Backyard firepit propane line question

[48Dodge]

I am building a small backyard fire pit and I would like to make it run off of propane so my neighbors don't complain, like they do about my BBQ..... and everything else. I would like to bury the line and put some flagstones on top of the small outdoor patio area.

I have natural gas but I am not interested in the costs/permits/etc and the meter is on the opposite side of the house. I don't think we will use the pit much so I decided to try to make this as cheap as possible, so I came to the conclusion a 20# propane cylinder would be the easiest way to go. I have a 12 foot braided propane hose and plenty of PVC pipe, so I decided since it was an 8ft run, I would just run through the PVC with a riser on both sides with 1- 90 and 1 -45 on it, similar to an old ship air vent so water cant get inside. I assume I am supposed to use copper or something like the CSST, but I am not sure If I need a license/permit to install that kind of line. I live in Oregon, and not able to find much info the codes.

I already made the PVC pipes and fished the hose through, it seems ok, but I have a feeling its not a good idea. I am worried about condensation build up and hose deterioration.

I had posted this in the introduction area because it was my first post, but I am not sure If its supposed to be there, so here it is.

Any help, roasting, reprimanding all welcomed

 

[motorcycle79]

I made a propane one out of a quick couple hose kit off of amazon. Im not sure how much flame you’re looking for but 20# might not vapor fast enough. I ended up using a 100# tank and buried the hose 20-30’

 

[48Dodge]

I made a propane one out of a quick couple hose kit off of amazon. Im not sure how much flame you’re looking for but 20# might not vapor fast enough. I ended up using a 100# tank and buried the hose 20-30’

Was it a regular braided or rubber hose? and did you put it in PVC or Conduit? Thanks for the reply, I was wondering about the 20# flame height.

 

[motorcycle79]

DOZYANT 12 feet Low Pressure Propane Quick-Connect Hose, RV Quick Connect Propane Hose, Quick Disconnect Propane Hose Extension - 1/4” Safety Shutoff Valve & Male Full Flow Plug for RVs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XK43NL3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

in the 20‘ length no conduit right in the dirt

i had a regulator but ended up doing it by hand With tank valve.

 

[Firebrick43]

If it’s in the ground it’s copper tubing with 45 degree flare fittings or PE gas pipe with risers. Hose in pvc is not allowed. Nor is CSST buried. .

It has to be buried at least 12”

The code is NFPA 58

Rego makes a nice service guide that contains most types of common installations, sizing, acceptable materials, and most importantly clearances.

https://www.regoproducts.com/PDFs/L-545_Servicemans_Manual.pdf

 

[dcg9381]

I made a propane one out of a quick couple hose kit off of amazon. Im not sure how much flame you’re looking for but 20# might not vapor fast enough. I ended up using a 100# tank and buried the hose 20-30’

I've got 100lb tanks also. The issue with them is that they are "too small" for our local propane company to enough to fill. And they're a real beeotch for me to handle individually once full. There's a 250 lb option here, that seems "local company" fill-able.

Isn't flame really a function of the regulator capacity? If you draw enough, you can freeze out smaller tanks, but I've only seen that happen when I'm running a 10KW+ generator on a cold day.

 

[jskicet]

Ran mine through PVC. It's open on both ends so it can breath. Not sure why that would be an issue. The ends are covered by the fire pit on one end the faux log tank cover on the other.

 

[ipgenie]

Ours is PE gas pipe with risers running to the the firepit and grill off one shared regulator and buried 40' or so to a large above ground tank. Probably didn't cost any more than conduit + hose and no worries about anything failing.

 

[Firebrick43]

I've got 100lb tanks also. The issue with them is that they are "too small" for our local propane company to enough to fill. And they're a real beeotch for me to handle individually once full. There's a 250 lb option here, that seems "local company" fill-able.

Isn't flame really a function of the regulator capacity? If you draw enough, you can freeze out smaller tanks, but I've only seen that happen when I'm running a 10KW+ generator on a cold day.

