To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Ballistix Install

Schoeny

Active member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Central Iowa
So, were you to have tried remediating right after you laid it down, how would the steps have differed, or did you not go down that path in your discussions with the manufacturer?

What I'm really asking, is if there's something else you could/should keep on hand to be ready in the event something like this were to occur?

(Not trying grill you, just curious as someone who is considering this myself in a couple weeks time. Your post has been very insightful as to installation procedures and customer support, so thank you)
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
So, were you to have tried remediating right after you laid it down, how would the steps have differed, or did you not go down that path in your discussions with the manufacturer?

What I'm really asking, is if there's something else you could/should keep on hand to be ready in the event something like this were to occur?

(Not trying grill you, just curious as someone who is considering this myself in a couple weeks time. Your post has been very insightful as to installation procedures and customer support, so thank you)
As I understand it, the best practice is to apply Ballistix to a smaller area first and wait 15 minutes to see how it looks. If all looks good then proceed with the rest of the application. If it does not look good the Ballistix can easily be cleaned up and removed with 99% isopropyl. Mixed Ballistix can be stored in a refrigerator for days and still used with no problems. So if you're not happy with it, you clean it up, fix whatever the problem was and reapply within a day or two. Once Ballistix has fully cured (7 days) then nothing is getting it up besides aggressive abrasives. It is surprisingly hard when fully cured.

My issue was I had very limited free time, so I had no time to correct something if I were to see an issue. Additionally I had no idea what Ballistix was supposed to look like right after laying it down, so I assumed what I saw was normal (I had followed all the directions so I had no reason to think otherwise).

A couple other notes after speaking with the manufacturer....the remediation expert said that the final 99% iso wipe should happen just before application of Ballistix. Spray the iso from a sprayer and mop it out with a microfiber mop. They also mentioned some newer versions of Ballistix coming out that are single component with no mixing. I asked how they compared to the 3 part system currently available (I assumed it didn't have the same protective properties) but according the person I talked to it is the same or better. Something to think about.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
I spent a fun 5 hours this afternoon/evening sanding the whole floor. I used a square orbital sander with 80 grit sanding screens. The orbital sander was much easier to use than a floor polisher. It floats easily over the floor and all I had to do was guide it.

I took my time and hit everything in multiple directions. It was a ton of work....again. I used 6 screens. I used a blower and removed all the dust from the shop after I was done. Overall it looks good, I think. It certainly looks dull. But when I look close I can still see some gloss. I went over some areas again and just left the sander in place for several minutes and it didn't make much of a difference. Does 100% of the gloss needs to be gone? If so, shoot me now.

I'm hoping this is scuffed enough to be able to lay down a new layer of Ballistix. I don't think I will do another layer of 8400X sealer. Not sure I want to chance another issue with it. Throwing some drops of water on the floor now, they don't soak into the concrete quickly, but they also don't bead up like they did with Ballistix. So I'm assuming I'm good.

Unless someone tells me otherwise, I'm going to proceed with a new layer of Ballistix this week. At this point I'm done messing with this floor. This has quite literally sucked up all my free time over the past three weeks. I have tons of other projects to get done and I haven't been able to do a single one of them.Sanding.jpg

More sanding.jpg

Even more sanding.jpg

This is zoomed in a good amount. This is after the 80 grit screen with multiple slow passes in different directions. Dust cleaned off.
Still some gloss.jpg
 

Schoeny

Active member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Central Iowa
Hopefully you're in the clear to reapply now.

Even though it's a PITA in your situation, I suppose it also vouches for the product that it's this hard to remove as well.

Definitely appreciate all the information/experience you'd provided to the forum, hope it works out with this next application.
 

BuickFarmer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Athens, Georgia
Man that must be some hard sealer!!! @KPack I applaud you for your hard work and working with @Armorpoxy to try and resolve this disastrous situation, you certainly have more patience than I think I would have had. I am wondering though why you didn't just go ahead and grind. Just totally remove any and all potential for something to go wrong again. Good luck with the next application, I'm sure I can speak for us all in saying "We're rooting for you"
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
Hopefully you're in the clear to reapply now.

