Backup Generator

[Milton Shaw]

Well, I had to use something I thought since I had one I would never need it again. I bought a 17 kw backup generator 2 years ago since the house is total electric and installed it with a 500 gallon propane tank for backup. Last night we had a big wind storm come through Knoxville. The utility company has 199,000 customers and the storm had 127,000 without power at one time and still has 55,000 with out after 24 hours. I am sure glad I had a generator already as they cannot be bought anywhere today. Power was off one minute and then backup started, everything operated normally and went to bed with it running. Utility power came back on about 2:00 this morning and my neighbor hood was lucky it came on so soon. What plans do you have for emergency power. I asked the natural gas supplier 2 years ago. "Can you supply natural gas if we had a regional power outage like the northeast had in 2003" They checked with their engineers and said no we could not supply, so I bought the propane tank and I am ready for at least a week without power.

 

[montecarlo31]

Well, I had to use something I thought since I had one I would never need it again. I bought a 17 kw backup generator 2 years ago since the house is total electric and installed it with a 500 gallon propane tank for backup. Last night we had a big wind storm come through Knoxville. The utility company has 199,000 customers and the storm had 127,000 without power at one time and still has 55,000 with out after 24 hours. I am sure glad I had a generator already as they cannot be bought anywhere today. Power was off one minute and then backup started, everything operated normally and went to bed with it running. Utility power came back on about 2:00 this morning and my neighbor hood was lucky it came on so soon. What plans do you have for emergency power. I asked the natural gas supplier 2 years ago. "Can you supply natural gas if we had a regional power outage like the northeast had in 2003" They checked with their engineers and said no we could not supply, so I bought the propane tank and I am ready for at least a week without power.

I've got a 25 kw diesel generator. I went diesel because the fact of the matter is propane and natural gas requires you to rely on others for delivery. Propane engines also had a much shorter time to overhaul then my diesel when run at rated load. I've got easy access to 5,000 gallons of diesel come the bad weather. I've got 250 gallons of diesel on site and another 20 gallons in cans, enough for me to realize I need to get more diesel if I run out or can't get to fuel. My supply gives me 8 days of continues use (or more) without needing to stop for a refuel or oil change like the cheaper air cooled units. My house only needs probably 4 to 5 KW most of the time (2,300 sq feet now). I went with 25 because for the difference in price I knew it would start the next house I built (~4,500 sq feet).

Mine sits on the side of our house, trailer mounted but with the tires off and supported / mounted to prevent the torsen axles from failing while sitting. My neighbors hate listening to it run when the storms knock out power but I can't hear it so I really don't care, in fact I believe it's quieter then the cheap air cooled units that most purchase.

Air Cooled + high load + Florida heat equals a quick failure and short engine life.

 

[holdover]

I run my house with a 6000 watt gas generator, been doing it for near 35 years now. I live in the mtns of SW VA and the power goes out 5-10 times in the winter with ice storms etc. Been without power for as long as 10 days. Unless a inexpensive upgrade comes along I'll keep the system I have. I heat with an outside wood stove which also heats my hot water so i don't need many amps to run the house.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I run my house with a 6000 watt gas generator, been doing it for near 35 years now.

How much gas do you keep on hand ? Do you rotate your supply.


I have never had an outage long enough to pull out my 5kw. The more I think about it, the more I think I could run my furnace, refrigerator, freezer, a couple of lights and TV on less than 3kw.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Backup Generators are great. I have a big *** Generac (my company is a Generac dealer) that powers my whole house. I understand the allure of Diesel and Propane, but my only option was Natural Gas; as were not allowed in our subdivision to have fuel tanks including both propane and diesel.

Our power both in Colorado and Arizona never seems to go out during storms, it always seems to go out in the middle of the night, or on a beautiful sunny day; but no matter when it goes out its always cool to hear the generator fire and the house come back online, its especially cool in the middle of the night to see darkness all around, with the exception of my house.

 

[58Yeoman]

I have a HF 6500 watt gas gen. I had to use it night before last, as the power would be out for at least 4 hours after a storm. It ran the central air, one window unit, various lights and well pump, 2 fridges and an upright freezer. I could tell when something would kick on or off by the flicker in the lights, but it was cheap to buy. I would rather have an auto unit that kicks on and off by itself, but that's not in the budget right now.