100 lbs "tanks" are DOT bottles. Anything under 200lbs MUST be refilled by weight on a scale by DOT regulations. They also need to be replaced or requalified every 12 years.

Ran mine through PVC. It's open on both ends so it can breath. Not sure why that would be an issue. The ends are covered by the fire pit on one end the faux log tank cover on the other.

NFPA 58-2.10.12 Hose shall be permitted to be used on the low-pressure side of regulators to connect to other than domestic and commercial appliances as follows: (a) The appliance connected shall be of a portable type. (b) For use inside buildings, the hose shall be of a minimum length, not exceeding 6 ft (1.8 m) [except as provided in 3-4.2.3(b), and shall not extend from one room to another nor pass through any partitions, walls, ceilings, or floors 58–34 LIQUEFIED PETROLEUM GAS CODE 1998 Edition (except as provided in 3-4.3.7). It shall not be concealed from view or used in concealed locations. For use outside buildings, hose length shall be permitted to exceed 6 ft (1.8 m) but shall be kept as short as practical. (c) Hose shall be securely connected to the appliance. The use of rubber slip ends shall not be permitted. (d) A shutoff valve shall be provided in the piping immediately upstream of the inlet connection of the hose. Where more than one such appliance shutoff is located near another, precautions shall be taken to prevent operation of the wrong valve. (e) Hose used for connecting appliances to wall or other outlets shall be protected against physical damage.

So its pretty much against standards to do so and a generally bad idea, especially when Gas PE pipe with risers and copper tubing are available and much longer lasting. Hoses on continuously pressurized systems in general are bad ideas. Quite a few calls for gas leaks is someone's older gas grill with a leaking old hose and the tank on in the garage.

I don't have an online version of the current NFPA and my book is not with me in Wisconsin at the moment. Above is 1998

 

[Metal-Marc]

Ran mine through PVC.

I don't know about that, but I sure could spend lots of evening drinking a cold one watching a fire in that setting. No kidding, it's nice!

 

[jskicet]

100 lbs "tanks" are DOT bottles. Anything under 200lbs MUST be refilled by weight on a scale by DOT regulations. They also need to be replaced or requalified every 12 years.

NFPA 58-2.10.12 Hose shall be permitted to be used on the low-pressure side of regulators to connect to other than domestic and commercial appliances as follows: (a) The appliance connected shall be of a portable type. (b) For use inside buildings, the hose shall be of a minimum length, not exceeding 6 ft (1.8 m) [except as provided in 3-4.2.3(b), and shall not extend from one room to another nor pass through any partitions, walls, ceilings, or floors 58–34 LIQUEFIED PETROLEUM GAS CODE 1998 Edition (except as provided in 3-4.3.7). It shall not be concealed from view or used in concealed locations. For use outside buildings, hose length shall be permitted to exceed 6 ft (1.8 m) but shall be kept as short as practical. (c) Hose shall be securely connected to the appliance. The use of rubber slip ends shall not be permitted. (d) A shutoff valve shall be provided in the piping immediately upstream of the inlet connection of the hose. Where more than one such appliance shutoff is located near another, precautions shall be taken to prevent operation of the wrong valve. (e) Hose used for connecting appliances to wall or other outlets shall be protected against physical damage.

So its pretty much against standards to do so and a generally bad idea, especially when Gas PE pipe with risers and copper tubing are available and much longer lasting. Hoses on continuously pressurized systems in general are bad ideas. Quite a few calls for gas leaks is someone's older gas grill with a leaking old hose and the tank on in the garage.

I don't have an online version of the current NFPA and my book is not with me in Wisconsin at the moment. Above is 1998

The hose is not under pressure except when using. Also under the firepit is not sealed. There are several wholes on the sides where the original pipe was located that I covered with screen repair kits to keep out unwanted guests. So it breaths and will not trap gas if there was a leak. Same with the tank cover. It all is vented at all times. The gas line used is the one that came with the fire pit which is 10 ft. My thought was that it's safer than stretched on the ground to walk on or trip over. I can just pull it out at any time and replace it but being protected from the sun and weather it should last a long time.

