Backhoe vs miniex for roads, sitework.

[Orionrising]

Just bought 100 acre woodlot. Needs roadwork graveling and eventually house and shop. This is not good dozer road country too many glacial random rocks.

Perfer a miniex but that would be painfully slow for gravel bank work. Some older 2wd backhoes around for maybe 10k or miniexs, 4x4 hoes around 20k...


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[Justind97]

Spend the money and get the 4x4 hoe. Faster, more versatile. You'll get WAY more use out of one than the miniex.

Not that I'm knocking miniexs, but the hoe will do better for you for sure.

 

[Bretny]

Its true miniex dont push very well but they do have there strong suits. Building a road is prob not one of them.

 

[Orionrising]

Looking at 10ksize minis not tiny ones. It would have some benifit in a tight eaement I've got to work with for part.

Ideal would be mini and skid steer but that gets pricey.

Figure over time I will need to move probably 1-2k yards of gravel if the bank is as good as it looks on the surface.

4x4 backhoe seems overall more affordable, but how well do they deal with ditches and off center work?

All my hours are in Doozers which doesn't help me.

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[myredracer]

Don't know what size rocks but one of the best tools I've had for building on acreage is a skid steer loader. I bought a nice older Case 1450C for a decent price 15 years ago and have put on around 1K hours on it over the years while building our house and prepping field areas. The toothed bucket works great for shallow digging and the large smooth edge bucket can move large piles of material very quickly. I moved 200 truck loads of fill around when we were leveling a field. The trucking co. owner couldn't believe how fast I did it. (Then they brought it a dozer to smooth it all out.)

Turns on a dime too while a backhoe needs a lot more space to maneuver around. The rubber tires are useless in soft ground and a tracked one would be nice. Can get a backhoe attachment but don't know how well they work. I also had an auger attachment for doing post holes. Still have the skidsteer and it doesn't get used much now but when I do, it sure comes in handy like clearing the driveway in the winter when we get a rare heavy snowfall here.

 

[Orionrising]

Rock vary from gravel to house size boulders. I do see alot of skidsteers around but also see people saying repairs get expensive and common after like 3k hours.

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[Firebrick43]

I really don't understand your saying it's not good dozer road country. Any grading is going to catch rocks, and dozer operators are used to dealing with them? Mini excavators and loader backhoes are the lousiest road builders except very certain places. Why, they can't grade worth a ****. What's most or road building? Grading.

a tracked skid steer with a grader blade attachment would be much superior.

Also as a safety point since I have witnessed recently a lot of suburbanites purchasing woods to get back to the land. One idea they have is using a loader tractor/backhoe to carry logs out on the buckets. This will get you killed. The tree will catch on a stump or another tree, pivot, come up over the hood, and crush you. Always skid/drag trees out to a clear landing before lifting with a loader.

Coworker bought a new jd 50?? Series of 45hp a couple of years ago. I told him what would happen but he didn't listen. Tree pivoted and went over the loader/hood and landed in his lap. Some how he wasn't crushed as the tires supported the weight but he was pinned. 6" more and his chest would of been crushed. Since he was alone and stuck he backed up and caught the log between two trees wiping out the dash/steering column/ and hood but freed himself.

Rule number 2 don't push trees/brush in the woods without a rated forestry cage. A cab or rops doesn't cut it. Similar results, one end will come back over the buck/loader and spear you. It happens in the blink of an eye. My father did this kind of work (had a d7, no 12 grader, pull scrapper, and later a 45k excavator). One summer (1987)two of his friends(seperate accidents) died they were pushing brush and 4" trees speared them. Both had very heavy 6 post canopies designed for forest work but didn't have the heavy mesh guards. These small openings is where the end of the trees came in.

Dad stopped pushing brush piles and trees over with his d7 and bought the large excavator with a thumb.

 

[Orionrising]

Basically odd shaped rocks at odd angles mixed in to each other.. Random granite you aren't going to break off sticking up and going deep enough and up against other rocks you can't easily push em out. either build up many yards over them or much easier dig around the grab and yank with a thumb and bucket.

95% of forestry road work around here is medium sized excavator work. Ditch in the sides pull material to center grab buckets off the side to fill popped rocks and stumps. I am planning on more permanent roads since I appear to have good gravel and want to go lighter on the ditches.

Probably rent a dozer or hire a grade for the final crown, but probably years of occasional night and weekend work before that point.

Definitely not pulling trees with a machine. I ran a dozer fire plow for a few years and know all about tossing trees and breaking things. Hand felling for me.

