Backup Power (portable generator) advice

[Kaoskido]

Seeking some advice on getting a backup generator for my house-

I recently had my service panel upgraded - 200amps as well as I had a 60amp service panel installed in my attached garage along with a HyperHeat Ductless Mini-Split and then a whole house HeatPump - so I am about $15k into this project. I should caveat that my house is all electric heat for the main floor (HeatPump when temps allow) and part of my basement - other part of my family room in the basement has a natural gas fireplace.

I want to round out with a minimal cost to get some back up generator support to run select circuits for long power outages.

My electrician quoted me about $2200 to do a 50amp generator set up. That does not include the generator cost.

However, in speaking to the state electrical inspector he said most likely I could do it for cheaper. He said something about Square D makes some sort of set up for a portable generator to back feed select circuits in the house and also would do a lock out of the main power so that either mains is on or backup generator but never both. No need for an additional panel for the backup generator.

Wondering if anyone has experience with this and what it all entails. I would like to go back to the electrical to get something scheduled but really need to do the bare minimum as my piggy bank is almost dry.

 

[yatg]

Maybe this? Only works with a QO main panel.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...oor-Generator-Interlock-Kit-QOCGK2C/203046553

I have one but never installed it so no direct experience.

 

[fitter30]

I've got a simular setup with a outdoor propane generator 7kw with inlet plug and use a extension cord from generator to house. Generator stays in the garage till needed. Transfer panel with a subpanel to give me the flexibility to transfer power from device to another if needed. Well pump, fridge, a 5k window unit for a bedroom kept in a closet, water heater and lights are connected. Heat is a propane ventless fireplace.just look at amazon ebay could be cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012DHO4A4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Lassen Forge]

Disclaimer - if you end up doing damage or whatnot from this it's on you. Do your research first...

We actually had a lockout set up that involved a piece of sheet metal over the breaker switches that would keep the mains to the feed off, keep the circuits we decided we didn't want off, and allowed the breakers on the rest to act like normal. We then put a feed from our generator into a 220 plug wired through a breaker that fed the bus bars (installed by a local electrician) and the breaker to that was also controlled by the same sheet metal cover. To energize it, you had to have the main breaker off.

Stole the idea from a disaster preparedness site. We now have a hardwired generator with an automatic switch, but back then when we were poor, it worked.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Disclaimer - if you end up doing damage or whatnot from this it's on you. Do your research first...

We actually had a lockout set up that involved a piece of sheet metal over the breaker switches that would keep the mains to the feed off, keep the circuits we decided we didn't want off, and allowed the breakers on the rest to act like normal. We then put a feed from our generator into a 220 plug wired through a breaker that fed the bus bars (installed by a local electrician) and the breaker to that was also controlled by the same sheet metal cover. To energize it, you had to have the main breaker off.

Stole the idea from a disaster preparedness site. We now have a hardwired generator with an automatic switch, but back then when we were poor, it worked.

Thats called an interlock...

 

[yeldogt]

Too bad you did not do it as part of the project.

You need to figure out if you want to do the whole house -- and if you want to have it as a manual or auto set up.

too many possibilities ....

If auto -- the introduction of larger air cooled units makes doing the whole house the way to go.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I started with a 5kW Coleman and suicide cord for $50 off Craigslist. I guess it depends on risk tolerance vs. your piggy bank.

That thing was a 10hp Tecumseh motor. Loud as F and you needed to change the oil as often as you filled it with gasoline. Second winter I found a flywheel and starter for cheap/free and it went on from there. Eventually it ended with a 19kW Kohler genset.

 

[slow]

I would think a generator interlock with a panel upgrade.would be $400 or so, 2200 seems CRAZY expensive for. $50 interlock, $20 Breaker and $60 inlet.

 

[Kaoskido]

So I talked to the electrician about the interlock and he priced it out at $290

The other price at $2200 was for a homelink 50amp 16 circuit manual transfer switch and a whole home service (not sure what that even is).....$230 generator cord, etc. Basically everything needed minus the generator.


Interlock is the cheapest route to go but I did find at Home Depot the Generlink which if approved by the utility company they will most likely install it since it goes into the meter box. Its about $700-900 but no need for the electrician and most likely another inspection permit.

The only thing I would be on the fence is about the Generlink failing where as with the Interlock its as basic as can be -

Anyone have experience with the Generlink ?

 

[Kaoskido]

Ha - Electrician just told me that our utility company does not allow the Generlink..... so an interlock it will be......

That said - any suggestions for a decent - don't break the bank generator or are they all the same to some degree?

I would say the generator use for me will be a "true emergency" and most likely never happens so that said it will sit in my storage shed with little to no use waiting for a rainy day situation.

 

[dcg9381]

I would think a generator interlock with a panel upgrade.would be $400 or so, 2200 seems CRAZY expensive for. $50 interlock, $20 Breaker and $60 inlet.

Agree. The way to do this with a "portable" generator is an interlock and a 50A generator feed. Add a breaker. I'm thinking about $300 in parts + wire. If your panel is exterior on the home, any electrician can set this up in an hour or two.