 

[jskicet]

I don't know about that, but I sure could spend lots of evening drinking a cold one watching a fire in that setting. No kidding, it's nice!

Thanks,we are very blessed. it's quite enjoyable. Here's a pic of the view you see when out there

 

[Firebrick43]

The hose is not under pressure except when using. Also under the firepit is not sealed. There are several wholes on the sides where the original pipe was located that I covered with screen repair kits to keep out unwanted guests. So it breaths and will not trap gas if there was a leak. Same with the tank cover. It all is vented at all times. The gas line used is the one that came with the fire pit which is 10 ft. My thought was that it's safer than stretched on the ground to walk on or trip over. I can just pull it out at any time and replace it but being protected from the sun and weather it should last a long time.

It might be safer that having an hose across the ground, that is immaterial as one still can’t see/inspect it which is why the regs are written like they are.

Why have a hose across the ground except for something like camping?

Installing copper tubing or PE with risers would be safer by far and no or only a short 18” hose to the tank.

Amazing you keep trying to defend what is wrong and against regs.

Most of the regs are literally written in bold. Accidents, sometimes with horrific loss of life, cause the council to consider steps to minimize them.

Take for example the 2014 Philly food truck explosion that details are finally being released due to the case in court being finalized.

If someone had either inspected the cylinder (made in 1948) and realized it didn’t and a current inspection or even the correct valve(no relief or bleeder) or refused to fill it. U Haul filled it multiple times without taking the cylinder off the truck and using a scale.

If any of the regs were followed the two women would be alive and the other dozen people wouldn’t be be disfigured and burned.

 

[jskicet]

I appreciate your perspective, but I'm totally ok with how I installed our fire pit. The hose can be inspected when desired. It's very safe and the tank is new. It will be swapped out when it's out of date.

 

[Firebrick43]

I appreciate your perspective, but I'm totally ok with how I installed our fire pit. The hose can be inspected when desired. It's very safe and the tank is new. It will be swapped out when it's out of date.

That is ok. I can’t I force the regs especially when you’re not a customer.

The purpose was to inform the OP why it’s a bad idea when you stated “Not sure why that would be an issue.”

 

[Bill T]

Ran mine through PVC. It's open on both ends so it can breath. Not sure why that would be an issue. The ends are covered by the fire pit on one end the faux log tank cover on the other.

I don't know anything about gas codes or materials for a fire pit, but, You have a very nice spot. Congrats!

 

[Fireman X]

100 lbs "tanks" are DOT bottles. Anything under 200lbs MUST be refilled by weight on a scale by DOT regulations. They also need to be replaced or requalified every 12 years.

NFPA 58-2.10.12 Hose shall be permitted to be used on the low-pressure side of regulators to connect to other than domestic and commercial appliances as follows: (a) The appliance connected shall be of a portable type. (b) For use inside buildings, the hose shall be of a minimum length, not exceeding 6 ft (1.8 m) [except as provided in 3-4.2.3(b), and shall not extend from one room to another nor pass through any partitions, walls, ceilings, or floors 58–34 LIQUEFIED PETROLEUM GAS CODE 1998 Edition (except as provided in 3-4.3.7). It shall not be concealed from view or used in concealed locations. For use outside buildings, hose length shall be permitted to exceed 6 ft (1.8 m) but shall be kept as short as practical. (c) Hose shall be securely connected to the appliance. The use of rubber slip ends shall not be permitted. (d) A shutoff valve shall be provided in the piping immediately upstream of the inlet connection of the hose. Where more than one such appliance shutoff is located near another, precautions shall be taken to prevent operation of the wrong valve. (e) Hose used for connecting appliances to wall or other outlets shall be protected against physical damage.

So its pretty much against standards to do so and a generally bad idea, especially when Gas PE pipe with risers and copper tubing are available and much longer lasting. Hoses on continuously pressurized systems in general are bad ideas. Quite a few calls for gas leaks is someone's older gas grill with a leaking old hose and the tank on in the garage.

