Alchymist
Well-known member
Playing Russian Roulette with 1 bullet in the gun is far safer than with 2 bullets; but I'm not playing either way.
NOW, OFF THE
Backup Generator
- Thread starter Milton Shaw
- Start date
Playing Russian Roulette with 1 bullet in the gun is far safer than with 2 bullets; but I'm not playing either way.
NOW, OFF THE
Old Moparz
Well-known member
Playing Russian Roulette with 1 bullet in the gun is far safer than with 2 bullets; but I'm not playing either way.
NOW, OFF THE
LOL
I understand your point, but it is a little like comparing apples to oranges over the safety issue. If my generator were one that had a push button start, remained connected at all times, & power failures happened on a regular basis, then I'd have to fully agree that I was taking a big risk.
There are just too many steps that need to be taken in order for it to be set up & connected for power. Besides, I'm the only one that accesses this thing & power doesn't go out very often. I may have lost power for time periods that would warrant using a generator 5 or 6 times in the 22 years I've lived here.
GMCAMARO
Well-known member
We have 16KW portable generator. Runs the whole only not with everything running at the same time. It does the whole house AC and thats all I care about, with the TV.
HemiRambler
Well-known member
What are you guys spending on these units???
LCD
Well-known member
Free but cost $850 parts and block prep work, hot tank, brgs, valve work, soft plugs, sleeves ect to rebuild the Jeep engine that powers the 10KW unit.
collmorgen
Well-known member
I've been through two hurricanes (power out for about 5 days each). I powered enough of the house with a 10 kw welder/generator by back feeding through the dryer plug. I can't justify a dedicated generator.
Alchymist
Well-known member
You don't need a "dedicated generator". All you need is a transfer switch and a plug. Simple enough..........
Teken
Well-known member
Where's the pop corn . . . 
Alchymist
Well-known member
Where's the pop corn . . .
Sorry, no popcorn. Power is off, and the generator won't start.
Teken
Well-known member
Sorry, no popcorn. Power is off, and the generator won't start.
Boooooooooooo Booooooooooooo
coldfusion21
Well-known member
I've always thought those interlock devices that prevent main breaker and gen breaker from both being on are the way to go. Cheap (compared to the price of the generator your attaching it to) fail safe and up to code.
No back up gen here, we rarely lose power and only once or twice has it been more then 24 hours or so.
I'd like a nice mep-003 or -004 just in case though. Loud and not very fuel efficient but it'd be something neat to tinker with and would likely be on a trailer so fully portable.
No back up gen here, we rarely lose power and only once or twice has it been more then 24 hours or so.
I'd like a nice mep-003 or -004 just in case though. Loud and not very fuel efficient but it'd be something neat to tinker with and would likely be on a trailer so fully portable.
nehog
Well-known member
My MEP-004A has an acoustical sound suppression enclosure which makes it much quieter. Not nearly as bad as those cheap 5KW units from HD and Sears that run that little gas engine at 3600 RPM! (The MEP-004 runs at 1800, it's diesel too.)
I like those interlock devices, but that won't work with a three phase generator set. I use the ones that have switches for each circuit, rewired from single split phase to three phase (easy to do) and balance my normally single phase load over three phases.
I like those interlock devices, but that won't work with a three phase generator set. I use the ones that have switches for each circuit, rewired from single split phase to three phase (easy to do) and balance my normally single phase load over three phases.
Jbullfrog
ALLIANCE MEMBER
We have a pole top disconnect with a 220 generator feeder on the load side (this is what the power company did 30 years ago). I picked up a 11,000 watt Miller Trailblazer to use and it will be enough to power the house and shop heat if needed. I need to figure out a backup source for water, as we have a seperate transformer and meter 1/2 a mile back in the field for the well.
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nissan_crawler
Well-known member
You don't need a "dedicated generator". All you need is a transfer switch and a plug. Simple enough..........
Not here.
I do the breaker thing, to. Why? Here if you have it so your generator can power your entire house, then it has to be capable of actually powering the entire house.
The generator can only be hooked up to no more circuits than it can run at once. Dedicated panel, dedicated circuits.