This assumes your main is not full and that stuff can be moved around (if necessary) for the interlock kit.

Watch what generator you get - make sure it's true 50A capable and has the appropriate connection. You're looking for a 12kw generator when running - that's pretty big.

With an interlock kit, you self-balance the loads.

 

[Bretny]

First i think you should really look into if 50a is going to be enough with a full electric house. Heat can be real important when its cold. For instance 50a at 240 is only a 12,000w generator.

 

[slow]

Really consider what you want to power, essentials or everything. and most importantly can you keep it fueled. I sold my 15kw generac portable, and now have a 2000 watt honda. My 15kw generac took 36 gallons of fuel a day, no way to keep it fueled. My 2000 watt honda will run for days on a 5 gallon gas can, but I am not running everything, just the refrigerator, some phone chargers, a 12 volt battery charger (to run an inverter when the generator is off) My preparedness is just for post hurricane power outages.

 

[anythingyoucanimagine]

I mentioned I started with a little 5kW Coleman and suicide cord. It went from that to two 5kW portable generators. The final straw for us was fuel. Fuel was a pain in the ***.

Well, the combination of fuel and needing to be home (to fill with fuel and no auto tx switch, no auto start). If you are going to do a whole-home setup then hook it into whatever unlimited supply of fuel you have. We have oil heat so we got a diesel generator. With auto-delivery they try to keep our tank more than 1/2 full at all times. Means we pretty much always have about 150gal of #2 on hand at any given time. And when we aren't home it just does its thing.

Figure out if you want to do whole-home or just the essentials. Then decide if you want auto-tx and auto-start or everything manual. I've got a buddy who is a chef and does a food truck on the side. Those little Honda generators are amazing. They are quiet and run all day on very little fuel.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thats called an interlock...

A generator interlock on your main panel and an inlet plug on the side of the house is by far the least expensive installation.

HOWEVER, you are going to need a BIG generator to run a whole house heat pump ! A good HVAC/electrician can install a "soft start" on the compressor and that will help a lot.

When using a generator interlock and portable generator it is UP TO YOU to manage the load. If the heat pump is on and some one turns on the stove or the electric water heater kicks on, you will likely trip a breaker somewhere. Use the fireplace for heat, use fans to blow it around. It is not that difficult.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I mentioned I started with a little 5kW Coleman and suicide cord. It went from that to two 5kW portable generators. The final straw for us was fuel. Fuel was a pain in the ***.

I tell folks that if they are preparing for a disaster, they had better have 50 gallons of fuel on hand AND they need to "rotate" that fuel !

If your heat and major appliances are gas/propane, and if you are careful, you can run an average house on 2000W-3000W generator.

 

[Bretny]

Most people dont have the ability to hold 30gal of fuel in jugs much less rotate that fuel. Even an bunch of empty fuel jugs before the storm is better than no jugs and no fuel. Usualy theres a 1-5day warning. Before a major event that dosnt just impact a few towns.

 

[BillK]

I would say the generator use for me will be a "true emergency" and most likely never happens so that said it will sit in my storage shed with little to no use waiting for a rainy day situation.

If this is really true, and it probably is for most people, you should consider a propane powered generator or maybe diesel. Gasoline just does not like sitting around not being used. I am sure if you have been a regular on these forums you have probably seen a hundred threads on "my snow blower wouldn't start" or my mower carb is all gummed up etc. etc.

With propane you would need to have a couple of tanks filled and ready but you dont have to worry about stale gas. When you need the generator you need it now. Dont need to worry about fooling with a messed up carb from sitting.

Just a thought,

 

[theoldwizard1]

With propane you would need to have a couple of tanks filled and ready but you dont have to worry about stale gas.

20lb BBQ tank won't even last 24 hours on a 10+ hp generator. Buy a 500 gallon (or larger) fiberglass tank and bury it.

This why I tell people to switch all of their major appliances to gas/propane and have a gas/propane backup heating source. Now, you can easily get by on a 2000W-3000W generator that sips fuel. Just remember to run the carb dry every time and drain and inspect the inside of the tank at least once a year.

 

[jade97]

Honestly, you should save and invest in a properly sized whole home propane generator. Sometimes going the cheapest route is not always the best.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Honestly, you should save and invest in a properly sized whole home propane generator. Sometimes going the cheapest route is not always the best.

Everyone has a different budget they have to live with !

 

[Bretny]

I have read that as for resale value of your home a whole house generator is the worst investment you can do.

 

[Kaoskido]

I have the electrician coming tomorrow to do the install of the interlock and portable generator wiring.

I've not bought a generator yet. Been looking but have not really decided on which route to go. I don't have an option to bury a 500 gallon propane tank. I also know that gas carb die easily if not taken care of .... hence the fact that I've replaced my snow blower carb three times in the last few years.

My question is about the outside connection that then goes to the generator... is there a standard plug (I'm not talking about the 110v outlets on the generator) for this and if so what is it called?

Does it vary based upon the type of generator?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The plug on the cordage will vary based on generator output AND available receptacles on the generator.

Without knowing the generator output, it will be hard for your electrician to properly size the circuit.

