Bank Barn style

[wayout]

I am in the planning stages of my new garage/shop and am considering a 'bank barn' type of building.
This style is appropriate since two sides of the ground floor will be dug into a hillside that will be backfilled to the building. Grade being to the left side and behind the garage first floor. Supports and bracing will be designed as appropriate.
Obviously a two story building, I want to install a garage door for the upper level accessed from the upper grade. Does anyone have actual experience with this type of construction? Any examples out there? I haven't had much luck searching.
Either precast concrete floor or poured concrete will be used for the second level floor to allow heavier loads than can be obtained by floor joists.
Garage dimensions are roughly 30wx50d and the second story only 30x25 leaving half the first floor open to the roof for lift clearance.

 

[ace10]

I absolutely love a good looking bank barn. We have rolling hills here, so there are tons of them. But most built decades or centuries ago. Can't recall seeing anyone actually constructing one, though.

If you have a really healthy budget, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to recommend King. My neighbor has had them put up several high dollar buildings on their farm.

King's website even has a section dedicated to bank barns. And they are some really nice ones!

https://www.kingbarns.com/bank-barns/

Probably won't cost a penny to reach out to them.

I've used a PA Amish builder for a winery project that I managed, but I don't know if they've done anything like what you're envisioning. We had a need for a significant capacity on the storage loft (bottled wine) and they used structural graded 2X12s.

Good luck.

 

[paredown]

I have plans to do something the same.

These threads caught my interest, although he ended up with a loft area up top, not a full two floors. There have been others in the Gallery that have done more like you are describing, but I found searching for them difficult--and did not save links.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212873

Second version of garage build:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387059

 

[wayout]

Thanks for the links ace10 and paredown!
That is exactly the kind of info that I am looking for.
I will start a Bank Barn Build thread when I begin building but for now I appreciate any advice and comments.

 

[bbxlr8]

Those King ones are gorgeous and some are near me in mid-eastern PA.

FWIW I am on a ridge and my detached is 40'x40' is built like a bank barn into the hill. I did not build and would have changed a lot including the interior like you are planning since I do not have enough height for a lift. Lower level construction was poured (like a reg. foundation) and is stick-built but frustratingly hip-roofed w/ 15' high inside the attic top center section. It must have been aesthetic to the original owner but stupid and expensive for less space in my book

My project last summer was to add a 16'x16 flat-faced shed dormer in the back with double doors for storage access. I wish it was poured floor but is 2x12 wood framed supported by steel beamed across the center (2 poles). I could mezzanine a section for a lift and keeping that option open as I did not mess with the front area yet up top. It would have been SO easy to do up initally so it's a good move doing research here.

ALSO, My friend did a bank-style combo up in the Scranton area @ 50 x 50 but spec'ed full 12' height lower (his car/play area) and about 16' height in the upper (work stuff). It was SUPER HD steel frame; poured floors w/ concrete block wall for storage of work trucks/equipment etc. up top He managed the project and ended up @ about 80K.

I am grateful for what I have although my old house's 3 car was much better set up for actual work and this is taking me forever with life stuff in the way.

I come on here for inspiration from you all!!

 

[Lynden]

Here are a few pictures and some information.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bar...8HDQIHZzgAOAQ_AUoAXoECCQQAw&biw=1142&bih=1019

http://www.heartlandscience.org/barns

Basement barn pictures.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bas...UdJjQIHYK_A4kQ_AUoAnoECCIQBA&biw=1142&bih=994

 

[wayout]

Many great ideas in those links. I appreciate them!
I never heard of them being referred to as a basement barn but it makes sense, could be a regional thing.
I am replacing a small gambrel roof garage that has served me for years. It has an upper floor barn door with a beam and trolley system extending outside. I like the ability to move heavy items upstairs with it but think that having access to drive into the second floor will be better.
I will be moving woodworking tools and storing some heavy auto parts upstairs so I will design it to support the weight of my 4k forklift moving those things.
Downstairs will be an area in front for my lift which is 14' high and I'll have weight bearing walls located farther back leaving enough room for two high bays side by side at the front.
I plan on a gable roof with the two first floor doors entering from the gable end and the upstairs door entering under the eaves on the left side towards the back.

 

[firebirdparts]

I have a lift on my 2nd floor. The floor is concrete on bar trusses. There are threads on this about every 2 months so there is some quality discussion already if you can find it. Keywords are the problem. Everybody titles his thread a different way.

It’s been great; the temperature effects in my shop are greatly appreciated, it looks a lot better than it otherwise would have, and my lift is through-bolted to the floor. I’m very happy with it.

 

[atch]

I can relate some of my experiences:

In the 60's and early 70's I spent four summers (high school and college years) working on 3 different construction crews building houses. Two of them put rooms under garages as a normal practice. The first one formed up the main floor garage floor with plywood over VERY substantial bracing underneath and used lots of steel in the slab. After sufficient cure time we removed the bracing and plywood. All of that material got used in the building of the house, so there was no actual cost of materials for the formwork of the garage slab.

The next used corrugated steel forms. I don't know what exactly this is called, but it looked like barn roof and stayed in place forever. I seem to remember that we put in temporary bracing underneath 'til the concrete cured.

Both of these contractors put 2 car garages on the main level of the house, formed and poured as above. I don't know if they had an engineer spec out how to form/pour or not. They may have been doing this using common sense, I just don't know. IIRC, they both had one supporting post dead center under these garages down to the basement garage floor and substantial footing below that post.

Another one I can point out is an over/under garage where I went to look at a car for sale some years back. The upper floor of that building was totally wood. I remember that the floor joists were on 12" centers but don't remember how big those joists were. They were 2 by somethings but who knows how wide. I became more interested in the construction of the building than the car itself (parked below), which I didn't buy. He had a '67 SS Impala parked in the upper garage. I don't know how much a big block Impala weighs but they aren't lightweights. The actual flooring material was plywood. I think he said that there were two layers of 3/4" ply, but again I don't remember for sure. It was painted with gray floor paint and looked pretty good. I don't remember if he had any support posts below or not.

The last experience I had was at the hospital where I worked for most of my career. Because we added on to the building we needed larger water softeners. This entailed installing larger salt tanks. We got our salt in either a dump truck pulling a pup or one of the large semi trailer dump trucks. We had no inside place we could repurpose for salt tanks so we added a subterranean room adjacent to the building. This room had a larger footprint than the 2 car garages mentioned above. This room has no post to help hold up the roof/driveway. It has two hatches in it above the salt tanks that the dump trucks unload into, pouring the salt directly into the tanks below. This roof/driveway has the corrugated forms that are still there. Note: the dump trucks back directly onto this roof/driveway to dump. I can't say for sure how heavy they are but can guarantee that they weigh many times over what a couple of cars would weigh in a garage or bank barn. I do remember asking the engineer who designed it about the live load it could carry and he assured me that it had twice the strength required to hold up a loaded concrete truck or a fire truck or a loaded dump truck (i.e.; the heaviest legal loads).

You live right in Pennsylvania bank barn country so you know that those barns had wooden floors on the upper level that were/are strong enough to pull loaded wagons and tractors and implements onto without collapsing. I doubt that there were any engineers designing those floors 200 years ago. I'm not suggesting that you needn't use one now though. We have courts full of liability suits now that they didn't have.

 

[matt_i]

They are beautiful buildings no doubt. You're building a basement, and it deserves best foundation treatment you'd put in your own house with a basement expecting it to be dry.

The beauty of modern technologies is the development of things like filter fabrics and silt-socks which keep clay fines from filling up/clogging the foundation drain tiles.

I expect costs will be on-par, square-footage-wise with a house, "3 pour" pad footing, concrete walls and the concrete floor.

Your comment about driving a forklift on the 2nd floor deserves special consideration, there are some very concentrated loads on the front tires, if you have a 4k (Capacity) machine its not far out of the question to have 8000 lb loading between the front tires....I expect that part to exceed what a house would cost, square-footage-wise because of the heavy structure. It might be less expensive to pour it parking-deck style with concrete and steel, than try to build it with wood at current prices.

As always we would love pics of the progress!

 

[HoosierMark]

Friend of mine liked prestressed concrete beams for his house floors. He and his brother used them on several houses for both house and garage areas with basements. Also I would see if there are any bridge builders in the area to see if they have some knowledge to share about decking. Around here they are using open metal decking for bridges on the county roads. I have often thought how a simple wood floor would work great over the top of this surface.

 

[usacustom]

I have a lift on my 2nd floor. The floor is concrete on bar trusses. There are threads on this about every 2 months so there is some quality discussion already if you can find it. Keywords are the problem. Everybody titles his thread a different way.

It’s been great; the temperature effects in my shop are greatly appreciated, it looks a lot better than it otherwise would have, and my lift is through-bolted to the floor. I’m very happ

Was your flooring wood planks prior to doing the concrete slab? If so, do you mind pm'ing me your email address if you don't mind me asking you a few questions on that?

 

[kbs2244]

I would check your area for a concrete guy who has done homes with "walk out basements." He will have experience with the large doors openings in a foundation.