Backup Generator

[Tscott]

We just had a storm here in Florida and we were without power for 3 days. I'm an engineer for a power company so as soon as the storm clears we're out riding lines a escorting contract crews around the system. Due to this I am unable to be home with the family so if anything goes wrong, my wife is on her own.

Well, this time something went wrong. Friday after we lost power I was getting the generator set up to run the fridges and a TV or 2 and the my cheap Chinese piece of **** destroyed itself. I was walking back from my shop when I heard it loading down. I turned to look and saw a large blue flash as the windings faulted. I didn't buy the generator, it was a hand me down sort of thing so I took it graciously. I had run it regularly to make sure the engine would start and run, but we had never put a load on the windings. So essentially our brand new generator died during its first use.

So with all that said, I have decided I need to get a simple durable backup generation system so that I can be sure the wife and kids are OK while I'm off putting the system back up.

What I am trying to do is research my options. I've not yet decided how much of the house I want to run off the generator. I know this affects my type of install greatly but I'd like to hear opinions on what types of setups you run. Do you have a portable units you plug the bare minimum stuff into, or do you have 220V plug in a good location to back feed the panel and trip the unwanted breakers off along with the main of course. Do run a whole house setup with an automated transfer switch?

One of my big questions is fuel. My options are gasoline, diesel, or propane and we have no access to natural gas. We've already got a 120 gallon propane tank for the water heater and stove top so it would seem like that's a good start towards a stationary backup propane generator though I am unsure how long I can run off a 120 gallon tank. I suppose I might need bigger.

Any advice would be appreciated. Let me know what you've got and what you like and don't like about your set up. As previously stated, I'm an electrical engineer for a power company so I am familiar with how to size all the equipment and all the safety considerations associated with back feeding so no need to go there.

Tom

 

[GH85Carrera]

There are hundreds of options. I look into them every so often. They range from a Generac whole house unit that automatically switches off the power going back out onto the grid, and can run on whatever fuel type you want to go with.

Those are expensive. The other end is a small Honda unit inverter style that will let you plug in the fridge and the TV but not much more than a few lights in the house.

Like everything else, it all comes down to budget. Right now I am looking towards the Honda unit that will do the job but not cost a ton.

 

[Lincolncruiser95]

I have the following setup:
1920's farmhouse with renovations in 60-70% of systems/spaces
Hot water boiler from the 80's, 5"well from the 00's.
Medium size 5000 watt, 6250 surge generac,
6position manual transfer switch from lowes, with a 20' generator cord.
Middle two circuits for well, one for boiler, one for kitchen plug for refrigerator, one for living room plugs, and two for lightly loaded lighting circuits.

Whole setup takes 5-10 minutes, including dragging the generator out, and running the cord to the transfer switch plug near the panel. Then I have heat, water, some light, some plugs for various chargers or the tv, and the fridge powered.

I can usually run 12-16 hours on a tank of gas...4-5 gallons maybe? Normally keep 14 gallons of spare fuel in the garage for reserves.

Wouldn't mind upping it to a larger diesel stand alone unit, or even a natural gas whole house, but realistically this set up, for about $900, has pretty minimal disruption in daily activities. Plus the gas or propane powered units have to consume more gas than a gasoline unit to make the same power I believe. Gas and propane around me is more expensive than gasoline.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

Tscott: Check out: www.hardydiesel.com --- have found them to be a very good source of top notch units & info.

 

[cookiemech]

I'm an electrical engineer, too, and grew tired of the repeated outages due to the policies of the utility company (they no longer properly clear rights of way, so there are LOTS of big trees hanging over the lines). And I'm not even in a remote area . . .

Solution was a 22 kW Generac/Eaton commercial generator with an automatic transfer switch. That ***** puts out 92 amps at full load, so unless I want to run a welder, compressor, range, and dryer at the same time, nothing here changes at all. Not two a/c units plus a garage a/c, not anything. I love it, and it was worth every penny.

But I have natural gas. I don't know how long a specific amount of propane lasts for comparison.