For me, that means spending lots of money on a better generator, or choosing between heat/water/food. F' that.
Kill main, remove from panel, turn generator breaker on. Take a shower? Turn the furnace, fridge and light breakers off, turn well pump on. Done with shower? Turn well pump off, turn furnace, fridge and lights back on. Hungry? turn well pump, fridge, furnace off, turn microwave on.
Yeah, if somebody broke into my house, reinstalled the main breaker, and turned it on, and my generator actually made it half a second powering the block before it blew, it could possibly kill somebody. Get real.
If you want to donate $5-7k to do it how the city wants, let me know. I don't have that money, and if I did, I wouldn't spend it on a once every (so far) 8 year use.
The first (and only) time I did that, it was a 3 week wait for any electrician to show up, and the house was down to 28*, so there wasn't much choice at that point anyway. Still took 8 days to get power.
Alchymist
Well-known member
Duh, if you can turn off any breakers to stuff you don't want in your method, you can do the same with a transfer switch. Turn all the load breakers off, throw transfer switch, start generator, close breakers as desired. Hell of a lot quicker and safer than pulling the main breaker.
Then again, like anything else in life, you make the choice, pay the price, and live with the results.
I like the subfeed style transfer switch:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HS0HTY/?tag=atomicindus08-20
i get the feeling that none of us are going to change the minds of those here who are backfeeding their system using a generator without a transfer switch or interlock. even making up a diy version of a mechanical interlock is better than nothing but whatever. At lease those here seem to know what to do and are careful about the use an operation vs harvey homeowner making a suicide cord and plugging his harborfreight generator into the outlet on his porch.
the big concern with an illegal backfeed is not the guy who set it up and knows what he's doing -its someone else (wife, kid, whoever) who has seen him plug the gen in and doing it improperly if its needed and hes not around.
the big concern with an illegal backfeed is not the guy who set it up and knows what he's doing -its someone else (wife, kid, whoever) who has seen him plug the gen in and doing it improperly if its needed and hes not around.
Old Moparz
Well-known member
I looked at the link & read the description, but I have to ask what this does & where it goes in relation to the generator? It appears that it gets installed between the generator & the main panel, but I'm not sure.
If that's right, how would it prevent the feed from the generator from going out to the neighborhood without tripping the main off anyway?
Alchymist
Well-known member
I looked at the link & read the description, but I have to ask what this does & where it goes in relation to the generator? It appears that it gets installed between the generator & the main panel, but I'm not sure.
If that's right, how would it prevent the feed from the generator from going out to the neighborhood without tripping the main off anyway?
There are two "main" breakers in the unit, interlocked so only one at a time can be on. When used as a main, incoming line from meter base goes into the line side, and the genset feeds into the other side. Load breakers install in the panel, and can be turned on or off as desired when using the genset.
In existing systems, the unit is wired in as a sub panel, feeding from an (up to) 100 amp breaker in the main panel. this feed from the main goes into the line side. Genset feed goes into the other side. All circuits needing to be fed from the genset are installed in the unit, and can be turned on and off as desired when in gen mode. Switching between POCO and genset is as simple as throwing the switch. Installed this unit when I rewired current house.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TRC1006D
Old Moparz
Well-known member
There are two "main" breakers in the unit, interlocked so only one at a time can be on. When used as a main, incoming line from meter base goes into the line side, and the genset feeds into the other side. Load breakers install in the panel, and can be turned on or off as desired when using the genset.
In existing systems, the unit is wired in as a sub panel, feeding from an (up to) 100 amp breaker in the main panel. this feed from the main goes into the line side. Genset feed goes into the other side. All circuits needing to be fed from the genset are installed in the unit, and can be turned on and off as desired when in gen mode. Switching between POCO and genset is as simple as throwing the switch. Installed this unit when I rewired current house.
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?TRC1006D
That sounds like a decent way to go & I'll be showing my friend this & see what it will take to install one. I have some alterations to do later this year including some wiring to a shed I plan to build, so this could be a good time to do it.
