Band Saw recommendations

[DucRunner]

Hello fellow GJ members,
I'm a newbie home hobbyist that could use a little help for recommendations on what Vertical Band Saw to purchase.

Here's what I'll be using it for.
Stainless 304 16-18gauge 1.5-2" tubing

Amount of use:
Not sure yet but aside from using it on 2 projects, it will likely see very light use after that.

Budget:
I have a somewhat pragmatic approach on this.
Quality does mean a lot to me. So even if the machine gets light use I wouldn't see money spent on the purchase as a poor investment. I'm in it for the long-term.
($300-400 for a benchtop model, don't think I "need" anything bigger, maybe other folks can help guide me here.)

Preferences:
Would rather buy new but open to used if folks can point out things to look for on used equipment, i.e., things to steer clear from when signs of wear or mechanical abuse indicate trouble may be loomin.

Also, buying locally from a brick and mortar store to actually see and feel the equipment.

However, if someone points out an on-line retailer with quality products at competitive pricing, I'm not totally against that.

Thanks for the help.

 

[ezzzzzzz]

Sounds like you're building headers. Cutting tube on a bandsaw can be challenging. It often snags and rotates. This can damage the tube and blade. It could also pull your hand into the fray. SS is tough on blades too. Chocking the tubing down can be difficult especially with curves and tight cuts. The saw must be designed for cutting metal or the blade guides/rollers will fail. Blade choice for me would be a bimetal 20-24 tooth raker. All that said, I don't have a specific band saw to recommend. Based on your use I'd lean towards a quality 4" industrial cutoff tool, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SPEEDAIRE-Air-Cut-Off-Tool-5YAP9?Pid=search , an practice on mild steel tubing to get a feel for compound cuts before slicing into the SS.

 

[Ign]

So I guess you're looking for a vertical model? While this can be inferrred from your description you should clarify. BIG difference between horizontal and vertical bandsaws.

 

[DucRunner]

Sounds like you're building headers. Cutting tube on a bandsaw can be challenging. It often snags and rotates. This can damage the tube and blade. It could also pull your hand into the fray. SS is tough on blades too. Chocking the tubing down can be difficult especially with curves and tight cuts. The saw must be designed for cutting metal or the blade guides/rollers will fail. Blade choice for me would be a bimetal 20-24 tooth raker. All that said, I don't have a specific band saw to recommend. Based on your use I'd lean towards a quality 4" industrial cutoff tool, http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SPEEDAIRE-Air-Cut-Off-Tool-5YAP9?Pid=search , an practice on mild steel tubing to get a feel for compound cuts before slicing into the SS.

ez, yes, the projects are for building headers.

I do plan on practicing with mild steel. Mainly for getting the feel of it on more economical media. The safety issue is big for me too. I like having all my fingers and hands.

I've spent good money on a product that addresses quality, ease and safety of header fabrication. Just purchased the ICEengine works system. I purchased the optional pivoting work table cutting tool for use with the band saw.

With that said, I do need straight perfect cuts. I have a great Milwaukee cut off tool but I don't think the accuracy in cuts will be there if I use it for this purpose.

Here's what the header kit looks like in use.

(stock photo from ICE engine product web page, not my project.)

 

[57JoeFoMoPar]

I've made stainless headers before using a band saw. The one I was using though was huge and had dual ranges for cutting steel or wood, so it was not practical for hobbyist or home use. At home, I have an old (I think 1938-9) Delta 890, 14" band saw. I would recommend a saw of similar strength, like a later Delta, Walker-Turner or Powermatic. I especially like the Delta because the design was virtually unchanged for years and parts are easy to get. You can hot rod them with roller guides and all the goodies. The biggest issue for you cutting stainless is to have enough power to get through the hard steel and getting the machine to turn slow enough. You may need to get creative with a gear-driven transmission to slow it down, or a series of jack shafts and pulleys to slow it down. Mine has the latter, a Grob Brothers base with a series of step-down pulleys. I'd think you need at a least a 3/4 hp motor to power through.

 

[DucRunner]

So I guess you're looking for a vertical model? While this can be inferrred from your description you should clarify. BIG difference between horizontal and vertical bandsaws.