Even though it's a PITA in your situation, I suppose it also vouches for the product that it's this hard to remove as well.

Definitely appreciate all the information/experience you'd provided to the forum, hope it works out with this next application.
Yes, definitely a testament to how tough Ballistix is. If it takes this much work to get it scuffed up then I imagine that it'll do great with normal work in the garage.

Man that must be some hard sealer!!! @KPack I applaud you for your hard work and working with @Armorpoxy to try and resolve this disastrous situation, you certainly have more patience than I think I would have had. I am wondering though why you didn't just go ahead and grind. Just totally remove any and all potential for something to go wrong again. Good luck with the next application, I'm sure I can speak for us all in saying "We're rooting for you"
I didn't grind because the manufacturer directed me to use the sanding screens. Their normal recommendation is to use a black pad, but it wasn't doing enough in my case. Apparently after fully curing Ballistix is very difficult to remove, so they recommended either 80 or 100 grit sanding screens to scuff it up in preparation for another layer. I went with 80 because it was more aggressive.
 

kngelv

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
2,215
Location
Detroit, MI
I feel for you and this whole ordeal that you have gone through. I'm not liking the look of that last photo. I have a suggestion/thought. What if you were to tape off an area that you are 100% sure will be covered by a bench, cabinets or other equipment? Like a 8' long and 3' wide area along a wall or smaller. Cut that in half and leave one half as it sits. On the other half get a diamond grinding wheel for an angle grinder and grind away. Then go ahead and put the product or products down and see what you think. This will give you a good idea before you do the whole darn floor.

James
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
Any updates?

James

None yet. Waiting for some materials to come in this week, then I'm going to attempt a recoat. I'll do a small test section first and see how it lays out. With any luck it won't get rejected, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm just preparing myself for the worst case scenario.
 

Armorpoxy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
3,731
Location
NJ
Kpack is correct, this stuff is very tough and challenging to remove but it can be recoated with the sanding or buff pad prepping.

We are coming out with single component formulations in the next month or so. Performance is comparable, but pricing is higher than the multi-component versions.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
Alright, I got replacement mop attachments and gathered the rest of the materials. My wife and I reapplied the Ballistix this morning and it is MUCH better. I was concerned that I would have some rejection because not every bit of gloss was fully removed from sanding. Turns out that it doesn't need to be fully removed, just scuffed up.

A couple of things that I note to other who will be using this:

1.) The first batch of Ballistix I had struggled to reach the required 135 degrees when mixing parts A and B. I shook it up multiple times, and even when kept somewhere warm it still never fully reached 135. I think I measured it at 134, but it took like an hour to get there. The second batch of Ballistix reached 145 within 5 minutes (ambient temps 75). So I think part of the problem is that the first mix somehow just didn't work correctly. Not sure why since I followed the directions carefully.
Ballistix mix temperature.jpg

2.) The floor temp was better this time. When I first applied the floor was probably about 60 degrees. Measured today it was about 72.

3.) This time I mopped with 99% iso right before applying Ballistix. Last time I mopped the night before. But talking with the Ballistix reps, they recommended hitting it with 99% iso right before application of Ballistix. It helps to open the pores in the underlying substrate in order for Ballistix to adhere better. This is part-way through the iso wipe....you can see that the floor is pretty dull (darker floor is cleaned):
Cleaning with 99% iso.jpg

4.) I sprayed and mopped a small section of Ballistix first, then let it sit a few minutes to see how it reacted. After I was pleased with the outcome, we pressed forward.