 

[38Chevy454]

I don't live in hurricane or other real major weather prone power outage area. But I do live out in the country, so it could be a while before power does come back. I just have a 5500 watt gasoline powered portable. I don't hook it up to the house circuits, instead just run some extension cords to things I want power: furnace, refrigerators, electronics, lights, etc. have propane for house heat and hot water, so all the furnace needs is 120v to run the blower and control board. Just ensure I have enough gas in cans to run generator for a while. My generator does produce 220v, but I have a plug in adapter that splits that into 120v. Don't need 220v during a power outage. Welders or air compressor can wait.

 

[HOTFR8]

What ever you do you need to test and run under load so you know all works as it should other wise the power will go off before you find the fault.

 

[Tim C]

If you have the propane already, look into dual fuel. That way gasoline or propane could be run interchangeably as the condition warranted. You'll have more options available when supplies are low. Up here in NC we're dealing with crazy flooding and loss of power. Plus still fighting the gas shortage from the pipeline bust a month ago. Several stations haven't gotten a full allotment of fuel since the shortage, and with half the stations power out the ones that have power are drying up!

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[Bwana]

I'm running a generic 7kW construction type generator (9kW starting but don't count on it) with the two 120 VAC outlets ganged together into one 220 VAC dryer type plug with neutral and ground. This plugs into a recepticle and subpanel in my shop which then back feeds the main house panel thru the shop feed.

Advantages:
1) Total cost was less than $800, I think it's a B&S engine
2) I have lots of vehicles so gasoline storage is not a problem
3) Back feed to main panel allows me to run everything in the house, i.e., fridge, lights in each room, TV, all outlets are hot (possibly for blender for example?).
4) All those fiddly automatic systems like your TV remote/decoder stay energised and don't have to reboot every time you plug them in and turn them on.
5) In-house utilities like hot water (gas fired) and heater stay on.

Disadvantages:
1) Noisy. I can't get it far enough from the house but at least I live on a forested acre so it's livable
2) The switch over is totally manual. I have a written procedure with checklist to hook it up lest I backfeed all of nrg generating capacity back thru my poor little generator
3) Hard to tell when the main power comes back on. We got up one morning and didn't hear any generators in the neighborhood, thought everybody was sleeping in. Turns out the power had come back sometime during the night but, as we're disconnected from the grid, we never saw it.
4) Can't run either the pool pump or the A/C, both of which would have been nice after Ike nailed us and we were out of power for five days (it was hot and the pool was a mess)
5) I have to pay close attention (more difficult if children/grandchildren are about) to the load on the generator. Can't leave lights or misc electrical things on or the generator might overload. I should probably get an amp meter too.

We lose power a lot in Hootin' so there's a lot of possibilities available here. If I do ever upgrade, it will be for a full house, 22kW dual fuel gas fired model with diesel backup. These also have automatic switching from the grid to local power plus an automatic test start and run every week or month (you program it). Generac I think, available from Lowe's

It looks like it's about $10,000-$12,000 drive out for for the upgrade I describe above, including installation and slab. It's definitely the way to go but you have to balance your personal level of need and security vs. how often you loose power and what is the situation/risk when you do?

 

[KRB52]

If you go with propane or dual fuel (gas/propane) it may be a good idea to get one or two 100lb tanks for the generator and leave the other tank for the stove and water heater. You don't want to run all three off of one tank and run it out. The family would have no power, no hot water and no way to cook. Not a happy experience. Another option would be to have the propane provider provide you with a larger tank (just remember a 100lb tank can be moved about by one person without too much difficulty. If it runs out, you might be able to get it filled at a station. The larger tanks are too heavy to move easily.)

Take a look at the Lister-type diesels. Supposedly, they last forever (only turn like 650 rpm), are easy to work on ("simple hand tools") and are used world-wide in remote third-world countries. I've never tried one, just read about them.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There are a few questions you have to answer:

1. Is whole house A/C important ?
2. Is your wife NOT capable of hauling out a modest sized (3kw) generator plugging it in, firing it up and flipping a few breakers.