 

[nehog]

A military surplus MEP-004A on a trailer... Not only power at the house when it goes out, but portable (OK, it weighs 7K lb, so no towing with your Prius) so I can power events too...

 

[slice]

17 kw generac with 500 gallon propane, backs up whole house, back feed breaker panels, huge 400 amp utility disconnect so no back feed utility company lines,.... have figured out it cost 75 dollars per 24 hrs to run so i shut off at 10 pm and on at 7 am when power is out....

 

[montecarlo31]

17 kw generac with 500 gallon propane, backs up whole house, back feed breaker panels, huge 400 amp utility disconnect so no back feed utility company lines,.... have figured out it cost 75 dollars per 24 hrs to run so i shut off at 10 pm and on at 7 am when power is out....

75 bucks seems very very low. Is this only the fuel cost and not total operating expense?

 

[henrysgarage]

I have used two at a time (1400 and 2700) generators during the ice storm of late 1990's while we were out for 12 days. Now I have a 72K gen (gas) but have not installed the gen panel so I just use chords to plug in what ever I need, first is always the sump pump. Remember you must have a panel that disconnects the neutral as well as the two lines.

 

[brianh]

I have a 4500 watt it is used for areas I work at that have no electric and at the house when the power goes, mainly for running the fridge a few hours a day.

We usually lose power once or twice a year for a few days at a time.

With a wood stove and high efficiency led battery lamps I don't see a use for a larger unit for the amount of time the power is lost.

 

[LCD]

I use a ex military PE95K 10 KW unit when needed which is not very often and tow it with my M37.

 

[Alchymist]

I have used two at a time (1400 and 2700) generators during the ice storm of late 1990's while we were out for 12 days. Now I have a 72K gen (gas) but have not installed the gen panel so I just use chords to plug in what ever I need, first is always the sump pump. Remember you must have a panel that disconnects the neutral as well as the two lines.

Not necessarily - depends on the generator and the bonding system. Common mistake - not knowing what is required for which system.

 

[holdover]

Here is a link to finding gas stations that sell pure gas without ethanol. From what I understand it is better to use pure gas in generators, chain saws etc and it will store longer.. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=VA just click on your state..

 

[BADSIX]

I've got a 25 kw diesel generator. I went diesel because the fact of the matter is propane and natural gas requires you to rely on others for delivery. Propane engines also had a much shorter time to overhaul then my diesel when run at rated load. I've got easy access to 5,000 gallons of diesel come the bad weather. I've got 250 gallons of diesel on site and another 20 gallons in cans, enough for me to realize I need to get more diesel if I run out or can't get to fuel. My supply gives me 8 days of continues use (or more) without needing to stop for a refuel or oil change like the cheaper air cooled units. My house only needs probably 4 to 5 KW most of the time (2,300 sq feet now). I went with 25 because for the difference in price I knew it would start the next house I built (~4,500 sq feet).

Mine sits on the side of our house, trailer mounted but with the tires off and supported / mounted to prevent the torsen axles from failing while sitting. My neighbors hate listening to it run when the storms knock out power but I can't hear it so I really don't care, in fact I believe it's quieter then the cheap air cooled units that most purchase.

Air Cooled + high load + Florida heat equals a quick failure and short engine life.

with 25 kw you could sell some of it to your neighbors

 

[Old Moparz]

When it was just my wife & I, it was no big deal to have power out for a while. The longest it was out was about a day & a half, & we had minimal amounts of frozen food that we could cook & put in our camping trailer freezer. A couple of years after our daughter was born, there was a storm that took out power for a week. Of course we couldn't get a generator at that time, but we did get one soon after, a gas powered, 6500 watt Generac.

A friend of mine who is an electrical engineer helped me wire up the garage when I built it. Right by the side service door & under an overhang, we put a weather proof outlet that I plug the generator into & backfeed the house via the garage. I simply turn off the main feed to my house before I start the generator. This has been a long term, temporary set up that I have used several times until I can get a transfer switch done. (Time & money.) My friend backfeeds his house through his dryer outlet.