5.) We made sure to keep the spray tip for Ballistix at least 2' above the ground. Better atomization of the liquid

6.) The Ballistix did not go as far this time around. I did not apply another coat of Armorpoxy 8400X after sanding. I didn't want to risk another poor reaction. So the gallon of Ballistix covered about 1000 sq ft this time, instead of the 1300 I got last time. I didn't have any extra Ballistix on hand since I wasn't sure what to expect as far as coverage goes. I'm ordering another quart today and will finish the last bit once it comes in.

Overall it looks MUCH better than it did last time. No beading at all that I can see
Ballistix take 2.jpg

Ballistix take 2 low angle.jpg

Once I wrap up the last bit (hopefully the quart of Ballistix comes quickly) I can put this whole saga behind me and move on to other projects. Knowing what I know now, I would have done these things differently from the beginning:
1.) Prepped the floor first with some sanding to remove most imperfections. Better finish this way
2.) Not used 8400X sealer, or at least figured out what the curing time actually is. It doesn't say on the bottle, and the product does not show on Armorpoxy's website. I could not find a TDS for it.
3.) Waited until floor temps were higher (not sure if that makes a difference)
4.) Did the final iso wipe right before Ballistix

I'll continue to update as I finish the floor. Thanks for following along.
 

drmarkr

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 5, 2006
Messages
4,202
Location
Tucson
Looks good. Hopefully you'll get some great use out of that surface, particularly after all of this!
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

FrancisJ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
93
I've tried Ballistix and others -- not a happy camper with any of those. We're just "band aiding" an even worse product (concrete).

My father, an Italian building contractor in NYC and Philadelphia, used "Roman Concrete" (pozzolanic ash) on select jobs -- this is widely used in Italy and fixes the underlying concrete problem permanently -- "Roman Concrete" lasts for 100s, 1000s of years unlike the **** here in the US.

US manufacturers won't sell it because they'd have zero follow-up business.

 

Schoeny

Active member
Joined
Dec 31, 2012
Messages
25
Location
Central Iowa
That looks great. Nice work.

I'm still mired in the patching/prepping phase, hoping to install this weekend.

2.) Not used 8400X sealer, or at least figured out what the curing time actually is. It doesn't say on the bottle, and the product does not show on Armorpoxy's website. I could not find a TDS for it.

@Armorpoxy, what is the curing time for this? Or how long to wait before Ballistix? (roughly, knowing that temp/humidity affect it)

I could not really find a hard answer in the packaging I got this week either.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
I've tried Ballistix and others -- not a happy camper with any of those. We're just "band aiding" an even worse product (concrete).

My father, an Italian building contractor in NYC and Philadelphia, used "Roman Concrete" (pozzolanic ash) on select jobs -- this is widely used in Italy and fixes the underlying concrete problem permanently -- "Roman Concrete" lasts for 100s, 1000s of years unlike the **** here in the US.

US manufacturers won't sell it because they'd have zero follow-up business.

Interesting read with the article, thanks for providing it. While I admire the properties of Roman Concrete, the article states that it's not very practical for most of the world due to needing volcanic ash, volcanic rock, and seawater. That certainly wouldn't work for my location. Plus I don't need the concrete pad to last 100's or 1000's of years. Less than 100 is perfectly fine with me. I won't be here to care either way.

I just need the concrete protected from spills and normal working damage. Hence the Ballistix.
That looks great. Nice work.

I'm still mired in the patching/prepping phase, hoping to install this weekend.



@Armorpoxy, what is the curing time for this? Or how long to wait before Ballistix? (roughly, knowing that temp/humidity affect it)

I could not really find a hard answer in the packaging I got this week either.
Thanks.

When I was looking for instructions on Armorpoxy's website I found conflicting information on the curing time for 8400X. One video said 4 hours, somewhere else said 24 hours. I waited 48 hours. But without the TDS it's a complete guess. I should have called Armorpoxy to get the TDS instead of guessing.
 