If YES to either, you have no choice but to install a whole house system with an automatic transfer switch. If you go this way, you had better at least double your propane storage.

If NO to both, the answer is set up one room (that can be blocked off from the rest of the house) with a window A/C unit and a TV with a feed from an outdoor antenna. Then install a generator interlock kit in your load center.

A 3,000-3,500W 120V inverter generator will run these items, plus a few lights and your refrigerator. You might have to shutdown the A/C to run your microwave. Buy an inverter generator. You should have about 50 gallons of fresh fuel on hand before any storm arrives (rotate this out after power is restored).

It would be better to put a LP conversion on your generator but not all inverter generators have kits available. Larger non-inverter generator are LOUD !

 

[Tscott]

I am concerned with fuel storage. I like the rugged durability of stone simple Diesel engines but I'm not sure how much fuel I can realistically keep on hand without it going bad. I do have a tractor and a diesel truck so if I could get fuel delivered I could keep it in bulk and probably rotate through it but I have a feeling that the liability of storing 500 gallons of fuel might be a problem especially if I sprung a leak. Propane is appealing but I agree we would probably need a bigger tank or at least another tank to compliment the existing one.

In an ideal world I would like to run the the whole house including the AC but realistically it would probably be cheaper to buy a smaller generator and keep a window AC on hand should the need arise.

Could the wife wheel out a generator, plug it in and trip the proper breakers? Probably if I gave her printed detailed instructions with pictures. Truthfully though I think it's probably better to have it as automated as possible for my peace of mind.


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[theoldwizard1]

Could the wife wheel out a generator, plug it in and trip the proper breakers? Probably if I gave her printed detailed instructions with pictures. Truthfully though I think it's probably better to have it as automated as possible for my peace of mind.

All it cost is MONEY !! Go whole house with automatic transfer. (I hope you worked a lot of OT !)

Install a second 250 gallon LP tank. 500 would be better.

 

[matt_i]

I was fascinated by the Listeroid diesel concept, read a few detailed articles on applying them to backup generation, but at the end of the day, its a mechanically governed thing to set the cyclic rate on the generator. Not my idea of fun to be constantly messing with it.

I have a tractor, 50hp (was in new condition in the 1950s, I'm surely less), but a PTO generator seemed interesting...then having to drag out cables, swap implements as I usually carry a plow or box blade, and back to the mechanically governed engine.

The easiest for someone non-technical is a hardwired stationary setup that's always ready to go, follow procedure to flip switches and slide interlock panels is something fairly easy with an illustrated procedure. Even if its a manual transfer.

Gaseous fuels (LPG, NG) also have the advantage of always being ready with no liquid fuel issues (staleness, gum, spillage into surfacewater).

The whole house auto transfer switch seemed to be the highest priced and also easiest to switch over...automatic...on NG it self-exercises weekly. I realized I couldn't power the entire house as well as heat it, due to undersize in the NG line, so I'd have to settle for a partial load (likely meaning no AC) and eventually I deemed it not a spending priority...

Mostly due to: I have pretty good power reliability (lost about 3x in 6 years, never more than 24hr max). I keep some sealed 5gal jugs of water around in case of issues due to well water. That's just my research if it helps.

 

[marinusdees]

We just had a storm here in Florida and we were without power for 3 days. I'm an engineer for a power company so as soon as the storm clears we're out riding lines a escorting contract crews around the system. Due to this I am unable to be home with the family so if anything goes wrong, my wife is on her own.

Well, this time something went wrong. Friday after we lost power I was getting the generator set up to run the fridges and a TV or 2 and the my cheap Chinese piece of **** destroyed itself. I was walking back from my shop when I heard it loading down. I turned to look and saw a large blue flash as the windings faulted. I didn't buy the generator, it was a hand me down sort of thing so I took it graciously. I had run it regularly to make sure the engine would start and run, but we had never put a load on the windings. So essentially our brand new generator died during its first use.

