Bad garage floor pour… suggestions?

[thunderskunk]

Ok… I messed up.

I had a group of guys who I have done concrete floors with before. One guy did his entire house with Amvic, and it came out amazing. So when I went to pour my garage floor, they seemed pretty sure of themselves as to getting it in and finishing it.

Floor is 31x38 internal. Poured 8” slab with 5000 psi fiber reinforced, with #4 rebar and radiant floor heat. Three floor drains, a few septic outlets, and water in. Let’s see if I can get pictures of the results here:




It would be a great example of failures with slab pours as I imagine every example of bad surface finish exists on this one piece. Trowel marks, foot prints, patches, holes, whatever the pros must call it… any ideas? I’m kinda lost… my fault for thinking we could do it ourselves.

 

[Zeke]

Clearly they lost it to time. That's usually not enough manpower. Is that what happened?

There are remedies, but it is specialized and I bet not cheap.

Picked from the net:
If you are looking for more detail on a specific aspect of concrete repair, check out these outstanding resources:

• Concrete Repair and Maintenance Illustrated, Peter Emmons, published by R.S. Means. This book includes hundreds of drawings showing repair methods in detail. IT is currently on sale for almost half price.
• Concrete Repair Manual, published by the International Concrete Repair Institute, includes reference materials from ICRI, ACI, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, The Concrete Society (British), the BRE (also British), and much more. Over 2000 pages long—also available as a CD.
• The American Concrete Institute has several very good guides to concrete repair. ACI 224 is on crack repair, ACI 364 is on how to conduct a condition assessment, ACI 546 is an overall repair guide.

source

 

[manwithtools]

Sorry to say this, but the sooner you are in there with the jack hammers, the easier it will come out. I hope you have a written contract. What the hell is up with 8" of concrete in a building that small? Do you have huge milling machines? Stamping equipment?

SMH, that's a genuine mess! It's much worse than an example of bad surface failures. Pics are not very helpful in this case. There is much more to see here...

 

[thunderskunk]

That’s exactly it: we ran out of time; we started the power trowel too early, and should have had two towards the end.

Yes to the mills; I have one I’m moving in, then looking at buying a much larger machine; 15 t or so with barfeeder.

 

[Zeke]

Sorry to say this, but the sooner you are in there with the jack hammers, the easier it will come out. I hope you have a written contract. What the hell is up with 8" of concrete in a building that small? Do you have huge milling machines? Stamping equipment?

SMH, that's a genuine mess! It's much worse than an example of bad surface failures. Pics are not very helpful in this case. There is much more to see here...

That's not what I would do. Too easy for us armchair contractors to say rip it out — start over. He has in-floor heat and a bunch of plumbing.

Seriously, before I would tear all that out I'd tile it like the Europeans do.

 

[manwithtools]

That's not what I would do. Too easy for us armchair contractors to say rip it out — start over. He has in-floor heat and a bunch of plumbing.

Seriously, before I would tear all that out I'd tile it like the Europeans do.

Zeke, with all due respect if that shop will be full of mill's lathes with bar feeders , etc. a tile floor is not going to cut it. I know it *****, but right is right in this case.

 

[DBS5Window]

Self leveling epoxy?

 

[ConCretin]

If I'm in your shoes, I'm not even considering ripping out an 8" thick slab. Yea the finish ***** but I'm asking myself what do I really need. If I can't live with what I have I'm going to rent some floor grinders and get to work. If the floor is structurally sound, its salvageable.

 

[AdamMopar]

Grind it and coat it and it will be fine.

 

[p00p]

Two things I'd do; Select the lowest & worst area to grind flat. While grinding, if it is not bringing out voids, move on to another bad surfaced section to repeat the process.
If you don't see voids, golden.
If you have voids cropping up, ooofffffffph

 

[dcg9381]

Sorry to say this, but the sooner you are in there with the jack hammers, the easier it will come out. I hope you have a written contract. What the hell is up with 8" of concrete in a building that small? Do you have huge milling machines? Stamping equipment?

SMH, that's a genuine mess! It's much worse than an example of bad surface failures. Pics are not very helpful in this case. There is much more to see here...

We actually had to cut out a section of fiber reinforced concrete recently (they sloped it wrong). It actually cut out pretty well. Poured a section back in.. But this was in a drive, not a structural foundation.

It appears to me that they ran out of time at the end on surface finish. With 8" of concrete, I'd "assume" there is no structural issue so this is about making it look right on the surface.

And yea, I'd be wanting a bit of $$$ off the quoted price here. How much? Dunno.

 

[mike93lx]

Zeke, with all due respect if that shop will be full of mill's lathes with bar feeders , etc. a tile floor is not going to cut it. I know it *****, but right is right in this case.

What's the issue with tile? Flatness of the finish floor?

 

[manwithtools]

What's the issue with tile? Flatness of the finish floor?

Point loading of machines for one, slickness of the floor for another. I would not want to be in a machine shop with a tile floor with coolant mist in the air, slippery mess to contend with. Cleaning - dealing with grout would be a pain.

 

[mike93lx]

Point loading of machines for one, slickness of the floor for another. I would not want to be in a machine shop with a tile floor with coolant mist in the air, slippery mess to contend with. Cleaning - dealing with grout would be a pain.

Point loading? Tile is harder than concrete

Slickness can be dealt with by using the right tile. Tile is used in wet environments all the time.

 

[firebirdparts]

I am way too lazy and cheap to take that back out. By a factor of like 20.

 

[manwithtools]

Point loading? Tile is harder than concrete

Slickness can be dealt with by using the right tile. Tile is used in wet environments all the time.

Okay, tile it is then... silly me.

 

[K13]

Sorry to say this, but the sooner you are in there with the jack hammers, the easier it will come out. I hope you have a written contract. What the hell is up with 8" of concrete in a building that small? Do you have huge milling machines? Stamping equipment?

SMH, that's a genuine mess! It's much worse than an example of bad surface failures. Pics are not very helpful in this case. There is much more to see here...

Who's he going to have a written contract with, himself?

 

[mike93lx]

Okay, tile it is then... silly me.

Glad we settled that.

Seriously though, I'm just having a conversation. Don't care if you change your mind, this floor isn't in either of our shops

 

[duneslider]

How good do you need the floor to be and how much you wanting to spend to make it better?

 

[dougf]

I wouldn't try grinding, that would be one hell of a task if it's even doable. Not sure about tile but after a little research I saw its perfectly acceptable (if installed properly) for heavy machinery, but I still wouldn't personally do it in a shop (heavy cast iron machinery feet, dropping bar stock, etc...)

What would I do? Stain it and appreciate its rustic character. After you get the machines in and everything sorted you'll perhaps just chuckle a bit when you occasionally notice it. Don't let it eat you.

Just my worthless .02

 

[Zeke]

Okay, tile it is then... silly me.

It was just a suggestion. But note I said "European." They do tile differently and do it industrially. This is the highly regarded Ruf factory service area:



The floor in the construction area is the same. BTW, Ruf is a brand. They manufacture Ruf cars , but Porsche supplies some body parts. The VIN is registered as a Ruf. FYI fun fact. The ones you see in the service area could be either as they service and modify The Porsche proper.

 

[Zeke]

I wouldn't try grinding, that would be one hell of a task if it's even doable. Not sure about tile but after a little research I saw its perfectly acceptable (if installed properly) for heavy machinery, but I still wouldn't personally do it in a shop (heavy cast iron machinery feet, dropping bar stock, etc...)

What would I do? Stain it and appreciate its rustic character. After you get the machines in and everything sorted you'll perhaps just chuckle a bit when you occasionally notice it. Don't let it eat you.

Just my worthless .02

Somewhere I think there is a gang grinder that cuts with vertical discs. I know they do this to SoCal concrete freeways. That would prepare the surface for many "concrete dressing" products. The point bearing issue is valid, IMO, so those areas might have to be treated differently.

IDK, have I seen raised concrete platforms for large machines in factories? Something sticks in my mind.

Really, 8 inches is nothing to scoff at.

 

[jonesg]

Its just cosmetic.... poor finish , not a bad pour.
Get back to work.

 

[CraigStu]

I have to think that there is a product to coat/fill the problem areas. Maybe you will need two products, one for where you know a machine will be placed and another for what is mostly just cosmetic. That is what I would be concentrating on vs removing it.

 

[RPH]

End grain wood blocks. In the factories quite a bit. Easy to fix if damaged.

Industrial End Grain Wood Block Flooring - Jennison Wright Co.

 

[dcg9381]

I have to think that there is a product to coat/fill the problem areas. Maybe you will need two products, one for where you know a machine will be placed and another for what is mostly just cosmetic. That is what I would be concentrating on vs removing it.

There is. I just don't know what it is. When my home was built, they poured the front porch about 1" too high. They had to come in, chip out 1". Whatever they coated it in looks like fresh and correctly finished concrete.

How you "blend" it in this case with finished concrete next to it, I'm not sure.

 

[duneslider]

It was just a suggestion. But note I said "European." They do tile differently and do it industrially. This is the highly regarded Ruf factory service area:



The floor in the construction area is the same. BTW, Ruf is a brand. They manufacture Ruf cars , but Porsche supplies some body parts. The VIN is registered as a Ruf. FYI fun fact. The ones you see in the service area could be either as they service and modify The Porsche proper.

This is a quarry tile, sort of a cross between ceramic and brick. It is harder than ceramic, not at hard as porcelain but made more like the brick making process. Very durable and widely used in commercial spaces, especially commercial kitchens. Inexpensive, slip-resistant, and impervious to lots of chemicals. It is available in other more "pleasing" colors nowadays. The red quarry tile is a classic color though.

 

[Spud McGee]

Surface finish looks like ****. How is it as far as flat and level goes? Like where you want to put the big heavy machines, is it flat enough there?

I could probably live with the ugly finish as long as it didn't affect the way the machines sat or where you needed to set/stand/roll toolboxes.

 

[manwithtools]

For those of you who prefer a tile floor for your machine shop, I invite you to move to Germany, Austria or Sweden about 150 years ago. Otherwise, for those living in today's presence and the immediate future, please enjoy a nice concrete floor for obvious reasons.

 

[bluedog225]

100% keep it.

Spend some money on a big, big grinder or 3 and pretty it up. I think you will be way ahead dollar wise and have a nice floor.

 

[thunderskunk]

Yea, at this point I’m leaning towards grinding. May just leave the finish ground, if not pour an entirely new top coat. I have a stacker I use as a “forklift” that won’t roll over the damaged areas it’s that bad.

 

[Zeke]

This is a quarry tile, sort of a cross between ceramic and brick. It is harder than ceramic, not at hard as porcelain but made more like the brick making process. Very durable and widely used in commercial spaces, especially commercial kitchens. Inexpensive, slip-resistant, and impervious to lots of chemicals. It is available in other more "pleasing" colors nowadays. The red quarry tile is a classic color though.

Thanks for letting others know about the tile. I have used it in every restaurant I have built in the kitchen. We just grout it with cocoa brown in the beginning since it will be that color soon anyway. Quarry is not too expensive but I would prefer larger tiles. There are many that look like quarry but they are not high fired tiles.

Tiles set in epoxy setting compound and back-buttered should be a good surface with no hollows. It will support tons of weight.

Also, while I was looking at European factory floors, it seems the VW factory may be using a luxury vinyl tile or LVT. This may not be suitable for under machines, but if there is to be an area for general use that is currently damaged, then repair and covering will fix the problem. And it will look nice. Some of these are available in a light color to brighten things up too.



It's kinda like making lemonade when all you have is lemons.

 

[K13]

Thanks for letting others know about the tile. I have used it in every restaurant I have built in the kitchen. We just grout it with cocoa brown in the beginning since it will be that color soon anyway. Quarry is not too expensive but I would prefer larger tiles. There are many that look like quarry but they are not high fired tiles.

Tiles set in epoxy setting compound and back-buttered should be a good surface with no hollows. It will support tons of weight.

Also, while I was looking at European factory floors, it seems the VW factory may be using a luxury vinyl tile or LVT. This may not be suitable for under machines, but if there is to be an area for general use that is currently damaged, then repair and covering will fix the problem. And it will look nice. Some of these are available in a light color to brighten things up too.



It's kinda like making lemonade when all you have is lemons.

Those floors are Canadian Maple not LVT.

 

[Zeke]

Those floors are Canadian Maple not LVT.

Good to know. i couldn't tell so I said 'may'. They came up using a google search for tile.

Pegged at that. Very cool. IDT the concrete that is the subject of this thread can use wood floors.

 

[Inventive1]

Years ago, I watched a concrete floor on a home's porch being repaired. That porch floor looked similar to the pictures posted above. The contractor applied some kind of specialized cement coating over the concrete. I think he had to trowel it in a similar manner to concrete. When he was finished, it was flat and smooth and looked good. The contractor then painted the concrete to further seal it and to keep water / moisture from causing issues with the repair. Today, I can't recall exactly what was used, but it was probably a product similar to this:

Floor Resurfacer - Fast-Setting Self-Leveling | QUIKRETE: Cement and Concrete Products

The QUIKRETE® Companies are the largest manufacturers of packaged concrete in the United States and an innovative leader in the commercial building and home improvement industries.

www.quikrete.com

Now on a garage floor with heavy point loads, this type of product may not be suitable. On that porch repair, whatever was used held up through several winters.

 

[Zeke]

I'm glad this thread has turned towards repair being possible.

 

[Hank11]

Look up Ardex products.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Invite friends to help you paint...NOT finish concrete!

 

[CoRestore]

Hire someone to use Bush Hammers on a grinder, then diamond grind with 30 diamonds. Then you can either Epoxy flake, Poly top coat it, or you could put some self leveling products on it. TruPc is good stuff!

 

[lmg]

Ok… I messed up.

I had a group of guys who I have done concrete floors with before. One guy did his entire house with Amvic, and it came out amazing. So when I went to pour my garage floor, they seemed pretty sure of themselves as to getting it in and finishing it.

Floor is 31x38 internal. Poured 8” slab with 5000 psi fiber reinforced, with #4 rebar and radiant floor heat. Three floor drains, a few septic outlets, and water in. Let’s see if I can get pictures of the results here:




It would be a great example of failures with slab pours as I imagine every example of bad surface finish exists on this one piece. Trowel marks, foot prints, patches, holes, whatever the pros must call it… any ideas? I’m kinda lost… my fault for thinking we could do it ourselves.

Zeke and others have offered some good references and comments. Most of my career I have dealt with concrete issues and have learned where to turn for help. The American Concrete Institute (ACI), and the Portland Cement Institute (PCI), in my opinion are the best sources for information. I did a quick search on topping concrete slabs, the results are here: https://www.cement.org/search-results?

Some or most of the returns may not be appropriate, but the first one, from PCI, definitely includes remedies for industrial applications like yours.

Proper curing cannot be overemphasized. Any curing compound must be applied at the recommended rate, which will cover the entire surface.

My search terms did not exclude ACI, but I did not notice anything from them, perhaps they are not so willing to share with the public.

Of course adding topping will create issues with heights of any door openings.

Hope this helps.