Thanks for pointing that out Ign.
You are correct, big difference between vertical and horizontal.
I'm looking for vertical.

I've made stainless headers before using a band saw. The one I was using though was huge and had dual ranges for cutting steel or wood, so it was not practical for hobbyist or home use. At home, I have an old (I think 1938-9) Delta 890, 14" band saw. I would recommend a saw of similar strength, like a later Delta, Walker-Turner or Powermatic. I especially like the Delta because the design was virtually unchanged for years and parts are easy to get. You can hot rod them with roller guides and all the goodies. The biggest issue for you cutting stainless is to have enough power to get through the hard steel and getting the machine to turn slow enough. You may need to get creative with a gear-driven transmission to slow it down, or a series of jack shafts and pulleys to slow it down. Mine has the latter, a Grob Brothers base with a series of step-down pulleys. I'd think you need at a least a 3/4 hp motor to power through.

I had not taken into consideration the band saw speed. A pulley system is likely a good option. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[DucRunner]

Hmm.., found one here with variable speed options.
Within budget.
But seems a little down on hp.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/JET-5-in...rking-Bandsaw-414458/100489508#specifications

 

[HMCFab9]

I have the JET model you linked to & it's very good for the price.
That's not a "vertical" bandsaw though.
The one in the iceengineworks photo is a true vertical bandsaw which works great for cutting header tubes.

 

[zkling]

Sorry sir, but you are dreaming. A $300-$400 NEW VERTICAL bandsaw that will cut stainless tubing without much fuss, ain't going to happen You really need to do some research into the topic.

You need to be down in the <125sfpm range. Most bench top bandsaws that you see at the big box store are designed for wood only and are running ~3000sfpm. Thus almost all the bandsaws designed for metal cutting have a gear box on the order of ~30:1-60:1 in them.

57Joe nailed it, those are about the best deal for the home shop, hard part is finding them. I have a few that I have lucked into over the years and they are by far the best little contraption going. To my knowledge the cheapest new veritcal bandsaw that has a gear box in it is from Jet and Wilton, a 14" model. IIRC they are ~$1K new these days. That is actually the saw that ICE designed that contraption to work on. No offense, but I'm a bit confused at your logic, you spent big bucks on a jig for the bandsaw that you don't even have and then you want to cheap out on the bandsaw?

http://www.icengineworks.com/icewmain.htm

Out of curiosity, what welder do you have that you plan on welding these with? What part of Texas are you in? AKA what does your local CL look like?

 

[Seiler]

Buy a *********** Milwaukee or Dewalt portaband and a SWAG offroad stand. Or build this for $80

x2

The Milwaukee's have 5" of throat to cut with, so you can technically cut anything up to 5" in diameter if you want to.

I recently purchased a Milwaukee 6232-21 saw & SWAG Offroad stand and love it. Variable speed, easily change to different TPI count blades, has a little LED light and I can disconnect it and have a portable band saw! Not to mention it is within your price range.

 

[DucRunner]

I have the JET model you linked to & it's very good for the price.
That's not a "vertical" bandsaw though.
The one in the iceengineworks photo is a true vertical bandsaw which works great for cutting header tubes.

Product is both horizontal and vertical.
Are you saying this wont work as vertical for my application or just doesn't work well vertical period?

 

[zkling]

Product is both horizontal and vertical.
Are you saying this wont work as horizontal for my application or just doesn't work well vertical period?

Both., Well you can use it pretty well in horizontal mode to cut tubing for headers, but the table you bought isn't going to work with it in "vertical" mode without heavy modification.

 

[DucRunner]

Sorry sir, but you are dreaming. A $300-$400 NEW VERTICAL bandsaw that will cut stainless tubing without much fuss, ain't going to happen You really need to do some research into the topic.

You need to be down in the <125sfpm range. Most bench top bandsaws that you see at the big box store are designed for wood only and are running ~3000sfpm. Thus almost all the bandsaws designed for metal cutting have a gear box on the order of ~30:1-60:1 in them.

Thanks for the info regarding specific cutting speed.
This is part of being a noob. Not knowing what you don't know.
With that said, I don't think I'm "dreaming."
I'm just comparing apples to oranges. Most of the big box stores I've looked at don't necessarily divulge info on specific media applications the band saws will accept. Which is why I'm coming here for recommendations. I know what I'm going to use the saw for, I just don't know what features the saw needs to have.

S57Joe nailed it, those are about the best deal for the home shop, hard part is finding them. I have a few that I have lucked into over the years and they are by far the best little contraption going. To my knowledge the cheapest new veritcal bandsaw that has a gear box in it is from Jet and Wilton, a 14" model. IIRC they are ~$1K new these days. That is actually the saw that ICE designed that contraption to work on. No offense, but I'm a bit confused at your logic, you spent big bucks on a jig for the bandsaw that you don't even have and then you want to cheap out on the bandsaw?

http://www.icengineworks.com/icewmain.htm

Yes, the logic is not congruent with what your inferring my approach is. No offense taken, but there is a more polite way to tell someone their budget for a quality saw needs to be rethought. But thanks for pointing this out regardless. I'll take your opinion as food for thought but will wait for others to respond before making a decision on budget.

Is there something you were pointing out by posting the ICE engine works web site? It takes me to main home page, which I'm familiar with. Maybe pointing this out for others to review pricing? Anyways, not relevant to my thread discussion.

Out of curiosity, what welder do you have that you plan on welding these with? What part of Texas are you in? AKA what does your local CL look like?

Welding will be done by my buddy who does tig. I don't know what welder he uses. I'm in San Antonio. CL is somewhat active and I've searched the tools section for the last 2 weeks. But again, not clear on what features the saw needs to have to make me feel confident about making a used purchase.

Thanks for your input. I welcome all constructive comments.

 

[DucRunner]

Buy a *********** Milwaukee or Dewalt portaband and a SWAG offroad stand. Or build this for $80

x2

The Milwaukee's have 5" of throat to cut with, so you can technically cut anything up to 5" in diameter if you want to.

I recently purchased a Milwaukee 6232-21 saw & SWAG Offroad stand and love it. Variable speed, easily change to different TPI count blades, has a little LED light and I can disconnect it and have a portable band saw! Not to mention it is within your price range.

Thanks Douglezzz, Seiler. I'll keep this tool in mind.
One question. Is there a way to attach a plate for holding material at the blade?

 

[DucRunner]

Both., Well you can use it pretty well in horizontal mode to cut tubing for headers, but the table you bought isn't going to work with it in "vertical" mode without heavy modification.

Got it. I'll cross it off the list.
Thanks.

 

[yaidunno]

I would highly suggest buying a quality used piece of equipment. This was had for under $400. Some fresh paint and a new blade had it back in service. Hi/Lo range for metal or wood.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Can't help on where to find one, but I guess what I did is in your price range. I bought an old vertical 20 inch bandsaw without motor from a school disposal sale for $30, and added a 30:1 ratio gearbox and chain drive from a salvage yard. The original gearbox motor was 3 phase, so I replaced it with a single phase NEMA C face single phase 120 volt motor. Ended up with about $60 in it. If I was to do it today, I would use a 3 phase motor along with a VFD for variable speed. I also use a Portaband in an upright position with a small table attached, but this would not accept the tooling you have. Just throwing out ideas for you.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Also, be aware that bandsaws have "drift" in them, which is that the blade does not always cut in a straight line relative to the table, especially when cutting metal. This will come into play with your fixture, which may require a beefy frame metal saw to work properly. I cut several types of metal every day on the work saw, and rarely if ever does the blade cut straight relative to the table. Here's the best cut I ever made.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83880

 

[DucRunner]

I would highly suggest buying a quality used piece of equipment. This was had for under $400. Some fresh paint and a new blade had it back in service. Hi/Lo range for metal or wood.

Sound advice.
Here's one for sale locally.
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/4158798565.html

Any feedback on brand model is greatly appreciated.

Can't help on where to find one, but I guess what I did is in your price range. I bought an old vertical 20 inch bandsaw without motor from a school disposal sale for $30, and added a 30:1 ratio gearbox and chain drive from a salvage yard. The original gearbox motor was 3 phase, so I replaced it with a single phase NEMA C face single phase 120 volt motor. Ended up with about $60 in it. If I was to do it today, I would use a 3 phase motor along with a VFD for variable speed. I also use a Portaband in an upright position with a small table attached, but this would not accept the tooling you have. Just throwing out ideas for you.

I'll definitely keep looking in my local CL.
Thanks.

Also, be aware that bandsaws have "drift" in them, which is that the blade does not always cut in a straight line relative to the table, especially when cutting metal. This will come into play with your fixture, which may require a beefy frame metal saw to work properly. I cut several types of metal every day on the work saw, and rarely if ever does the blade cut straight relative to the table. Here's the best cut I ever made.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83880

Amazing freehand cut.

 

[yaidunno]

Sound advice.
Here's one for sale locally.
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/4158798565.html

Any feedback on brand model is greatly appreciated.

Seems like a reasonable saw, but i believe its a wood only saw. A saw of this nature absolutely can not be used for cutting metal. Surface feet per minute of the blade will be in the thousands, where as you will need in the low 100's.

As far as brand, i'd stick to Delta, Walker Turner, and DoAll if going used. Im fairly sure Jet makes a Delta clone of the 14" that has a 2 speed gear box. Might not be a bad route to go.

 

[zkling]

That is just a cheap basic wood cutting bandsaw. For metal you would need to install a ~30:1-50:1 gear box between the motor and the saw. If you can find a cheap gear box, great, otherwise purchasing a new gear box is going to be very $$$$$$. That does have a riser block which is nice.

The saw yaidunno posted is the modern version of the saw I have and what Joe was talking about above. Although it looks similar from the front, it actually has a built in gear reduction system for metal cutting speeds.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Roller and belt type conveyors use the type of gearbox you would need. I buy them for around $30 at the local industrial salvage yard. Surplus Center may have some online.

 

[DucRunner]

Found one on fleabay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACHINISTS-...769?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485c32b6c1

But no shipping.

 

[zkling]

Yep, that is what you are going to want.

Check your PM

 

[Seiler]

Thanks Douglezzz, Seiler. I'll keep this tool in mind.
One question. Is there a way to attach a plate for holding material at the blade?

Can you go into detail what you mean? Theoretically, you could build what you're referring to (I think, if I understand you correctly). How large of a plate are you talking?

Here is a link to a thread here with some examples of what other people have done, including some pictures of the SWAG off road table I was referring to (Post #27 in the linked thread). Might be worth checking out.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101714

 

[DucRunner]

Can you go into detail what you mean? Theoretically, you could build what you're referring to (I think, if I understand you correctly). How large of a plate are you talking?

Here is a link to a thread here with some examples of what other people have done, including some pictures of the SWAG off road table I was referring to (Post #27 in the linked thread). Might be worth checking out.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101714

Thanks for posting this link!
Yes, the swag v4 table looks to be exactly what I need.
My workspace is limited, so adding a large machine comes as a compromise. Plus my media choice is small diameter steel tubing.

 

[Seiler]

Thanks for posting this link!
Yes, the swag v4 table looks to be exactly what I need.
My workspace is limited, so adding a large machine comes as a compromise. Plus my media choice is small diameter steel tubing.

Very happy to help. I love mine and have no problem boasting about it. If you find the right associate inside home depot you can score your saw for 25% off with a Harbor Freight coupon, which is how I purchased mine.

Let us know what you decide!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I would highly suggest buying a quality used piece of equipment. This was had for under $400. Some fresh paint and a new blade had it back in service. Hi/Lo range for metal or wood.

+! !

12-14" older Craftsman/Delta/Porter Cable with the optional gear box, which is the hard thing to find. I have also seen it done with a jackshaft and different size pulleys. The benefit of this set up is that it multiplies the torque of the motor.

Got to get the right blade as mentioned.

 

[gus1962]

My very first option would be a horizontal band saw. Fabricate a table so I could use it either horizontal or vertical. Good luck! And get good quality blades.