I don't have an online version of the current NFPA and my book is not with me in Wisconsin at the moment. Above is 1998

Sorry for reviving an old thread but Google brought me here. I'm also trying to conceal the propane line and thought putting the propane line that comes with the fire pit through pvc inside the slab out the side. The reg you point out is for indoors (a). Are you saying it also applies outside?

And assuming the concrete guy still creates a conduit in the slab, what is the general process (if any) to bring it up to code? Thanks!

 

[Firebrick43]

Sorry for reviving an old thread but Google brought me here. I'm also trying to conceal the propane line and thought putting the propane line that comes with the fire pit through pvc inside the slab out the side. The reg you point out is for indoors (a). Are you saying it also applies outside?

And assuming the concrete guy still creates a conduit in the slab, what is the general process (if any) to bring it up to code? Thanks!

It’s the low pressure side which is typically inside but not always. The reg quoted talks about both indoors and outdoors which makes a difference on allowable hose length. Keep a hose visible is required no matter inside or out.

The easiest way to make it code compliant is run a code compliant piping thru the conduit.

I would suggest using flared copper from the house and under the slab and attach it to a short post. Put a 1/4 turn shut off valve on the post or even a quick connect.

If you have the distance and btu input of the appliance I can size the line for you.

 

[Fireman X]

It’s the low pressure side which is typically inside but not always. The reg quoted talks about both indoors and outdoors which makes a difference on allowable hose length. Keep a hose visible is required no matter inside or out.

The easiest way to make it code compliant is run a code compliant piping thru the conduit.

I would suggest using flared copper from the house and under the slab and attach it to a short post. Put a 1/4 turn shut off valve on the post or even a quick connect.

If you have the distance and btu input of the appliance I can size the line for you.

Thanks - here is the fire pit (147,500 BTU)

Pottery Works 36 Inch Round Concrete Fire BowlPropane / Charcoal / Tumbled Lava Rock

Enjoy the warmth and ambiance of a fire with the Pottery Works 36" round concrete fire bowl, featuring a durable construction and a size that's perfect for smaller outdoor spaces.

www.firepitsurplus.com

And just to confirm, there isn't a solution you recommend that still connects to just a 20lb propane tank?

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks - here is the fire pit (147,500 BTU)

Pottery Works 36 Inch Round Concrete Fire BowlPropane / Charcoal / Tumbled Lava Rock

Enjoy the warmth and ambiance of a fire with the Pottery Works 36" round concrete fire bowl, featuring a durable construction and a size that's perfect for smaller outdoor spaces.

www.firepitsurplus.com

And just to confirm, there isn't a solution you recommend that still connects to just a 20lb propane tank?

There is nothing wrong with a 20lbs tank and a short hose.

Grills do it all the time. But they have short hoses and the hoses are not semi permanent installation that can’t visually be inspected before each use.



What is the resistance to running copper? It’s cheaper per foot, last decades without issue instead of having a rated life of 5 years. You can still use a grill tank with copper?

 

[Fireman X]

There is nothing wrong with a 20lbs tank and a short hose.

Grills do it all the time. But they have short hoses and the hoses are not semi permanent installation that can’t visually be inspected before each use.



What is the resistance to running copper? It’s cheaper per foot, last decades without issue instead of having a rated life of 5 years. You can still use a grill tank with copper?

I'm just trying to visualize it with the goal of not seeing the line. And I don't have a way to run a line from the house. Imagine I'm way out in a field but still governed by city rules (no wood fire pit).
I'm trying to convert the picture above to be up to code.

So do I connect a short hose from the fire pit to the pvc/copper pipe, which runs from the center through the slab to the outside of the circle, then using a quick connect on the other end of the copper pipe, plug the propane tank into it, then hide the tank under the table? Is he just missing a copper pipe running through the pvc? Or what else is required? Thank you so much for your time BTW