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Barn Heat Question

AW-Barn

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Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Messages
5
Location
Gregory, MI
I have a 24*40 Pole barn with 16 foot high ceilings. The walls have some insulation, Mainly 2 inch thick foam board. I will eventually add more insulation to it, The ceiling is uninstalled for now. I do have Natural gas coming right off the meter ran under ground to the inside of the barn.

I plan on adding a 120,000 BTU MR. Heater mounted heater on a WiFi thermostat so i can adjust it when ever i want.

My question is do you think that will work for my situation? I live in Michigan and would just like to get the inside to 55-60 when im working in there (outside being 20 for example), I dont need it to get to those temps when its -10 outside. I dont run a business or anything in there so if i can use it its not a big deal.
 
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theoldwizard1

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Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,076
Location
SE MI
With your limited amount of insulation, I think you will have a hard time getting to 50 when the temps are in the 20s. Also, without duct work, the far corners will be very cold.
 
OP
A

AW-Barn

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Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Messages
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Location
Gregory, MI
I plan on doing blow in insulation behind the plywood between the foam board and osb walls. I am okay with the corners being a little colder as my work area is in the center.
 

Bert_

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Dec 24, 2016
Messages
9,690
Location
NW Iowa
Does it have a ceiling? That will make a big difference, most of the heat is lost through the ceiling. If your going to insulate I would size the heater for that.

I can heat my garage to 60* in 0* weather with a 70,000 btu heater. It's the same 24x40 but 9' ceiling. The walls and ceiling are lined with 1x's and no insulation other than an inch of old vermiculite in the attic.
 
Last edited:

Lassen Forge

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Apr 26, 2014
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14,997
Location
The romantic hills of central Umbria, Italy,
You will need double the insulation, double the heaters, or both. I have 135K in my much smaller shop, and it fills the bill to about 0, keeping it about 40-ish (plus or minus) consistantly... but for that I put in a loft via a false ceiling at 8 1/2' to trap the heat lower...

There is a county building at a fairgrounds up north about your size that runs a double 120K heat system to keep it warm (as in 68F) in the winter... Again, it has a lower ceiling. You may also need a way to mix the air to get the heat down out of your roof.

Good luck with your project!
 

Showkey

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Wausau WI
Not being a smart ***........but...........if you took the insulation out of home, how do think it would heat ?

No insulation especially in the ceiling is like trying to heat the barn with the doors open.

The next issue during the snow season........ice dams on the roof will be a huge problem.
Inside barn roof condensation and dripping will also be a huge concern.......when the warm moist air hit the cold roof.

A large torpedo heater aimed right at the work area would be the only solution with little or no insulation.
 
Last edited:

nadogail

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Jan 23, 2009
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31,899
Location
Coronado, CA
Will any of the work done in your barn produce heat?

At my last employer, the weldor planned his hot work for early in the day to warm his shop.
 
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finn

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Mar 27, 2005
Messages
16,181
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The UP, God's country
I wouldn’t even try it until you insulate the ceiling and improve the insulation in the walls.

After you insulate, 75k btu should be fine.

You may as well build a fire in the corner and feed it dollar bills for heat if you don’t fix the insulation

A 75k propane heater keeps my 32x54 with part 13’ and part 10’ ceilings, and threes garage doors, a man door, plus five large windows plenty warm, and I am probably at least 200 miles north of you.
 

b-boy

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Oct 2, 2013
Messages
2,155
Location
Buffalo NY
I live in Buffalo, NY so I have similar weather.

I have a 60k forced air furnace (without much ductwork) running in my 30'x40'x12' pole barn. I have about 6 feet of ductwork to vent it through a wall I created for a small utility room.

I have R40 fiberglass batts in the ceiling and R21 (2" taped/foamed foamboard (R10) and fiberglass batts (R11)) in the walls. I have R10 insulated doors. I can keep the place in the mid 70s when it's below freezing outside. The cost to heat the place are minimal.

Before I added the insulated ceiling I couldn't get the place above 50 during the winter. Heating it to that would take all day.

You definitely want to insulate before adding a heater. It's not cheap, but it's worth it.
 

That1Guy

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May 9, 2014
Messages
76
Location
Mid Michigan
I'm not trying to spend your money. This suggestion may seem extreme and it IS expensive, but hear me out. I would seriously consider removing the osb walls and having the existing foam board sprayed with 2 or 3" of closed cell foam. Not only will it increase your r-value, but it will also make the walls air tight - no more Michigan winter winds cutting through the cracks and sucking your heat away. And an additional benefit is how it gives the building a huge structural boost. I could not believe how much the walls tightened up on my pole barn when they sprayed it. It honestly made a serious difference.

Yes, I know it's a lot of money to have it sprayed. Trust me I know. I had to make some huge sacrifices to make it happen in my barn. But I can honestly say that I have no regrets. It cost me a ceiling for 2 years. Instead of the steel panels for my ceiling (plus a few other items), I put that money towards spray foam. So for the last 2 winters I have only had a sheet of thick mill plastic stapled to the trusses - far more effective than I expected but still, it was NO ceiling. I couldn't even blow in the insulation because the plastic certainly wouldn't have supported it. Even so, I had no problems keeping it warm enough to work in over the past 2 winters even with just a plastic ceiling. Along with being without ceiling panels in the shop, I was also without a garage (still am actually) because the front garage is still FULL to the rafters with bags of cellulose that I'd already bought before deciding on the spray foam and told the wife it would only be there for a week or so - oops.

