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Bad Breaker?

7

78SC4X4

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Apr 21, 2018
Messages
370
Location
Port Orchard Wa
I'm using AFci/GFci breakers for the lights and outlets in my shop. (So far, I have had no problems) A couple of weeks ago, I flipped the switch on for my loft lights and the breaker tripped. I reset the breaker, hit the switch again, and it tripped again. Then I left the switch on (got tired of going up and down stairs) and reset the breaker again. This time the lights stayed on.

The lights worked great for several days. Then after not using them for a couple of days, the breaker tripped again last Friday when I tried to turn them on. After a couple of resets, the lights stayed on. The lights turned off and on fine Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I did not turn them on Tuesday and then tonight (Wednesday) the breaker tripped. After two resets the lights work fine.

So, bad breaker, or could I have a little moisture or oxidation buildup over time that causes a short? Looking for thoughts before I go trouble shooting.
 
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rawen2

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Feb 26, 2021
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169
Location
High Desert of CO
First, I'm not an electrician and have zero experience with arc fault breakers. But I'd suspect the light switch could be occasionally arcing enough to trip the breaker. That's based on the fact that when you left it in the "on" position and reset the breaker it worked fine.

The light switch would be pretty easy and much less expensive to replace than the breaker. If it were me that's what I'd try first.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly (no pun intended) to educate us.
 
B

bubinga

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Jul 26, 2014
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12,744
Location
Bridgeport Ohio. (Across River From Wheeling WV)
rawen2 said:
First, I'm not an electrician and have zero experience with arc fault breakers. But I'd suspect the light switch could be occasionally arcing enough to trip the breaker. That's based on the fact that when you left it in the "on" position and reset the breaker it worked fine.

The light switch would be pretty easy and much less expensive to replace than the breaker. If it were me that's what I'd try first.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly (no pun intended) to educate us.
Click to expand...
Good call 🤙
 
W

wyliesdiesels

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Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,074
Location
Modesto, CA
78SC4X4 said:
I'm using AFCI/GFCI breakers for the lights and outlets in my shop. (So far, I have had no problems) A couple of weeks ago, I flipped the switch on for my loft lights and the breaker tripped. I reset the breaker, hit the switch again, and it tripped again. Then I left the switch on (got tired of going up and down stairs) and reset the breaker again. This time the lights stayed on.

The lights worked great for several days. Then after not using them for a couple of days, the breaker tripped again last Friday when I tried to turn them on. After a couple of resets, the lights stayed on. The lights turned off and on fine Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I did not turn them on Tuesday and then tonight (Wednesday) the breaker tripped. After two resets the lights work fine.

So, bad breaker, or could I have a little moisture or oxidation buildup over time that causes a short? Looking for thoughts before I go trouble shooting.
Click to expand...
Need to do a little investigating here before you can be sure what the issue is

Are there receptacles on the lighting breaker or just lights? if so, are any of them outside?

What brand and model breakers do you have? Some can tell you what type of fault caused the breaker to trip

and AFCIs are known for their nuisance tripping.

If it were mine, I'd ditch the AFCI breakers.

Are the lights hardwired? if so, you dont need GFCI for the lights.

Is this shop on a residential property?
rawen2 said:
First, I'm not an electrician and have zero experience with arc fault breakers. But I'd suspect the light switch could be occasionally arcing enough to trip the breaker. That's based on the fact that when you left it in the "on" position and reset the breaker it worked fine.

The light switch would be pretty easy and much less expensive to replace than the breaker. If it were me that's what I'd try first.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly (no pun intended) to educate us.
Click to expand...
Its highly unlikely that the light switch is causing the breaker to trip...
 
N

nadogail

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Jan 23, 2009
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Coronado, CA
Unlikely as it may seem, I am not yet confident about much of the “new and improved” technology.
A new commercial quality light switch is probably going to be better than what is in that circuit at present.
 
D

ddawg16

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Jul 11, 2008
Messages
21,005
Location
S. California
I had a similar issue when I installed a GFCI outside connected to my sons bedroom...which was on an AFCI.