I can run the boiler, the lights, the refrigerator, the TV, the coal stove that works like a pellet stove, etc., without putting any high demands on the generator. If I know I need to run the well pump or the water heater for a while, I just turn off a couple of breakers of whatever we don't need so I don't tax the generator.

 

[Alchymist]

When it was just my wife & I, it was no big deal to have power out for a while. The longest it was out was about a day & a half, & we had minimal amounts of frozen food that we could cook & put in our camping trailer freezer. A couple of years after our daughter was born, there was a storm that took out power for a week. Of course we couldn't get a generator at that time, but we did get one soon after, a gas powered, 6500 watt Generac.

A friend of mine who is an electrical engineer helped me wire up the garage when I built it. Right by the side service door & under an overhang, we put a weather proof outlet that I plug the generator into & backfeed the house via the garage. I simply turn off the main feed to my house before I start the generator. This has been a long term, temporary set up that I have used several times until I can get a transfer switch done. (Time & money.) My friend backfeeds his house through his dryer outlet.

I can run the boiler, the lights, the refrigerator, the TV, the coal stove that works like a pellet stove, etc., without putting any high demands on the generator. If I know I need to run the well pump or the water heater for a while, I just turn off a couple of breakers of whatever we don't need so I don't tax the generator.

Not to belabor the point about having a proper transfer switch, but around our area if there is a power failure and the POCO sees a house all lit up, they will take a look. If it's one of the jury rigged backfeeding setups, they cut the service cable and it doesn't get reinstalled until the proper switch gear in installed and inspected. And they are in no hurry about it.

 

[crewchief888]

i have a 3500 watt husky from HD.
of course since i bought it 3 years ago, the power hasnt been out for more than 5 minutes.
the 2 years before that we lost power here twice for up to 1 1/2 days.
i'm more concerned with the basement flooding than anything else.

last time the power went out, no generators could be found, i borrowed one from a friends neighbor and after unloading the beast (8000watt CM) found out the generator didnt work
luckily my neighbor let me tap off his geerator, and could at least start the sump pumps to begin pumping the foot of water downstairs.

 

[Carl B]

I had a 17kw backup generator installed about three years ago. Properly installed with the transfer switch etc. It will run on either LP or Natural Gas.

Living in Florida - during Hurricane Season - we can lose power for more than a week or two. We could just go to some other city and live in a hotel - not a big problem. The big problem is the heat and humidity that builds in the house with no A/C running for a week or two. Mold, mildew can easily form here - and there goes all your papers, clothing and other things you'd like to keep - even if not damaged by the storm.

So for backup - I wanted a generator that could run at least the lights and two A/C units...

Our local natural gas company said that they have never lost service for more than a couple days in any past Hurricanes. We usually don't get direct hits from Hurricanes here {Tampa Bay Area} - but the small tornado's that spin off the outer bands of a hurricane can and do cause electrical power outages here.

If we were projected to get a more or less direct hit here - from anything more powerful than a Cat. 2 - we'd just pack up and leave well in advance. I have a truck and enclosed car hauler that I use for cars - but in case of a Hurricane - it becomes my family escape vehicle.

The old "ounce of prevention" thing...

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[930dreamer]

Mep 018A 10k single and three phase gas. I haven't decided what to do with it, aircooled, loud and likes gas.

 

[montecarlo31]

with 25 kw you could sell some of it to your neighbors

That ain't gonna happen they always complain about my trucks and firing up engines at 3 in the morning yet I have one of the three nicest looking houses in the neighborhood, Go figure.

I make a point to turn on EVERY outside house light when the power is out so that there is a nice glow from my house. They ask me why I keep them on when on the generator and I say why not...

 

[BADSIX]

3 in the morning, might be a little irritating for anyone

 

[W_A_Watson_II]

I use a ex military PE95K 10 KW unit when needed which is not very often and tow it with my M37.

Nice M37!