Jayman17

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
3,793
Location
Seattle, Wa
Your floor looks great now, glad your re-do ended with you being happy. Now you can just 3njoy your shop and that nice looking floor. 👍

Jay
 

Toyo72

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
281
Nice work on the re-application. The result looks really great, so glad that it turned into a happy result.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
Day 5 of curing. Very happy with how it turned out. I'm waiting to start bringing in heavy stuff until after Day 7. From what I understand after 7 days Ballistix has fully cured and reached its maximum hardness.

Day 5 after application.jpg
 

Ignacio

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
19
Location
Missouri
@KPack if you happen to get any gas, brake cleaner, brake fluid, etc on the floor, please let me know how it holds up! Looks nice.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
@KPack if you happen to get any gas, brake cleaner, brake fluid, etc on the floor, please let me know how it holds up! Looks nice.
I plan to today or later this week. Now that I've reached the 7 days for full cure I'm ready to start using the shop. My truck developed a rear axle seal leak (second one in under a month...ugh), so I'll park it inside tonight and let it drip all over all the floor.

My quart of Ballistix shows up today, so I will prep the last bit of the floor and apply probably tomorrow night. Once that full-cures then the floor is totally done and I can just enjoy it. I have to say that I love walking into the shop and seeing the gorgeous floor right now. So satisfying.
 
OP
K

KPack

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
87
Location
Washington
Well....

I finally got a chance to lay down the last bit of Ballistix and it turned out poorly. Again. I adid everything the same as before, so I'm not sure what the deal is. My only guess is something with the pump sprayer. It was struggling last night to put out a good spray pattern.

The Ballistix beaded up again, just like the first time
More beading.jpg
Beading up close.jpg

It's frustrating to say the least. I debated just dumping the remaining 99% iso on it to strip it off, then just leave it with acrylic sealer. I don't have the time or the patience to continue to fight with the floor. 2 weeks to get more Ballistix, need to get more mop heads, time to prep and apply, etc. The floor has been an ongoing ordeal for over two months now. I'm over it.

I threw some water on the areas where Ballistix applied well, and then some on the newly applied and beaded area. Both rejected water about the same. Smooth Ballistix:
Water on smooth Ballistix.jpg

Rough Ballistix:
Water drops on rough Ballistix.jpg

At this point I may just leave it and move on. It's about 1/5-1/6 of the garage space, and it's not where I will be doing a lot of work on vehicles. As long as the floor is sealed I guess I can live with it.
 

kngelv

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
2,215
Location
Detroit, MI
I was glad to see your initial rework looked so much better. Sorry this last bit got messed up. I swear this whole floor chemical field is so frustrating to read about. Obviously you won't hear as much from the people who had a successful install but there are plenty of problem examples on this forum from nearly every type of surface chemical. I remember all those touting Rust Bullet and then all the problems that surfaced later. The so called warranty are barely worth the paper they are printed on.

James
 

sticktime

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
80
Location
VA
Well....

I finally got a chance to lay down the last bit of Ballistix and it turned out poorly. Again. I adid everything the same as before, so I'm not sure what the deal is. My only guess is something with the pump sprayer. It was struggling last night to put out a good spray pattern.

The Ballistix beaded up again, just like the first time
More beading.jpg
Beading up close.jpg

It's frustrating to say the least. I debated just dumping the remaining 99% iso on it to strip it off, then just leave it with acrylic sealer. I don't have the time or the patience to continue to fight with the floor. 2 weeks to get more Ballistix, need to get more mop heads, time to prep and apply, etc. The floor has been an ongoing ordeal for over two months now. I'm over it.

I threw some water on the areas where Ballistix applied well, and then some on the newly applied and beaded area. Both rejected water about the same. Smooth Ballistix:
Water on smooth Ballistix.jpg

Rough Ballistix:
Water drops on rough Ballistix.jpg

At this point I may just leave it and move on. It's about 1/5-1/6 of the garage space, and it's not where I will be doing a lot of work on vehicles. As long as the floor is sealed I guess I can live with it.
Feel your pain. One day when I'm caught up on projects, I'll prob resand and recoat my ballistix so that it looks as good as yours
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom