Looks that way to me also. I hate **** like that as I have some impact sockets that clearly do the same thing.
Edit- to be clear, I'm not saying that a 50 and 52 mm can't share the same OD, but in smaller sizes....
Baffled by Wright marketing...
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start date
Looks that way to me also. I hate **** like that as I have some impact sockets that clearly do the same thing.
Edit- to be clear, I'm not saying that a 50 and 52 mm can't share the same OD, but in smaller sizes....
Pretty sure all sizes are similar. I bought two or three, and they are the same way. Not one of Wright's best efforts, although they should be exceptionally strong.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Me too!I'm still waiting for long pattern wrightgrip combination wrenches
UK is a bit of an oddball, undoubtedly having closer ties with the USA than the rest of Europe. I agree bondhus may stretch out more than the rest. However I'm always on the lookout for such stuff and haven't ever seen them in Europe (apart from the set I bought), and I've been to many mechanics and factories with my work. Channellock and Estwing - yeah they surely sell some stuff but they are far from an established brand and with very little presence on the market. Estwing a world standard? I think that is really a stretch, they'd be very hard to find even in Europe - not to mention anywhere outside of Europe and NA. E.g. if you go to Germany, the "standard hammer" would be a Picard. I do know Estwing makes the german hammer patterns so they must also sell some..
Facom and Knipex were always well known in Europe. Knipex especially is a very old brand.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
Not in a million years. You're thinking of Matco back in the day before the Taiwanese started making everything for them.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Estwing can be tricky to find in the USA @ lumberyards. I can't imagine what it's like in Europe.
Reminds me of a recent experience I had with Toptul AAAK-series spanners (short, double-ended ring spanners).I love Wright Tool but I would skip their double box wrenches and look at Proto instead. They "updated" the design around 2019 and they are much fatter around the ring ends now. When I purchased the 12x14 I thought it was a defect and contacted them. They told me this was the new "improved" design.
Look at the new 12x14 compared to my old 17x19, does this look like a improvement to you?
I bought the AAAK1415 in the middle here in Romania for about €2. It has a nice high polish and slim enough ring walls.
Liking the spanner, a while later I ordered the other four, from Motointegrator.de. Prices were about double, €4 per spanner. But I was dismayed with what I received.
The ring walls are very fat, the chamfer too deep, and even the broaching is a little misshapen. The polish and chrome plating are inferior too.
Progress, eh?
Last edited:
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Nah man, Snap On who literally owns their own factories, is paying someone else to make tools they have the capability to manufacture.
Marketing, merchandizing, whatever. I’d be creating sets of tools in foam packaging that fits into toolboxes in complete sets like Hazet does, incorporating cool colors and marketing them to you guys. Decent tools, but colors and finishes you guys want. I’d consider cera coating tools. There’s probably a market for flat dark earth tools, if even just ratchet handles. Look at what Magpul did. Not style over substance, but there’s a lot of style there.
Also, I’d make some sort of insulated tools with electric blue, green, yellow, orange coatings designed specifically for working on electric vehicles. Doesn’t matter that you don’t need insulated tools for a Tesla brake job, these would be special “EV” tools. Maybe Europe would make them a requirement.
Point is, there’s a lot a toolmaker can do to sell tools besides making them withstand the most punishment.
Toolboxes and tool sets used to be as cool as the cars they were intended for. The US has once again taken cool stuff and made it boring. Tool sets should be fun.
Also, I’d make some sort of insulated tools with electric blue, green, yellow, orange coatings designed specifically for working on electric vehicles. Doesn’t matter that you don’t need insulated tools for a Tesla brake job, these would be special “EV” tools. Maybe Europe would make them a requirement.
Point is, there’s a lot a toolmaker can do to sell tools besides making them withstand the most punishment.
Toolboxes and tool sets used to be as cool as the cars they were intended for. The US has once again taken cool stuff and made it boring. Tool sets should be fun.
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Wright could do more marketing, and maybe offer better sets, or longer pattern wrenches. But I like the idea of a smallish USA company that makes top-of-the-line tools, and I worry that if they start to focus too much on the "brand" they might be tempted to put that brand/logo on ****** products.
I once saw a multitool and flashlight set that was bottom of the barrel junk, with the Snap-on logo, being sold at Ace Hardware. Snap-on did not make it, but they licensed the brand and logo to some Chinese manufacturer. I suppose it was a holiday marketing gimmick, but the tools were total junk, closer to toys, really. I don't see how something like that would benefit them, and could negatively impact a new buyer's perceptions of the brand. SBD, Apex, and many other companies/brands are guilty of this as well.
Wright doesn't do much advertising at all, but they let their products do the talking. I wish more companies would do that, TBH.
I once saw a multitool and flashlight set that was bottom of the barrel junk, with the Snap-on logo, being sold at Ace Hardware. Snap-on did not make it, but they licensed the brand and logo to some Chinese manufacturer. I suppose it was a holiday marketing gimmick, but the tools were total junk, closer to toys, really. I don't see how something like that would benefit them, and could negatively impact a new buyer's perceptions of the brand. SBD, Apex, and many other companies/brands are guilty of this as well.
Wright doesn't do much advertising at all, but they let their products do the talking. I wish more companies would do that, TBH.
neophyte
Well-known member
Estwing literally has a bunch of hammer designs made for export, that are barely available in the USA.
This includes British Claw Hammer designs, and German style Blacksmithing and roofing hammers.
International Archives - Estwing
www.estwing.com
This is ebay UK.
There are everything from new Estwing hammers in the latest designs, to well used ones.
Axminster tools, a UK tool seller.
Under claw hammers, the only hammers listed are Estwing.
Claw Hammers - Hammers, Mallets & Punches - Hand Tools | Axminster Tools
Dual purpose hammers for striking nails and extracting them
Search Results
Buy Tools For Sale Online or In-store at Tools Warehouse, Australia’s Leading Independent Tool Shop ✅ Afterpay Available!
toolswarehouse.com.au
Sydney Tools
sydneytools.com.au
Amazon Germany
Incidentally,
Marshalltown and W Rose trowels seem to be somewhat commonly used by British bricklayers, although I’m not sure about other countries.
The reason Picard, the German hammer manufacturer, is now making a solid forged hammer, is likely to compete with Estwing.
The same goes for one or more Japanese hammer manufacturers that are now making a single piece forged claw hammer.
It’s not like the classic Estwing hammer designs were still under patent protection.
Those patents likely expired decades ago.
Attachments
I can see the appeal of that. And I agree with you completely-- I like it when companies truly care for their brand and let the products do the talking.
Which is why my proposal is so modest-- take the tools you are already making and make them easier to buy.
Unless Wright is already operating at full capacity all the time and the next small increment of production causes a large spike in CAPEX, I just don't see why they don't offer sets of some of the tools they are already making.
One of the great, or not so great depending on your view, things of a privately held company is they don’t have to do anything they don’t want to do if the owner(s) is making plenty of money and paying their bills. The needs to continuously grow sales and market share are what makes good companies start making junk and offshoring products. Wright seems to be doing their thing and are seemingly successful.
Even if they were operating at full capacity, smarter marketing would bring more profit (higher prices).
Reminds me of Toptul again. They make some great products, but often slightly the wrong products for discerning Western markets.
When it's the last day of shop class, and you haven't been paying attention all year, and need to make your final project to pass.Reminds me of a recent experience I had with Toptul AAAK-series spanners (short, double-ended ring spanners).
I bought the AAAK1415 in the middle here in Romania for about €2. It has a nice high polish and slim enough ring walls.
Liking the spanner, a while later I ordered the other four, from Motointegrator.de. Prices were about double, €4 per spanner. But I was dismayed with what I received.
The ring walls are very fat, the chamfer too deep, and even the broaching is a little misshapen. The polish and chrome plating are inferior too.
Progress, eh?
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Stanley Black & Decker.
Ton ton
Well-known member
Thank you very much!Estwing literally has a bunch of hammer designs made for export, that are barely available in the USA.
This includes British Claw Hammer designs, and German style Blacksmithing and roofing hammers.
These designs are not readily available in the USA.International Archives - Estwing
This is ebay UK.
There are everything from new Estwing hammers in the latest designs, to well used ones.
Axminster tools, a UK tool seller.
Under claw hammers, the only hammers listed are Estwing.
Another UK tool retailer.Claw Hammers - Hammers, Mallets & Punches - Hand Tools | Axminster Tools
Dual purpose hammers for striking nails and extracting themwww.axminstertools.com
An Australian tool retailer
AnotherSearch Results
Buy Tools For Sale Online or In-store at Tools Warehouse, Australia’s Leading Independent Tool Shop ✅ Afterpay Available!
Sydney Tools
Amazon Germany
Incidentally,
Marshalltown and W Rose trowels seem to be somewhat commonly used by British bricklayers, although I’m not sure about other countries.
The reason Picard, the German hammer manufacturer, is now making a solid forged hammer, is likely to compete with Estwing.
The same goes for one or more Japanese hammer manufacturers that are now making a single piece forged claw hammer.
It’s not like the classic Estwing hammer designs were still under patent protection.
Those patents likely expired decades ago.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
I just wish they’d make leather handled ball peen hammers again here in the states.Estwing literally has a bunch of hammer designs made for export, that are barely available in the USA.
This includes British Claw Hammer designs, and German style Blacksmithing and roofing hammers.
These designs are not readily available in the USA.International Archives - Estwing
This is ebay UK.
There are everything from new Estwing hammers in the latest designs, to well used ones.
Axminster tools, a UK tool seller.
Under claw hammers, the only hammers listed are Estwing.
Another UK tool retailer.Claw Hammers - Hammers, Mallets & Punches - Hand Tools | Axminster Tools
Dual purpose hammers for striking nails and extracting them
An Australian tool retailer
AnotherSearch Results
Buy Tools For Sale Online or In-store at Tools Warehouse, Australia’s Leading Independent Tool Shop ✅ Afterpay Available!
Sydney Tools
Amazon Germany
Incidentally,
Marshalltown and W Rose trowels seem to be somewhat commonly used by British bricklayers, although I’m not sure about other countries.
The reason Picard, the German hammer manufacturer, is now making a solid forged hammer, is likely to compete with Estwing.
The same goes for one or more Japanese hammer manufacturers that are now making a single piece forged claw hammer.
It’s not like the classic Estwing hammer designs were still under patent protection.
Those patents likely expired decades ago.
This is exactly it. They seem to be using the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" model; and it's been working for decades. Now, I know everyone is going to start making comparisons to the US auto industry, etc, but it's not the same. Wright has a small market with a dedicated customer base, and I'm sure a decent portion is government agencies; Harbor Freight is not going to be a competitor. But you can also buy Wright on McMaster. It's like how there are dozens of cheaper options than Wilton vises, but industry is still buying the same Wiltons decades later.
Ironically, HF is also a privately owned company that does its own thing and seems to be successful in that marketplace too.
There’s no reason for Wright to be like HF or for HF to be like Wright.
You still don't usually see them anywhere. Did they invent the one piece forged hammer? Picard is certainly a much older manufacturer than estwing.Estwing literally has a bunch of hammer designs made for export, that are barely available in the USA.
This includes British Claw Hammer designs, and German style Blacksmithing and roofing hammers.
These designs are not readily available in the USA.International Archives - Estwing
This is ebay UK.
There are everything from new Estwing hammers in the latest designs, to well used ones.
Axminster tools, a UK tool seller.
Under claw hammers, the only hammers listed are Estwing.
Another UK tool retailer.Claw Hammers - Hammers, Mallets & Punches - Hand Tools | Axminster Tools
Dual purpose hammers for striking nails and extracting them
An Australian tool retailer
AnotherSearch Results
Buy Tools For Sale Online or In-store at Tools Warehouse, Australia’s Leading Independent Tool Shop ✅ Afterpay Available!
Sydney Tools
Amazon Germany
Incidentally,
Marshalltown and W Rose trowels seem to be somewhat commonly used by British bricklayers, although I’m not sure about other countries.
The reason Picard, the German hammer manufacturer, is now making a solid forged hammer, is likely to compete with Estwing.
The same goes for one or more Japanese hammer manufacturers that are now making a single piece forged claw hammer.
It’s not like the classic Estwing hammer designs were still under patent protection.
Those patents likely expired decades ago.
neophyte
Well-known member
Picard only started making solid one piece forged hammers maybe a decade or so ago, and they seem to be limited to a half dozen or less models.
Picard is also making an aluminum framed hammer with steel faces (like Estwing), but the Picard hammer came out after Estwing released theirs, and Estwing announced their aluminum hammer way before it actually was available for sale, (by a number of years), because the aluminum forging operations were mostly occupied making AR receiver blanks. (or I believe this was a reason someone heard at the time)
Locally, I can find Estwing hammers at both Lowes and Home Depot, or I could up until recently, as well as the occasional model at one or more local hardware stores, and I can get Estwing products thru Grainger, and other industrial hardware stores.
A lot of dedicated woodworking stores will at least carry some models.
I’ve literally never considered Estwing rare or unusual in the USA.
Picard gammers on the other hand are mostly a specialty brand in the USA.
Other than dedicated blacksmithing suppliers and Hammersource, Picard is mostly a specialty supplier.
You find Picard gammers at specialty roofing suppliers, which supply tools for roofers who specialize in metal or slate roofs.
Otherwise, Picard is mostly supplying tools for jewelers and other fine metal-smiths, and and previously, the hammers were probably rebranded by Grobet.
I have no clue how widely the hammers are available in Germany, but probably decently.
As far as Estwing “inventing” the one piece forged hammer, I don’t know, but they do have a patent going back to 1926 for a one piece forged hatchet or hammer, so it’s quite possible, and the patent was originally filed in 1924.
As far as Picard goes, there was a Picard forging various tools back in 1857, but power forging was only added in 1910.
I think a better example is NWS pliers in comparison to Wright. NWS has a very small basic plier line in comparison to Knipex. They offer a few dozen choices, a few handle styles, a few finishes, and that's it. They are happy with their small market and evidently doing just fine. People that buy NWS, like me, don't mind paying a premium for a high-quality product made in Germany. But they aren't trying to grow huge like Knipex, and are evidently doing fine with just a tiny fraction of sales in comparison. Another is PB Swiss.
I'm sure we could go on with dozens, but there is a market for small producers that make a quality product, even if there are dozens of competitors that sell more stuff at lower prices; it's just a matter of a dedicated customer base that appreciates what they sell. And while we might want them to make more products, they just don't see the need to. Part may be production capacity due to workforce or machine availability, part may be that they just don't care to grow sales because they're profitable and don't want any more headaches than they already have.
Yep, I just mentioned HF because that was mentioned in another post. Any of the small manufacturers that are independently owned would fall into that category. Many of the small breweries are like that too. I read an article about the Spotted Cow beer maker, they sold all they could produce and are only sold in Wisconsin. To go out of state would require much more work on their part and they didn’t see the benefit. I know whenever I’m in Wisconsin I buy some to smuggle across the border. Usually small companies end up being bought out by a large corporation and that’s the end of their quality and uniqueness.
But here in Europe I cannot find Estwing in any shop. You may buy it online if someone knows about the brand and wants it... But almost noone knows it.
That wasn't my comment.
Yeah but US was issuing lots of patents in the past while this was not common practice elsewhere. For certain the first one-piece forged hammers were hand made at some point and predated both brands for centuries...
Also, not sure how long they're making these styles of the roofing hammer, but certainly older than the internet
)
neophyte
Well-known member
That is a specialty slate hammer that is likely never encountered outside a very niche specific group of tradesmen.Also, not sure how long they're making these styles of the roofing hammer, but certainly older than the internet
I don’t even think I’ve seen these in horror movies.
Also, when I tried googling antique slating hammers, a number came up that looked very similar to the Modern Picard slating hammer, but all were branded from US tool companies that were active in the 1920s or earlier.
I have no clue were that style of hammer originated.
Picard and other German or Austrian companies seem to be the major manufacturers nowadays, but that may be because most houses in the US don’t use slate anymore as a roofing material.
neophyte
Well-known member
After some research, I can find drawings of that style of hammer going back to the 1880s, and references to a distinctive “slate hammer” from the 1870s.Also, not sure how long they're making these styles of the roofing hammer, but certainly older than the internet
One reference is from the USA and the other British.
It’s possible German references wouldn’t come up with regular google searches in English.
I would not be surprised if the design of the slate hammer goes back to the early 1800s or late 1700s.
It is quite possible Estwing got the inspiration from skate hammers.
The stacked leather construction us certainly similar.
The classic Estwing pattern goes back to the 1920s though, as can be seen in the original Estwing patents.
Most current “one piece forged” hammers nowadays were copying the Estwing designs, especially the one from Picard.
As for patents, back in the 1920s and earlier, the patents used to have to be filed separately in each country.
It’s possible the patent clerk in the USA was not familiar with the slate hammer design, or that the patent clerk considered the Estwing design a significantly different tool to issue a patent for.
I have no clue if Estwing filed patents elsewhere.
I simply mentioned Estwing originally in this thread, because Estwing hammers are sold globally, even if the “local” hardware stores in any country don’t carry the hammers.
Knipex pliers aren’t exactly a regular hardware store item in the USA.
Knipex pliers are usually sold thru industrial suppliers and specialty tool retailers.
Lowes had Knipex on shelves at one point, but not in the refular tool section from what I recall, and Lowes clearanced the Knipex within the year or so.
Chrome Vanadium Cody
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2021
- Messages
- 663
Wright obviously has a strategy that works for them in order to be the last company standing as far as independently owned hardline usa tool manufacturers with minimal rebranded imports. At the same time I agree with you. I was setting up a new workstation recently and was aiming to buy everything from Wright. I couldn't do it because guess what they don't make? A 1/4" drive 10mm deep 12 point socket. This is probably a top 5 most sold socket in America!
Interesting. I have to say that I do not own any 1/4" drive 12 point metric sockets- deep or shallow. I have 3/8 and 1/2 drive shallow 12 pt and have never had a need for anything but them. The last time I used a metric 12 pt was on Tacoma flywheel bolts.
Yes I can agree on that... I think that forged hammer style has French origins (at least that's how it's sometimes called here). It is still somewhat commonly used for roofing in some countries.
Just wanted to point out - a lot of the things that were "patented" were not necessarily the first at something, especially before the internet age when it would be incredibly had to research such stuff. Somewhat similar story with the Wilton US patent which was on the design that was already patented in the Czech republic (except I'd fully expect Estwing to make the "one piece" hammer independently without knowledge of any alternatives, while Wilton definitely copied and knew about the York - the founder was employed by York before he fled to the US).
But it is amazing that it's possible to find so much info on old US patents online.
oldpliers1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2021
- Messages
- 726
Hi mate hope you are all well On ESTWING Major seller in the Pacific Australia New Zealand main hammer , it was the plumb ( yes plumb not Plomb)in the 60s but by the early 70s the leather handle English pattern 24 Oz was the Industry standard for building trades and the 20 Oz for cabinet makers. I bought my first one a 24 Oz. With nylon handle when they were first introduced in 1981 for $20 .
I bought a 3 pound club and 24 Oz ball pein in 85 , in around 2007 we saw the 28 Oz American style framing hammer and a lot more American style hammers since then I have 7 plus estwing s hammers all different styles a fantastic tool maker, I have had quite a few stolen over the years I’ll put up some photos .
The English pattern claw was part of our culture , being English colonies and hence for many years English tools were sold here . It’s interesting that stuff made in the states ,estwing Channellock , Crescent , Stanley sold different products to The American market , and sold large quantities,best sellers .
Last edited:
Ton ton
Well-known member
I was able to find an Estwing with a leather handle about 1 3/4 hours drive from home but locally the lumberyards are hit and miss when it comes to Estwing.
oldpliers1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2021
- Messages
- 726
The leather handle estwing s you can buy everywhere over here , but they are English pattern Claws and generally 20 & 24 ounce , my brother loves his one but I prefer the nylon blue handles , they don’t break down from sweat and moisture, I have seen a knock of both the leather and nylon Estwing . its a 100 degrees here today so I’ll go take a few Estwing photos . Cheers