So with all that said, I have decided I need to get a simple durable backup generation system so that I can be sure the wife and kids are OK while I'm off putting the system back up.

What I am trying to do is research my options. I've not yet decided how much of the house I want to run off the generator. I know this affects my type of install greatly but I'd like to hear opinions on what types of setups you run. Do you have a portable units you plug the bare minimum stuff into, or do you have 220V plug in a good location to back feed the panel and trip the unwanted breakers off along with the main of course. Do run a whole house setup with an automated transfer switch?

One of my big questions is fuel. My options are gasoline, diesel, or propane and we have no access to natural gas. We've already got a 120 gallon propane tank for the water heater and stove top so it would seem like that's a good start towards a stationary backup propane generator though I am unsure how long I can run off a 120 gallon tank. I suppose I might need bigger.

Any advice would be appreciated. Let me know what you've got and what you like and don't like about your set up. As previously stated, I'm an electrical engineer for a power company so I am familiar with how to size all the equipment and all the safety considerations associated with back feeding so no need to go there.

Tom

Where I live, backfeeding a panel vs a transfer switch is illegal. Should be obvious why if you are an engineer. I have an 8000 watt generator with a manual transfer switch. 11 hp gasoline electric start Briggs. On casters, roll out of garage, jump start from car if necessary. Run the whole house, not electric oven, dryer, welder, or compressor. Natural gas, which I have, I have investigated, would be an easy conversion and what I would use if starting over. Noisy, I shut it down at 10 PM, don't start before 7 AM. I have had it for 20+ years and only start it when needed, knock on wood. Bought new from Norther Hydraulics, now Norther Tool.

 

[homebuilt burner]

After reading through this tread, I feel very blessed. 20 years I this house, I have a 4000 watt generator never HAD to hook it up yet. A couple months ago we lost power for a couple of hours, but the beer in the frig was still cold. And we don't have little kids around anymore,so we could get by a couple days without power.

My parents farm, they have a 35kw generator with a manual transfer switch. We always make sure to keep a large enough tractor plugged in all winter with anti gel in the fuel. Power goes out, hook the tractor pto and flip the transfer switch and the whole farm lights up. As far as adjusting for frequency, we only had to do that on start up then good to go for the few hours we needed electricity. Then shut the tractor down until we needed electric again in the evening. Used it maybe once every 5 years.

I see you're in Fla. diesel really stays stabile for a very long time, and geling isn't an issue for you. That is the direction I would go. An automatic switch is nice but a manual is very simple as well.

 

[east_tn_emc]

Check out the military surplus generators......I have a MEP-003 diesel 10kw....runs at 1800 rpm and is good for about 13kw all day long. It is built like a Sherman tank.

 

[gearhead1]

+1 on a used military generator, that will be my next one. Diesel is the way to go for me. (FYI on a Diesel engine set up for a generator, they try to get as close to isochronous governing as possible such that the speed is constant regardless of load. Easier to do on a diesel in my opinion. Even easier on an electronic controlled diesel, but I prefer the mechanical systems so I can work on them.)

I turn the main off, then back feed the panel. Mechanical engineer, but know enough about electrical to do this the right way and safely. I have a 8k I bought from Northern Tool a few months after Fran hit 20 years ago. I also usually have to work through these storms also,so I made instructions and laminated it for my wife. I put a 50 amp receptacle below the panel outside. I intentionally specified a meter panel with a main breaker for that reason.

At the old house, I backfed through the garage panel so the noise is away from the house. I will do the same here once the shop is built.

My thought for sizing is that I need to run the well pump, refrigerator, freezer, lights, and fans. I have propane heat, and can also use kerosene heaters for heat. I have a propane hot water heater. I don't need AC, but I can run fans. Not running an AC or heat pump significantly reduces the size of the generator. I could put a window AC unit in a small room and still get by with an 8kw generator. I just wouldn't run it all at once. Turn off the breakers to the freezer and refrigerator and run lights, electric hot water heater, and well pump. When done bathing turn those breakers off and turn the freezer and refrigerator back on. If your wife can understand this, somewhere around 8kw should work.

