the rest of it would probably work fine. I got it all working again, would have taken a day to rewire all the stuff on it to the side plates and pigtails.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Yet another thing not allowed in Omaha for many,many years.
Plugs/switches have to be tailed out to pass a rough in inspection.

 

[larry4406]

New home construction and our electricians use the back stabs much to my displeasure. Thursday they had to troubleshoot one of my houses due to hot/ground reversed. Found a bad neutral connection on one of the devices in the daisy chain. I used this example to bust his balls and told him to start using the screw terminals; he just laughed.

 

[mustang68408]

New home construction and our electricians use the back stabs much to my displeasure. Thursday they had to troubleshoot one of my houses due to hot/ground reversed. Found a bad neutral connection on one of the devices in the daisy chain. I used this example to bust his balls and told him to start using the screw terminals; he just laughed.

Just moved into our house last year and found the same thing. All in the name of more efficiency the time it takes to curl a terminal connection x how many outlets in a home x homes in a neighborhood adds up.

Needless to say, I have replaced all toggles and went with Legrand panels, with terminal connections. I am also pulling the outlets out and switching from backstab to terminal connections, with AFCI breakers and how touchy they are I don't want a loose connection to trip one in the future.

 

[Bad Habit]

Yep, bought a ~15 yo manufactured home (basically a double wide) back in late spring. Got our first snow and plugged in the heat trace on the roof. Next am when I turned on the light in the bathroom, noticed the receptacle next to it was warm. Turns out they wired 1 GFI outlet and then daisy chained all the bathroom and exterior outlets off of it. The "warm" one was feeding one of the exterior outlets that I had the heat trace on. The backstab was loose and cooked the outlet. Luckily I noticed this when i did as we only go up there about every 2 weeks. In the process of changing all outlets/switches now and making sure to use the hardwire terminals

 

[bwringer]

Aaaargh, I hate lazy backstabbing SOBs...

I've replaced just about every outlet and switch in my house thanks to this stupid halfassery.

A few weeks ago, one of my neighbors said, "hey, my deck light suddenly stopped working." And when I started investigating, I noticed his TV stuff was plugged into a power strip stretched over to a different outlet... sure enough, that backstabbed outlet in his living room had failed, leaving the light at the end of the chain without power.

We ended up replacing something like eight failed or soon to fail backstabbed outlets and three or four switches.

 

[larry4406]

Every outlet in my current home was back stabbed. When I changed them from beige to white I used the terminals.

 

[kbuhagiar]

As an outsider looking in, the issue of back-stab dependability begs the question:

If the problem is so bad and prone to failure (and apparently it is), how is it that this method has been allowed to proliferate to this extent?

One would think that the powers behind the NEC would have stepped in by now to provide some regulation...or have they and I am just unaware of it?

Thanks!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

As an outsider looking in, the issue of back-stab dependability begs the question:

If the problem is so bad and prone to failure (and apparently it is), how is it that this method has been allowed to proliferate to this extent?

One would think that the powers behind the NEC would have stepped in by now to provide some regulation...or have they and I am just unaware of it?

Thanks!

Too many people with money have too much pull when it comes to writing the NEC.
Local codes in places like Omaha black balled backstabbing outlets and or using the screws on plugs/switches as junction point for splicing wires long ago.

 

[sberry]

I would have thought there may have been some move to get rid of this too. If I recall I have seen some special order for mfg housing for 12 wire? One or 2 of these wouldn't be so bad but this circuit must have had a dozen devices in series on it. Just a matter of odds with so many connections. In and out of switches used as connectors, litererally dozens of junctions in series using the devices on a single circuit.
It's just a habit to pigtail, probably part of the reason we don't have problems with the cheap recepts. I rarely use the screws to feed beyond except on occasion it's gfci or we use a device with clamp connects. Those can be good for old work in old boxes.

 

[Norcal]

There is a difference in older receptacles made 40 or 50 years ago that either had backstab provisions, or were backstab only and what is made today, the brass strip that retains the wire was much wider then they are today. A device that uses a pressure plate to retain the conductors is far superior to backstab receptacles but if you live in a trailer, or tract home, everything is low bidder and the only the lowest cost products will be used, but UL took the ability to backstab 12 AWG & larger away in the late 1990's they only accept 14 AWG now.

 

[mrpizza]

When I wired my house myself, every single outlet and switch got pigtailed and the connections wrapped on the screws. No backstab for me!

 

[Radix2]

New home construction and our electricians use the back stabs much to my displeasure. Thursday they had to troubleshoot one of my houses due to hot/ground reversed. Found a bad neutral connection on one of the devices in the daisy chain. I used this example to bust his balls and told him to start using the screw terminals; he just laughed.