 

[Norcal]

When it was just my wife & I, it was no big deal to have power out for a while. The longest it was out was about a day & a half, & we had minimal amounts of frozen food that we could cook & put in our camping trailer freezer. A couple of years after our daughter was born, there was a storm that took out power for a week. Of course we couldn't get a generator at that time, but we did get one soon after, a gas powered, 6500 watt Generac.

A friend of mine who is an electrical engineer helped me wire up the garage when I built it. Right by the side service door & under an overhang, we put a weather proof outlet that I plug the generator into & backfeed the house via the garage. I simply turn off the main feed to my house before I start the generator. This has been a long term, temporary set up that I have used several times until I can get a transfer switch done. (Time & money.) My friend backfeeds his house through his dryer outlet. This is called a "suicide cord".


I can run the boiler, the lights, the refrigerator, the TV, the coal stove that works like a pellet stove, etc., without putting any high demands on the generator. If I know I need to run the well pump or the water heater for a while, I just turn off a couple of breakers of whatever we don't need so I don't tax the generator.

These type of posts is why a law is needed to prohibit anyone doing these careless / ignorant/ etc. stunts should have ALL ultilities shut off for a year, including, water, gas, electricity,sewer,phone, cell phone,cable TV, & internet. Just because it's a good way to get someone killed because somebody decided to get "clever".

 

[montecarlo31]

These type of posts is why a law is needed to prohibit anyone doing these careless / ignorant/ etc. stunts should have ALL ultilities shut off for a year, including, water, gas, electricity,sewer,phone, cell phone,cable TV, & internet. Just because it's a good way to get someone killed because somebody decided to get "clever".

if he turns off the breaker there's nothing dangerous at all about this. Infact it's possible for a transfer switch to fail.

If not make it easy...

http://www.interlockkit.com/

 

[rvr6000]

Northern Tool 5kw generator - enough to run the furnace in the winter and a few utilities as long as they aren't all on at the same time. Had a new furnace installed a couple months ago...added a transfer switch for the generator at the same time.

 

[Alchymist]

if he turns off the breaker there's nothing dangerous at all about this. Infact it's possible for a transfer switch to fail.

If not make it easy...

http://www.interlockkit.com/

Therein lies the rub.....IF.

And who's to say someone else may not try to start the generator not knowing just which breakers to switch?

I wasn't going to comment further than I originally posted above, but...

Anyone who shortcuts the installation with cheater cords to back feed, or rely on turning a breaker off to prevent back feeding, well, ...guess I'd better not go there either.

 

[henrysgarage]

Not necessarily - depends on the generator and the bonding system. Common mistake - not knowing what is required for which system.

In Ontario you must use a 3 leg transfer switch.

 

[Alchymist]

In Ontario you must use a 3 leg transfer switch.

In the US, depends on the generator setup - if the genset is bonded neutral to ground, the neutral must be switched. If the genset neutral and ground are separate, the neutral is not switched. Local codes may modify this. Then there is also the "separately derived" system which is another can of worms, but usually in an industrial setting.

 

[cranejon]

Anyone have experience with a home backup unit by GE? I have a $6000 quote for one installed with all proper disconnects, transfer switch, gas piping and permits. Unit is air cooled with a briggs and stratton motor. I looked the unit over and it seemed very small and condensed. Suggestions?
Thank you

 

[nate379]

Therein lies the rub.....IF.

And who's to say someone else may not try to start the generator not knowing just which breakers to switch?

I wasn't going to comment further than I originally posted above, but...

Anyone who shortcuts the installation with cheater cords to back feed, or rely on turning a breaker off to prevent back feeding, well, ...guess I'd better not go there either.

Lets drop the what if game and get the **** over yourself.

 

[Alchymist]

Lets drop the what if game and get the **** over yourself.

My My....Thumper,what did Momma say?

 

[HookWorse]

As soon as I saw the word generator, I knew it was time to run.

The transfer switch battle continues.....

 

[Norcal]

if he turns off the breaker there's nothing dangerous at all about this. Infact it's possible for a transfer switch to fail.

If not make it easy...

http://www.interlockkit.com/[url] ...not use a transfer switch or a interlock kit.