Thanks.
nissan_crawler
Well-known member
DUH! NO I CAN'T! If you had read before, you would see that it isn't legal to hook up a single transfer switch, if your generator isn't big enough to power the entire house at once.
I could buy a 200 amp generator, or I could hook up my existing generator to a transfer switch for either the well, the furnace/lights, or the microwave, but only one of them.
Alchymist
Well-known member
I did read it before, and you didn't state that it was illegal. I guess when I re-read it you could, if so inclined, draw that conclusion. At that all I can say is your local code people aren't too smart....and I doubt very many of us otherwise have such a restriction.
As to the link I posted, the generator is only hooked up to the dedicated circuits. I have to ask, if you have a legal POCO disconnect that isolates you completely, what in he!! does the city care how big your generator is? Almost dumb beyond belief. So here's an example of a code that induces people to do things illegal.......
nehog
Well-known member
It is in the details... It is not allowed to hook up a single AUTOMATIC transfer switch unless the standby power system is capable of handling the full load that can be presented to it.
A manual single transfer switch can be done, as the operator can manually shed loads as needed to avoid overloading the backup power source.
The key word is automatic, in that the backup power source starts automatically and is transferred automatically without operator intervention.
nissan_crawler
Well-known member
Perhaps, but that's not what the powers that be told me. I was informed in no uncertain terms, that it could never be possible to overload the generator with the available circuits for it. I was told it had to be a separate panel with only enough circuits that my 3500w generator could run at once (not much).
Considering I'm on a well, that puts me in a pretty crappy position. I've lost power once in 8 years (that was long enough to worry about, anyway). I can't justify dropping $10k on a standby generator for that rare of use.
A little bit of common sense and flipping breakers goes a long way, but they don't see it like that. Why they care if I fry my own generator, I don't know. Even if it was overloaded, it's protected, but that's another story.
Same reason I have to show where my well and sewer are in order to build a shop, I guess. Seems to me, if you're dumb enough to build over the top of them, that's your problem.
ambenz
Well-known member
Moving on...and reviving a month old thread, I found myself in that twice a year power outage senario this weekend, watching my water venturie sump pump ringing up my water bill with slow results, I went out to a local small engine repair dealer and found a Briggs and Stratton Elite 5500 generator, used, but like new. He rebuilt the carb and wanted $500 US for it. I talked him down to $400 and lugged it home in the Mustang trunk..
Damn oil sensor is finiky, had to make sure the unit was pretty level or she wouldnt keep running!
Pretty eye opening lightening storm at 2 am finally got me thinking I need one.
The culprit of the power outage, just west of O'hare airport...
It's a good unit, just have to plan on getting some nice cords, or a transfer box so I can use 5000 watts of essentials.
Damn oil sensor is finiky, had to make sure the unit was pretty level or she wouldnt keep running!
Pretty eye opening lightening storm at 2 am finally got me thinking I need one.
The culprit of the power outage, just west of O'hare airport...
It's a good unit, just have to plan on getting some nice cords, or a transfer box so I can use 5000 watts of essentials.
romafern
Banned
Thanks for the pics ambenz!
I have a 10kw Generac heavy duty series that I got for the Y2K scare. I also have a xfer switch but it is not installed in the house I am currently in. Since the government moves me a lot, right now I rent. I have a house in Colorado that will get the xfer switch that I currently have boxed up in the garage.
For now, I have plenty of heavy duty extensions and I only need to run the essentials.
I also have a heavy *** chain to secure my gen set and my Glock for just in case...In desperate times, people get very stupid...
One thing I wish, is that my 10KW would be a bit more quiet. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to silence this beast?
Cheers!
I have a 10kw Generac heavy duty series that I got for the Y2K scare. I also have a xfer switch but it is not installed in the house I am currently in. Since the government moves me a lot, right now I rent. I have a house in Colorado that will get the xfer switch that I currently have boxed up in the garage.
For now, I have plenty of heavy duty extensions and I only need to run the essentials.
I also have a heavy *** chain to secure my gen set and my Glock for just in case...In desperate times, people get very stupid...
One thing I wish, is that my 10KW would be a bit more quiet. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to silence this beast?
Cheers!