 

[432bullet]

Generic whole house propane. We have ice storms knock out power for several days in our area. I installed a generic unit 15 yrs ago and never looked back. I have replace the battery 2 times and changed oil, that has been the only maintenance I have to do in that time.

 

[rrangus]

I am running a Winco 15KW w/ B&S Vanguard engine, automatic transfer on LPG. About 3.0 gallons per hour of propane at max load.

When I installed it I was away from home for days at a time and wanted to be sure that the refrigerator and freezer stayed cold. I am heating and cooling a 1,500 sq ft house, and it will run everything in the house. My calculated max theoretical load is about 12.8kw. Continuous duty you should not run your generators over 90% capacity if you expect them to live a long time.

I have bought, sold, installed generators from 2.5kw to 850kw over the years. If you step up and buy a generator, buy a good one from a reputable dealer that can service it for you. I see so many generators that end up in the junk pile because there is not a servicing dealer or parts not available.

No I do not sell generators anymore, but just giving a piece of advice.

 

[G-ManBart]

I am concerned with fuel storage. I like the rugged durability of stone simple Diesel engines but I'm not sure how much fuel I can realistically keep on hand without it going bad. I do have a tractor and a diesel truck so if I could get fuel delivered I could keep it in bulk and probably rotate through it but I have a feeling that the liability of storing 500 gallons of fuel might be a problem especially if I sprung a leak. Propane is appealing but I agree we would probably need a bigger tank or at least another tank to compliment the existing one.

In an ideal world I would like to run the the whole house including the AC but realistically it would probably be cheaper to buy a smaller generator and keep a window AC on hand should the need arise.

Could the wife wheel out a generator, plug it in and trip the proper breakers? Probably if I gave her printed detailed instructions with pictures. Truthfully though I think it's probably better to have it as automated as possible for my peace of mind.


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I wouldn't worry a bit about diesel going bad. If the tank is clean when you start, and you treat the fuel with something like Power Service diesel additive, it will last a very long time, and if you use some of it during the year for your tractor and truck, you'll be replacing enough periodically that it's a total non-factor.

I'm sort of in the same boat...I'm frequently not home when the power goes out, and my wife works from home, so we really needed a generator. There was no way my wife would be lugging a portable generator out, hooking it up, and configuring breakers, so we went for a Generac 20Kw whole house unit that runs on natural gas with an automatic transfer switch. Every time the power goes out and the generator starts up, my wife says "best money we ever spent" and that's all I need to hear. If we didn't have natural gas I would have gone for a diesel system, but that would have been somewhat more expensive. I think we have about $7,500 in our setup.

Our neighbor across the street has a much smaller house, and relies on a portable generator. During the last power outage he lit a couple of candles, and went to the garage to get the generator out. By the time he had it up and running, his dog knocked over a candle, which lit the drapes on fire, and his bedroom was completely burned out by the time the fire department got there....the whole house was very close to going up. Luckily he was able to get a hose to the window and get some water on it pretty quickly. That, plus not having to deal with going outside in bad weather is another reason why I love the automatic standby setups.

Here's a diesel dozer starting after sitting for 20 years and they didn't add fresh fuel!

 

[Tscott]

Well, I have been busy researching all my options and currently I'm leaning towards getting a military surplus diesel generator. Either am MEP-003 or MEP-803. These are 10Kw units (probably closer to 13Kw in reality) and based on all my reading they are built like a tank and can be rebuild almost indefinitely. I may be able to run my AC off of this unit if I kill everything else, but chances are I'll be better off with a back up window AC unit in the bedroom.

My reasons for leaning towards this option are:
1. Fuel consumption. Diesel gen set should burn right at 1 gph while a similar size LP unit will be twice that.