 

[Alchymist]

As soon as I saw the word generator, I knew it was time to run.

The transfer switch battle continues.....

Yes, this is a regularly recurring theme on many boards. And on every one there is the idiot that says something like - "all you have to do is remember to shut off the main breaker first" or "Been back-feeding for years with no problem"....and on and on.

So, if I can save just one person from making a costly and possible fatal mistake, I'll take the flack and the flames. Bring it on.

 

[nate379]

It's like remembering to wipe your *** after you **** or shaking after you piss. It ain't that hard!

 

[danv]

Here is what I use. Safe, effective and less costly that a lot of other options. http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm
Used it on several occasions over the last few years and glad that I have it. We lost pwer for a couple weeks during the Great Ice Storm here in Eastern Ontario and I would not be caught without a backup again.

 

[HookWorse]

Here is what I use. Safe, effective and less costly that a lot of other options. http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm
Used it on several occasions over the last few years and glad that I have it. We lost pwer for a couple weeks during the Great Ice Storm here in Eastern Ontario and I would not be caught without a backup again.

Interesting. I've never seen anything like this before.

Do you recall what you have invested in this?

 

[Old Moparz]

I'm fully aware that my set up isn't the correct way to power my house, but taking an approach that combines respect for electricity & common sense, it works for me as a temporary measure. Would I recommend this set up to someone? More than likely I wouldn't, but it also depends on who is asking. We all know someone who can't operate a hammer, or someone who can build a nuclear weapon from a box of paper clips & duct tape. Guess which person needs to stay away from a generator?

Regarding this post.....

Not to belabor the point about having a proper transfer switch, but around our area if there is a power failure and the POCO sees a house all lit up, they will take a look. If it's one of the jury rigged backfeeding setups, they cut the service cable and it doesn't get reinstalled until the proper switch gear in installed and inspected. And they are in no hurry about it.

And this one.....

These type of posts is why a law is needed to prohibit anyone doing these careless / ignorant/ etc. stunts should have ALL ultilities shut off for a year, including, water, gas, electricity,sewer,phone, cell phone,cable TV, & internet. Just because it's a good way to get someone killed because somebody decided to get "clever".

They make similar points, but of the two, the first one will get respect from me as part of a discussion.

As for my set up being dangerous & killing someone, there is less of that possibility ever occurring than you think. First of all, there is absolutely no way anyone is going to accidentally turn on the generator & automatically feed electricity anywhere.

The pull start generator is not hooked up or plugged into an outlet.

The generator is stored in a locked, detached garage.

The outlet is on the exterior wall of the garage.

The garage sub panel has a dedicated breaker for the generator outlet that is off when not in use.

The power cord to plug the generator in is kept separate from the generator, not attached.

When I shut down the generator, I close the fuel valve until it stalls & leave the valve in the closed position so I know there will never be any fuel in the carb to gum it up.

Before I start the generator, I turn the main off in my basement as well as all the circuit breakers to everything in my house.

Once the generator is running, I plug in the cable, turn on the breaker in the sub panel in the garage, then turn on the breakers I need in the house.

When I know the power in the neighborhood is back on I go through through the procedure of stalling the generator, shutting it off, disconnecting it, & setting everything back to normal.

Is this a fail safe method? Of course not, but I'd bet you the contents of my garage that it's safer than most of the dumb **** I see people do with a simple extension cord & a wall outlet.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Knoxville has really been hit hard this week, Tuesday night 127,000 without power at one time,. They had all but about 35,000 back on Thursday and another storm came through and upped it to about 60,000 again. I had power Wed morning early after backup kept everything working, Thursday night another big tree got my power and phones, backup came on and ran for another 10 hours before they got it on. Our utility co. has 95 crews (borrowed from as far away as Indiana) out and are telling people it may be next week before everybody is back on. What has happened to the weather, this outage is 3 times the number of customers on there all time outage list of blizzard of 93 when they had 44,000 out. Trees down everywhere, probably 50 streets still impassable, house with roofs caved in, so far nobody dead from tree's here but its a miracle as many as I have seen down today. I know utility crews are making good money but they do eventually have to rest its been everyday and night this week.