All that to say that later today I should be driving the last of the ceiling panel screws and will then begin the work of finally blowing in the attic insulation. But already I have benefitted from postponing the ceiling in order to have it sprayed. I cannot recommend it enough. And in your situation, since you are covering up foam board, the spray foam wont be sticking to the back side of your siding - which is a PITA to deal with if you ever need to replace any siding later. So you'd be safe on that one. Also, as I said, the spray foam will make the walls basically air tight!

OK, enough. Sorry about the long post. I just can't say enough about the foam and it's advantages. I'm so so glad I went that route and like I said, I have no regrets about it. Even without any insulation in the attic yet, it's been so easy to heat it with a little propane heater while installing the ceiling panels so I'm really stoked to see what kind of difference the blown cellulose is going to make. While waiting 2 years on the ceiling, I was able to gradually add enough bags of cellulose to the pile to fill the attic to 20". My hope is that I'll be able to raise the room temperature one degree simply by breaking wind. :lol:

Best of luck on your barn and please be sure to post back here and let us know what you decide to do. We all enjoy reading about choices other guys go with to build their shops. Maybe you could also consider making a build thread and keep us all posted as you progress through the build. I love build threads. Again, at least consider the spray foam. I highly recommend it. As do many of the members here. In fact, it was here at GJ that convinced me to spray my own barn. Either way, let us know what you decide. I'll be watching this thread for sure. Us Michiganders gotta stick together ya know!
:rocker:
 

Showkey

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Messages
8,638
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Time to come back to earth...........$$$$$

When you factor in cost, fiberglass gives you a better immediate payoff. While spray foam’s top-notch thermal performance costs you an arm and a leg, fiberglass provides a similarly impressive output for only a fraction of the cost.
 

yeldogt

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Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
18,184
The OP has not been back ... sounds like he has osb walls up already. Not the best.

Fiberglass is bad when there is no proper air sealing ..... need something heavier
 

stokefire7

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2011
Messages
616
I'm not trying to spend your money. This suggestion may seem extreme and it IS expensive, but hear me out. I would seriously consider removing the osb walls and having the existing foam board sprayed with 2 or 3" of closed cell foam. Not only will it increase your r-value, but it will also make the walls air tight - no more Michigan winter winds cutting through the cracks and sucking your heat away. And an additional benefit is how it gives the building a huge structural boost. I could not believe how much the walls tightened up on my pole barn when they sprayed it. It honestly made a serious difference.

Yes, I know it's a lot of money to have it sprayed. Trust me I know. I had to make some huge sacrifices to make it happen in my barn. But I can honestly say that I have no regrets. It cost me a ceiling for 2 years. Instead of the steel panels for my ceiling (plus a few other items), I put that money towards spray foam. So for the last 2 winters I have only had a sheet of thick mill plastic stapled to the trusses - far more effective than I expected but still, it was NO ceiling. I couldn't even blow in the insulation because the plastic certainly wouldn't have supported it. Even so, I had no problems keeping it warm enough to work in over the past 2 winters even with just a plastic ceiling. Along with being without ceiling panels in the shop, I was also without a garage (still am actually) because the front garage is still FULL to the rafters with bags of cellulose that I'd already bought before deciding on the spray foam and told the wife it would only be there for a week or so - oops.

All that to say that later today I should be driving the last of the ceiling panel screws and will then begin the work of finally blowing in the attic insulation. But already I have benefitted from postponing the ceiling in order to have it sprayed. I cannot recommend it enough. And in your situation, since you are covering up foam board, the spray foam wont be sticking to the back side of your siding - which is a PITA to deal with if you ever need to replace any siding later. So you'd be safe on that one. Also, as I said, the spray foam will make the walls basically air tight!

OK, enough. Sorry about the long post. I just can't say enough about the foam and it's advantages. I'm so so glad I went that route and like I said, I have no regrets about it. Even without any insulation in the attic yet, it's been so easy to heat it with a little propane heater while installing the ceiling panels so I'm really stoked to see what kind of difference the blown cellulose is going to make. While waiting 2 years on the ceiling, I was able to gradually add enough bags of cellulose to the pile to fill the attic to 20". My hope is that I'll be able to raise the room temperature one degree simply by breaking wind. :lol:

Best of luck on your barn and please be sure to post back here and let us know what you decide to do. We all enjoy reading about choices other guys go with to build their shops. Maybe you could also consider making a build thread and keep us all posted as you progress through the build. I love build threads. Again, at least consider the spray foam. I highly recommend it. As do many of the members here. In fact, it was here at GJ that convinced me to spray my own barn. Either way, let us know what you decide. I'll be watching this thread for sure. Us Michiganders gotta stick together ya know!
:rocker:

I'm with you in that one.
 

VTX1800

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
24
Location
Near Council Bluffs Iowa
About twenty years ago I built a 26 x 34 garage with 10 foot side walls. I wired the building and got the side walls insulated and sheet-ed before winter came. I had a wood burner and with no ceiling in the garage I burned a lot of wood before I could get it comfortably warm. The next summer I insulated the ceiling with six inch Fiberglas and sheet-ed it with quarter inch plywood cut offs (it was cheap), I used to say I could light a match and it was warmed up........that was a lie but it took much less wood and the temperature was much easier to keep comfortable. Most of the heat will exit through the ceiling so that is the first place you should insulate.
 
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