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[TractorJeff]

When I was younger, I ran a Backhoe for a few years. Guys I worked with taught me how to use it "off center" without tipping it over. Also learned how to go across some of the softest wet-est swamps without sinking out of sight!
Loading off a Gravel Bank, its superior (IMO) to a MiniEx for this job.
As far as 2wd verses 4wd, we found that most times a good operator could "Crab Walk" himself out of a bad spot. Having 4wd is more maintenance and more "I can go anywhere" mentality!

 

[readhead]

You might consider a tractor/loader/backhoe. That way you get the benefit of a three point hitch and the implements for grading.

 

[Orionrising]

So many Craiglist posts look like scams.. low price random sentence from machine specs.

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[Citation]

You might consider a tractor/loader/backhoe. That way you get the benefit of a three point hitch and the implements for grading.

I was thinking the same thing grader box and all. It's a bit of s Swiss army tool, not the best tool for any one job but ok for so many. You could also put a mower deck/bush hog on the back.

 

[Orionrising]

Have an old tractor to run a rake or blade behind.

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[PNWguy]

I chose a mini-ex (Takauchi 125) over a hoe. It's much, much slower than a hoe and tears up the ground a little more. However, it hauls wood so much better - I can grab a log, swing the house 90 degrees and drive through the woods. I try to leave lots of trees standing, and there's usually no way to carry a log sideways through the trails I've cut. I also like the ability to do everything from the same seat.

I think it'll boil down to what you plan to do. Either way will be good, but will have some big drawbacks as well.

 

[HoosierMark]

I personally would strongly consider hiring someone to do 90% of the work with the right equipment. Get it done quickly and get it done right. If you buy a machine you have your time, the inevitable breakdown and repairs when you have time to use it, etc. I have had a skid steer with metal tracks for almost 10 years and would not give it up but I know my limits and most of the limits of the machine. I always ask myself, if I am that good at doing this stuff then why don't I do it for a living. Let a pro do the heavy stuff and save yourself a lot of headaches. just my humble opinion.

 

[lango]

After you get the road sort of laid out, after you've added rock and walked it in,(a good dump truck driver is worth the $) you might check with independent paving companys to see if they have a smaller motorgrader. That would do a good job on the ditches, and get the crown right. If you get the trees out of the way (I'd try to curve the road around any huge boulders, trees you like, etc.)you can have small burn piles around, and limit moving tree stumps, limbs, etc. Or rent a Big chipper, and blow the chips in your woods. You have a lot of options- the more $ you spend on good help, the less sweating you do.
Good luck- fun project!
David

 

[Orionrising]

be wayy to expensive to hire it done. probably like 50k as most guy dont like to use onsite materials. If i buy 20k worth of equipment and get a few hundred hours out of it without major repairs and use a cheap no road legal dump i probably come out 30k ahead. 9-5 job so rentals would be way expensive and spread out to go that way other then maybe a big ex for a day for major stumping.

 

[Strouty]

Since this will clearly be a long term project, find a big excavator, you should be able to buy an older bigger one for cheap, get it hauled in and leave it on site. I bet you could find one with a nice blade and thumb for under 20K delivered.

 

[Strouty]

No blade, manual thumb, but it would move some earth.

https://maine.craigslist.org/hvo/d/jsw-80/6705024451.html

 

[Orionrising]

I could go that direction, and rent a small machine for the about 900 feet of 25-50 used to be rightofway work I need to do first.

 

[readhead]

Do you need something to remove snow? That might influence your decision.

 

[Orionrising]

Eventually but will need a dump move gravel anyway. Lots of rusty no longer road legal ones around.

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[Jon_E]

Second the opinion of buying an older but much larger excavator with thumb to do the work. Only way I would consider doing roadbuilding and clearing on a large wooded lot.

 

[Orionrising]

At the fair today looking at 5 ton minis. It's dangerous. Payments and a warrantee has it's upside vs big cash outlay. Pondering a 4-5 ton to own and maybe make some money with and rent a big one for a week when I need it.
Did find a 40lb linkbelt locally for 20k which would be great... If it last a few hundred hours. May go look at it. But putting 20k out in cash hurts.

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[JamesW84]

i rented a 6 ton mini last summer thinking I'd push trees with it. I was able to push trees over up to about 8" diameter, and that took some work. I'm a novice, but i think I had a decent grasp of what to do.

I ended up paying a guy $1000 to push my 30 trees with his track loader. Well worth it.