2. Longevity of unit. The military unit is built way tougher than a consumer grade LP unit.

3. Simplicity of unit. Diesel is stone simple. Keep adding fuel and it should run forever. Electronics in the consumer gas units may make it difficult for me to service long term.

4. Fuel supply. Since I have a few different diesel power units on site I can justify keeping additional fuel on hand without risking it spoiling. I also have the option to run off kerosene if needed.

5. For long term outages, I am thinking that diesel will be easier to get than LP but I could be wrong on this.

I'll also be going with a transfer switch of some kind to simplify the operation of the unit for the wife should she need to hook it up. Chances are I will set everything up ahead of time for her but just in case I'll make it as simple as possible.

So far this is my reasoning. Tell me where I've got it wrong.

Tom

 

[Falcon67]

I see four major brands or "portable" generators at the races. Onan 7000 or better, typically in a motor home but not always, Predator 6500 - HF - cheap & LOUD, Champion 3500 & 5500 - fair noise, 5500 somewhat louder but not Predator loud and Honda 6500 - expensive, quiet enough you have to look twice. These things run for hours and/or days on end. We're on Year 3 with our Champion 3500 and it just ran from a Thursday afternoon through Saturday evening without a break at a Dallas race. Used 17 gallons of gas. AC on 90% of the time. Trailer AC pulls 20A when running. With the front part of the trailer now insulated, it will cycle at night when we're "camping".

Note on fuel - expect 1/2 the run time on Propane as on gas, not sure how that equates to lbs of propane but it was enough to make me stick with gas for what we do.

 

[marinusdees]

To repeat, where I live, backfeeding the panel is illegal. I have done it "the right way" even though I'm not an engineer. Now I have a manual transfer switch.

 

[Tscott]

Well, as usual things have gotten out of hand and I am "going big" as my wife likes to say. I have 3 meters on property. 2 of those meters are my house and my mothers house and the third is my shop. Each is metered on the respective building and they are all fed from the same distribution pole set at the entrance to the property and all from the same transformer. So my new dilemma is how to at least serve both houses during an outage.

I have a few options:

1. Buy 2 generators 1 10KW for the large house and a 5KW for the small house, and set them up at each house and leave the shop without power. The shop not having power might be an annoyance but chances are I won't be home to use it anyway.

2. Buy 1 generator, and set it up at the main house leaving the other 2 offline until the power is restored. This one will mean we all share a house during an outage. This could be rough since this last storm we had the wifes and my family there before we lost power.

3. (This is the crazy one) Buy 1 larger generator, probably around 20Kw+ and set it up in a shed near the existing distribution pole. I will then build a new rack containing 3 meter sockets and 3 transfer switches. I can then retire the existing meters on the buildings leaving them to be fed from the 2 meters at the generator house. I can then intercept the existing services running to each house and use them to feed from the meter rack back to the houses and have the utility install new services to these 3 meters. This will centralize my power needs allowing the use of my single larger generator. This is the best situation as far as powering everything and minimizing maintenance however, the generator will be much more expensive and the installation will be much more involved.

I really like the idea of option 3 but I feel like that is crazy to do all that work just to avoid a power outage that happens maybe once a year. Though I do like the idea of being able to at least partially run the whole farm should a long term outage occur.

Am I nuts? I have a habit of designing grand plans, though usually they work out but end up being so much work.

Tom

 

[gearhead1]

To repeat, where I live, backfeeding the panel is illegal. I have done it "the right way" even though I'm not an engineer. Now I have a manual transfer switch.

To each their own. It's my panel, my house, my wiring, and my generator. As long as I don't back feed the line nobody is going to know. I'm so far off the road, nobody is coming down the driveway to check as my supply line is underground.

A limitation with transfer switches is that you're limited on number of circuits. When I backfeed, I have all the circuits in the panel at my disposal.

 

[CJ7VFR]

...A limitation with transfer switches is that you're limited on number of circuits. When I backfeed, I have all the circuits in the panel at my disposal.

You can backfeed your panel if you use an Interlock kit, if that was not mentioned already. They make them for just about every type and manufacturer of panels, and you can get them for a very reasonable price.