Come to find out I had a broken wire in the box for the outside GFCI. Once I fixed that.....no issues. Since then I have NOT had a trip of any of my AFCI's
 
OP
7

78SC4X4

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Apr 21, 2018
Messages
370
Location
Port Orchard Wa
Thanks, folks. It's a hard-wired, indoor, lights-only circuit in my detached garage. I had the extra AFCI so went ahead and used it. They are square D homeline type. Overall, I haven't had any issues with the breakers, but swapping this one for a simple 15amp breaker would be pretty easy. I'll probably start there.
 
T

Terry D

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Mar 25, 2015
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Location
St. Louis, MO.
Per the 2020 NEC. AFCI protection is not required in a detached or attached garage. Just replace it with a standard breaker
 
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wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
nadogail said:
Unlikely as it may seem, I am not yet confident about much of the “new and improved” technology.
A new commercial quality light switch is probably going to be better than what is in that circuit at present.
Click to expand...
Just what do you think you’re gaining in the internals, with a spec grade light switch over a non-spec grade light switch? And how would that matter to the AFCI breaker?
 
D

dave*99

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May 5, 2009
Messages
4,286
Location
Coastal NJ
Terry D said:
Per the 2020 NEC. AFCI protection is not required in a detached or attached garage. Just replace it with a standard breaker
Click to expand...
My garage (House in NJ built in 2021 under NEC 2014) is under my living space. Much of the lighting in the garage is recessed lighting that is under living space such including the LR, DR BR etc. The lighting circuit is on an AFCI breaker. I have not had any problems. My question is.... does code require AFCI since the garage lights are under living space? Just curious.
 
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Terry D

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Mar 25, 2015
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Location
St. Louis, MO.
dave*99 said:
My garage (House in NJ built in 2021 under NEC 2014) is under my living space. Much of the lighting in the garage is recessed lighting that is under living space such including the LR, DR BR etc. The lighting circuit is on an AFCI breaker. I have not had any problems. My question is.... does code require AFCI since the garage lights are under living space? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Code does not require any circuits in the garage to be AFCI protected, at least yet. But if the circuits are also feeding loads in the living space above , then yes
 
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SlappyWhite

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Oct 3, 2012
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Location
Upper Canada
If it was me I would want to know why it is tripping before just switching to a breaker without arc detection. The trip could also be GFCI related BTW as it is dual function. Swapping to a regular breaker could just mask a legit problem that will be a bigger problem later.

If you can switch this breaker with another one in the panel of the same type and see if the fault follows the garage or the breaker. If it follows the breaker there is your answer... If not...

Switch back and then follow along from fixture to fixture disconnecting the DS ones (hot and neutral) until the fault goes away. You can start at the first and work down or use the halfway technique if there are a lot of them.

You could have rodent damage on a cable. screw damage, a bad connection, bad fixture, bare ground touching a neutral screw shorting neutral to ground (why I say disconnect both hot and neutral), etc. Leave the ground/bonding connected of course.
 
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Terry D

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Messages
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Location
St. Louis, MO.
SlappyWhite said:
If it was me I would want to know why it is tripping before just switching to a breaker without arc detection. The trip could also be GFCI related BTW as it is dual function. Swapping to a regular breaker could just mask a legit problem that will be a bigger problem later.

If you can switch this breaker with another one in the panel of the same type and see if the fault follows the garage or the breaker. If it follows the breaker there is your answer... If not...

Switch back and then follow along from fixture to fixture disconnecting the DS ones (hot and neutral) until the fault goes away. You can start at the first and work down or use the halfway technique if there are a lot of them.

You could have rodent damage on a cable. screw damage, a bad connection, bad fixture, bare ground touching a neutral screw shorting neutral to ground (why I say disconnect both hot and neutral), etc. Leave the ground/bonding connected of course.
Click to expand...
Not all AFCI breakers are GFCI breakers also
 
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