Just moved into our house last year and found the same thing. All in the name of more efficiency the time it takes to curl a terminal connection x how many outlets in a home x homes in a neighborhood adds up.

Needless to say, I have replaced all toggles and went with Legrand panels, with terminal connections. I am also pulling the outlets out and switching from backstab to terminal connections, with AFCI breakers and how touchy they are I don't want a loose connection to trip one in the future.

As pointed out above - new outlets are only backstabable on 14ga wire. Are your electricians running outlets with 14?

The legit contractors here stick with 12ga/20a for outlets, 14ga/15a for lights...and yep they like to backstab the light switches..

 

[PelicanPines]

Had a regular switch used for the low voltage on/off on a fireplace... Wires were small gauge ...probably 24 ... Anyway they backstabbed.. Switch failed...

Replaced using screws on a new switch... 3 years now... No issues.

 

[larry4406]

As pointed out above - new outlets are only backstabable on 14ga wire. Are your electricians running outlets with 14?

The legit contractors here stick with 12ga/20a for outlets, 14ga/15a for lights...and yep they like to backstab the light switches..

Yes outlets in family rooms, living rooms, studies, bedrooms etc are run in 14g/15a as this is permissible. Dining rooms and kitchens are 12g/20a. As others noted, going above and beyond Code in tract housing means the trade is loosing $ as the builder will not absorb the cost.

Not meant as a dig, but I would be surprised to see contractors running 12g/20a outlets where not required and not charging for it just because they feel "legit".

 

[Norcal]

Yes outlets in family rooms, living rooms, studies, bedrooms etc are run in 14g/15a as this is permissible. Dining rooms and kitchens are 12g/20a. As others noted, going above and beyond Code in tract housing means the trade is loosing $ as the builder will not absorb the cost.

Not meant as a dig, but I would be surprised to see contractors running 12g/20a outlets where not required and not charging for it just because they feel "legit".

Somebody has to pay & most want a gold plated job on a chrome plated plastic budget.

 

[sberry]

Most of the time a diy job has way more better than spec.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

My buddy just bought a house and had issues with several receptacles and switches, most backstabbed. Switched to screw terminals and problems fixed except two switches that were bad, no continuity.

 

[Git]

When I wired my house myself, every single outlet and switch got pigtailed and the connections wrapped on the screws. No backstab for me!

'Back Wire' with the screw and clamp type outlets are almost as easy as back stabbed - well worth the additional cost

I found a pretty decent pic on the internet that shows both types:

 

[larry4406]

Somebody has to pay & most want a gold plated job on a chrome plated plastic budget.

Which translates to you get back stabs and 14g were code minimum allows since no one pays for this.

 

[ard]

Which translates to you get back stabs and 14g were code minimum allows since no one pays for this.

If it will cost $1200 for a home to upgrade materials to spec grade outlets and 12g...whatdaya think most spec home developers will charge?

$10k?

$15k?


I mean 'being all custom' and 'we've gotta change all our procedures for just your one change order'.

Tract home builders just brutalize buyers on ANY changes- so people really get trapped into tract home garbage even if they are willing to upgrade the materials and pay a modest profit.

 

[reader2580]

I wired my first house from scratch and my current house has been about 50% rewired. Everything is pigtailed. I would never consider backstabbing.

I am surprised any electrical contractor would run 12 gauge where not required. They all seem to build to minimum code to save money. My garage is all 12 gauge and I was shocked considering how bad a job was done on the house. I have done some rewiring in the garage and stuck with 12 gauge as the extra cost is minimal. The real issue with 12 gauge is how much harder it is to work with than 14 gauge.

 

[larry4406]

If it will cost $1200 for a home to upgrade materials to spec grade outlets and 12g...whatdaya think most spec home developers will charge?

$10k?

$15k?


I mean 'being all custom' and 'we've gotta change all our procedures for just your one change order'.

Tract home builders just brutalize buyers on ANY changes- so people really get trapped into tract home garbage even if they are willing to upgrade the materials and pay a modest profit.

If it costs $1200 to upgrade a home and a builder does 300-500 homes a year do you expect the builder to simply eat $360-600k? No they don’t. Production builders also tend to minimize changes and deviations and when approved, charge quite highly for them. The hand holding to implement customs is not trivial in a production world - imagine telling everyone to forget what they normally do and do something different this one time only. I can tell you the interference I have to run to hand hold customs in houses is not trivial, then multiple that by 10-20 concurrent homes and it is quickly not manageable.

I detest back stabbing which is the subject of the thread. But since it is Code acceptable, in my position as a project manager I have no recourse unless the bean counters open up their wallets and change their contracts to forbid this practice. Unfortunately I don’t see this going away.