The interlock kits allow you to run almost anything in your home if you keep track of what breakers are on and off. You have to turn the breakers off and then turn on the ones you want to power via your generator so you don't overload it. Some people are good with that, and some are not.

I would have went this route if it was not for my wife being so afraid of the load center in our house. She is deathly afraid to even open the door on the main panel because, as she puts it, she "doesn't want that electricity to get me".

So for me, my only choice was a 10 circuit manual transfer switch setup. My wife knows how to get the generator out of our shed, wheel it over near the power inlet box, hook up the cord, gas up and start the generator, and then go into the basement and flip the 10 switches on the transfer switch. She then has heat, the well working for hot and cold water, septic, sump pump, computer with internet, TV, phone, both refrigerators, a toaster oven, coffee maker, and one bathroom with exhaust fan. That is enough to be able to stay in our home during any power failure.

I told her that all that stuff she did to get the generator hooked up and running was more work than what an Interlock kit would involve, but no, she refused to have anything to do with it. So I had to have something setup that she was comfortable using, and the manual transfer switch was it.

Jim

 

[mnoeltne]

I'm going to go with a whole house automatic setup in a year or two. My wife doesn't have enough ooomph to pull start the generator.

Does natural gas usually stay on even if the power is out? I realize that an earthquake could break pipes, but I'm talking about blizzards, and other more normal power outages.

I'm thinking NG just to keep things simple, but I could put a decent size propane tank in the back yard if I had to.

 

[gearhead1]

You can backfeed your panel if you use an Interlock kit, if that was not mentioned already. They make them for just about every type and manufacturer of panels, and you can get them for a very reasonable price.

The interlock kits allow you to run almost anything in your home if you keep track of what breakers are on and off. You have to turn the breakers off and then turn on the ones you want to power via your generator so you don't overload it. Some people are good with that, and some are not.

Jim

Thanks for posting! I did not know the interlock existed! Perfect! Back feeding is legal! I knew back feeding was electrically safe, the biggest issue is shutting off the main so you don't backfeed the main line zapping the lineman repairing the line, or worse the power comes on while the generator is connected to it. This just forces you to shut the main off in order to use the backfeed breaker. Why didn't I think of this!

 

[ThufirHawit]

I am concerned with fuel storage. I like the rugged durability of stone simple Diesel engines but I'm not sure how much fuel I can realistically keep on hand without it going bad. I do have a tractor and a diesel truck so if I could get fuel delivered I could keep it in bulk and probably rotate through it but I have a feeling that the liability of storing 500 gallons of fuel might be a problem especially if I sprung a leak. Propane is appealing but I agree we would probably need a bigger tank or at least another tank to compliment the existing one.

In an ideal world I would like to run the the whole house including the AC but realistically it would probably be cheaper to buy a smaller generator and keep a window AC on hand should the need arise.

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Although I've had portable Gas generators in the past, after buying a couple of diesel trucks, I'm on the verge of purchasing a Diesel Generator.
Looking at the fuel consumption of the 10kW, it seems to be using between .5 to 1 gal/hr and many have options for 60, 100, or 300 gal single or double walled tanks.

I've seen United Rentals sell their diesel generators (15kW-30kW) for $7k-$13k

I've also seen at Hardy Diesel and Central Maine Diesel the Perkins Diesel Engine gensets are very reasonable for both Prime and Backup power.

Again, I only have experience in Truck diesel, but, will be buying one of these in the coming months for Prime power.

Just some thoughts.