I then bought a used backhoe for $4500 and moved over 400 yards of dirt. If you go this route, replace all hoses and fix all leaks before beginning. I can't tell you how many hoses I blew before I decided to replace them all (about 90% really). It's so much nicer not having to worry about them. A few small leaks mean I have to add about a gallon of hydraulic fluid for each day I work with it. I've had to purchase tires, rebuild cylinders, fix the brakes, so figure that into your equation when you look at older used equipment.

I wanted a mini X, but I'm glad i didn't buy one. They would be handy if you had a skid steer though.

By the way, a lot of guys prefer 2wd backhoes because they weigh less. I've gotten mine (2wd) "stuck" a few times in fill dirt that I moved, and actually thought I wouldn't be able to get it out. Very stressfull sitting on an incline sideways in a 12,000 lb machine. Usually lifting up with the stabilizers and putting something solid under the tires is what gets me out, but seems like that's the last thing I think of to do.

Only buy a used machine if you're willing to learn how to work on it and willing to buy the proper tools to do so.

Oh yeah, and backhoes do **** at grading. You pretty much have to dig it to the grade you want and backdrag or scoop it up with the loader bucket. At least that's what my novice operating skills tell me.

 

[Orionrising]

True on grading. That will be a small number if hours out of the whole project though.
I am probably just to excited. Be best to wait till spring for a backhoe.

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[theoldwizard1]

If you are cutting in a new road on a steep grade a mini-excavator works better. Put the blade down hill and spin the other end up hill. You have to have a thumb !

4WD back hoe is much faster on flatter surfaces.

Clearing Hillside For Road With New Excavator

 

[Orionrising]

Hmm found a 1987 jcb 1400b backhoe locally to look at. 7k.

Unfortunately 2wd and probably British fittings. Price may be right though.

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[RoyBell]

this thread needs more pictures.

 

[Warrenator]

In reference to the JCB backhoe having different fittings because of the Euro standard....

One of the happiest days of my mechanical life was when I found a really good hose shop, they could and did make anything for me. Before I found them I was struggling with getting a hose that was close and then trying to figure out what adapters I needed and building standoffs and clamps to keep stuff from rubbing..... Plus if I didn't know what size I needed they would just look at it and say, oh yeah that's a number 4 male euro style quick connect, did you want it in blue anodized or steel?

 

[Blazinzuk]

I dont have a ton of equipment experience, but a backhoe is a tool that does everything all right.

Most guys I know ( farmers and contractors) that use equipment on a regular basis would love a small excavator AND a skid steer, but typically chose the backhoe.

One farmer I knew bought a small excavator and a skid steer. Kept the skid steer sold the excavator, just too single purpose

 

[Bclinehand]

Since this will clearly be a long term project, find a big excavator, you should be able to buy an older bigger one for cheap, get it hauled in and leave it on site. I bet you could find one with a nice blade and thumb for under 20K delivered.

Strouty has the right Idea..........backhoes and small excavators are for small jobs........you will be farther ahead to buy a large excavator and hire out the jobs where it wont work...........

 

[Fixed]

I think a few pics would really help people offer advice.

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[rburke65]

Experience and the big equipment makes a big difference. Hire it out and the go buy a small...midsize....TLB.

 

[seanc_mt]

Buy once cry once. I have a mini ex and a skid steer. Best of both worlds and with those two and the right skill you can do everything. Way more attachments and way more handy.

 

[nes999]

If you purchase used equpiment be prepared to spend alot of time wrenching. Speaking from experience rarely does anything break when it is convient.

My advice is to hire out the grading. People will tell you you can do it with a skidsteer. At best It'll turn out MEH.

Other than that have fun. You'll have some growing pains at first but ones you learn those specific machines you'll feel like you can do surgery with them.

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[Orionrising]

no go on that one, guy couldnt get it started, and 8500 hours on the meter and a rusted muffler probably dumping water in the engine.

 

[Orionrising]

Buy once cry once. I have a mini ex and a skid steer. Best of both worlds and with those two and the right skill you can do everything. Way more attachments and way more handy.

brand and size?

happy with them?

Id really like a mini, but that would take soo long to load out gravel

 

[346ci]

A 4wd backhoe would serve you well as a all around use machine for that size property. I have a '99 Deere 310E and love it. The only other machine I'd like to add would be a large track hoe with a hyd. thumb.

There is a right tool for every job, problem is I can't afford them all..

 

[Orionrising]

oh yes, lots of nice toys i could get.
new with a warrantee and parts available has its luster, but payments dont