 

[Bretny]

If your replacing the carb on a snowblower 3x in a few years tou should be taking a look at your methods of fuel stabilization and proper storage.

 

[ddurrett896]

I also know that gas carb die easily if not taken care of .... hence the fact that I've replaced my snow blower carb three times in the last few years.

use ethanol free gas.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

[Kaoskido]

So I have the interlock installed but shame on me for not having a deeper conversation about the generator with the electrician.... They had planned for a 30amp and after discussing with them and the fact I have lots of electric here given I have electric heaters throughout my house they said to go with the 50amp service - not sure why that was not suggested from the get go but no harm no foul so they have to come back because they didn't have the receptacle for 50amps.

Now I need to hunt down a reasonably priced generator that has the 50amp output.

Any suggestions on brands to look into?

 

[gayler]

A generator interlock on your main panel and an inlet plug on the side of the house is by far the least expensive installation.

HOWEVER, you are going to need a BIG generator to run a whole house heat pump ! A good HVAC/electrician can install a "soft start" on the compressor and that will help a lot.

When using a generator interlock and portable generator it is UP TO YOU to manage the load. If the heat pump is on and some one turns on the stove or the electric water heater kicks on, you will likely trip a breaker somewhere. Use the fireplace for heat, use fans to blow it around. It is not that difficult.

Would something like this be a good choice?

 

[Kaoskido]

Right now I am leaning towards this generator:

DuroMax XP10000E Gas Powered Portable Generator, Blue and Black

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018C6BDE/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I am not sure about the dual fuel given I would have to buy large propane tanks and have them on hand and I am not sure where I'd store them, etc.

 

[Kaoskido]

Or:
Westinghouse WGen9500 Heavy Duty Portable Generator - 9500 Rated Watts & 12500 Peak Watts - Gas Powered - Electric Start - Transfer Switch & RV Ready - CARB Compliant

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYWDS7D/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Kaoskido]

Or:
Westinghouse WGen9500 Heavy Duty Portable Generator - 9500 Rated Watts & 12500 Peak Watts - Gas Powered - Electric Start - Transfer Switch & RV Ready - CARB Compliant

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYWDS7D/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[bear5759]

Kaoskido - your location hasn't been mentioned. Makes a big difference on heating demand. Really think about fuel demand for the size generator you're looking at.

 

[Kaoskido]

Kaoskido - your location hasn't been mentioned. Makes a big difference on heating demand. Really think about fuel demand for the size generator you're looking at.

I'm in SW Minnesota - I've never experienced any long power outage before but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

My basement family room has a gas fireplace with a simple 110v blower. the rest of my house is all electric heat - I recently had a Heat Pump installed but I've been told that is only good down to freezing. So when below freezing I switch over to my baseboard heaters.

I'm not expecting to power the entire house off of a portable generator.

 

[Kaoskido]

I called Generac and they were telling me about something that some/most open framed portable generators do not emit clean electric and therefore items with motherboards or sensitive electronic devices should not be used under generator power....

Now that is something to think about.... tried selling me some $3k generator.

 

[gsmith22]

similar situation here and have been through all the options. I have all electric house too, just had heat pumps installed for heat and cooling (ground source), heat pump hot water heater, elec oven and range, elec dryer. You are really going to have to decide what you want to keep on. Generally speaking, portable gas generators will be in the 6000 to 8000 Watt range. At 8000 Watts, that means 30Amps for 240V powered equipment (which is why they had the 30Amp stuff with them). I have never seen a 12000 Watt portable generator. Doesn't mean they don't exist but it must be just barely portable. At 12000 Watts, that means 50Amps for 240V equipment. Even with the 50Amp, you won't be able to have your heat pumps, oven, range, dryer powered even by themselves. Forget your electric resistance heat. Every 5kva of electric resistance heat is 21Amps (at 240V) by itself. I can't imagine you don't have 2 or 3 times that amount in your house. If you are balking at a $3k generator, then you don't want to know what the geneartor to power your heat pumps and/or elec resistance heat costs.

On an 8000 Watt portable generator, you can power most lighting, some receptacles, 1 fridge, 1 freezer, a well pump and that is about it assuming you don't put all that on at the same time. Motors starting typically require a lot more current than running so if you happen to have the fridge, freezer, or well pump on with some lights, you could very well be maxed out or blow the breaker on the generator. Want to do more than that and you need to have fixed mounted natural gas, propane, or diesel generator set.

I have had no problem running computers on power from a 25 year old 7000 Watt portable generator but YMMV. Generac's concern isn't a lie but I also don't know how critical it is either. Maybe the cheapest portable generator from China will have the problem, not sure.

 

[Kaoskido]

I ended up buying the Champion 9,200-Watt Gasoline Powered Electric Start Portable Generator from HomeDepot.

 

[mike93lx]

I called Generac and they were telling me about something that some/most open framed portable generators do not emit clean electric and therefore items with motherboards or sensitive electronic devices should not be used under generator power....

Now that is something to think about.... tried selling me some $3k generator.

That is generally true.

An inverter generator is safest for sensitive electronics