 

[slip knot]

I run the Miller welder as my genset. the wife has enough sense to plug individual items in and turn the key. its not the most efficient option but it works and I'm not paying for an additional upkeep item. The Miller runs @ 1 gallon/hour but we don't run it continuously. Start it every 2-3 hours and let the fridges and freezers catch up. when they cycle off cut the genny off. Can run several days on 5 gallons of fuel.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have a Coleman 5000W/6250surge that I've had for over 10 years, built it myself in a class for 200 bucks. Recently I paid a company 700 bucks to change the box on the outside of my house to a generator interlock type and it now runs my whole house. Nice to have my furnace when I lose power when it's 10 degrees out. I had also before that recently converted my fireplace to a flueless gas-log unit, which keeps the house at a constant 65 degrees with nothing else. I was going to spend the big bucks for the stand-by unit, but the wife didn't think it necessary. So I still pull the old unit out of the garage, but for a 900 dollar investment, it does a pretty good job. Christmas and Easter both for a few days each this past year.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Thanks for posting! I did not know the interlock existed! Perfect! Back feeding is legal! I knew back feeding was electrically safe, the biggest issue is shutting off the main so you don't backfeed the main line zapping the lineman repairing the line, or worse the power comes on while the generator is connected to it. This just forces you to shut the main off in order to use the backfeed breaker. Why didn't I think of this!

With the interlock kit, as you said, there is no way to push generator power back up to a linesman on a pole because the main breaker will never be on when you are using the interlock to backfeed the panel with your generator.

The interlock kit is a very ingenious device. It is just a few pieces of bent sheet metal, a 30 amp double pole breaker, and some hardware to install it.

But what it does is keep people from sending generator power up the lines to a pole and killing someone. It also keeps you from being able to run utility power and generator power to your panel at the same time.

Here is a picture of an interlock kit on a Siemens panel. Nothing really to it. Notice that you can't turn on the double pole breaker to get power from the generator until you turn off the main and slide the sheet metal bracket to the left. Once you do that, and flip the double pole generator breaker to the on position, the main breaker is locked out, and until you turn off the breaker for the generator and move the sheet metal bracket back, you can't accidently flip up the main breaker to get back to utility power.

Jim

 

[Handyfarmer]

I ended up buying a 30kw, generator head off a blown generator, and mounted a older engine I had over hauled off a combine, only ran the combine less than 50 hours after the over haul, on the head, it was gas, I really had a problem keeping gas fresh, but found out if one put it in 55 gallon drums and some PRI-G and fill 90% and seal it tight one can keep it good for a few years, but after loosing a few hundred gallons of fuel over the years, I found a fork lift LP conversion kit, and now have a 1000 gallon tank for the generator shed, (back in 1977 we had an ice storm and took out power poles for a 50 mile x 25 mile area around here, we were with out power for over 30 days, cost my dad over 300 gallons in gasoline,

after I moved out I bought and set up the 30 kw unit, and keep the old 3750 watt unit and converted it as well to LP, I have a small manual transfer switch in the generator shed, to switch between generators, and a larger manual transfer switch on the power distribution pole for the farm, so I can power both shops and the house the well and barn and other live stock buildings, if needed, both generators are duel fuel gasoline and LP,


now all that said my reason for the 30 kw was to be able to run the welder in the shop as it was my largest single load I had,

(age, time and experience is a great teacher)

about 5 years ago I picked up a engine drive welder for the farm, and have it on the service truck, use it for welding and power away from the buildings for about 5 years, it was used and had 4000 hours on it, this spring the engine blew and the cost of parts or new engine was about 2/3's of a new unit, so I bought a new engine drive welder, 10,000 watts AC 240/120 volt power, 250 amp AC,DC, welder, for needed project,

in hind site if I would have bought the engine drive welder 20 years ago, (NEW), or nearly new, most likely I would have never messed with the other generators or the building the generator shed, I would have just parked the truck besides the power pole and plugged in to the welder and flipped the transfer switch, the welder is used nearly weekly in the scope of the farm, so the engine is already to go,

The cost in the long run would have been much less, now I have three working generators, and only use one on any regular bases,

(the 30 kw does put out three phase, and have some three phase on the place, so that is nice, but before I got three phase power on the farm, I ran a rotatory converter so I could still use a single phase generator and the rotatory converter and run my three phase loads if needed,

but if I was doing it all again I would buy the engine driven welder/generator. and a whole place manual transfer switch,