Barn on natural gas generator/off grid?

[nirion]

I have a 30x48x12 pole barn on 4 (soon to be 8) acres. That is all that is on the land right now. We plan to build in the next year or two (hopefully sooner rather than later).

Electricity is available, but costs about $2700 to connect to the barn for 200 amp service. Natural gas is also available. My thought was to get a natural gas generator (12-15kw) to use for power when I am out at the barn for now, then it can be a backup standy generator after we build and have grid power connected. Right now I have a 5kw gas generator I use to plug things in with extension cords. I would wire the barn with lights and outlets if I went this route (this would also allow me to use 220 items like a larger air compressor, vs the 30 gallon oil free one I have now).

Any thoughts/suggestions to this? I woud want it to be manually turned on for now since i am not out there much and would then use it as a standby once we build.

Thanks

 

[theoldwizard1]

Done correctly, this would be a good option !

My only concern would be, how many hours would that generator run before you got a permanent electrical hook up ? I'm guessing NOT 24x7, but make a realistic estimate, then talk to the manufacturer about what kind of hours between engine overhauls.

Wire the barn as you would for any electrical service. The only thing different is that the main will come off the generator and not off the meter. A 100A panel would pop the breaker on the generator long before the mains.

 

[nirion]

Thanks.
I would say less than 20 hours per week, probably much less. I live 30 min away and don't get out there as much as I would like. Even if I am out there, I wouldn't always need power. As far as the main panel, I would check the generator specs and stay below that. Looks like about 58 amps on a 14kw, so a 50amp main for now if I went with that one.

Would any of the major names be good for this or is there something specific I should look for? Would I just use it without the automatic standby transfer panel for now and then install that when we build?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Thanks.
I would say less than 20 hours per week, probably much less.

That could add up to 1,000 hrs/year. Most good "permanent" mount generators do include hour meters. Follow recommended maintenance guidelines.

Would any of the major names be good for this or is there something specific I should look for?

Generac or Briggs & Straton in your size range. Check eBay. Manufacturer refurb units show up there, with full factory warranties, often.

Would I just use it without the automatic standby transfer panel for now and then install that when we build?

Yes.

 

[sberry]

After he dumps 4 dollars an hour in fuel the electric hook up will look like a bargain.

 

[nirion]

If I wasn't planning on getting the generator for the house anyway, it obviously wouldn't make sense.

The Kohler 14RESA (12kw on ng) uses 121 cu ft/hour at 1/2 load. According to my bill, gas is $0.59/ccf (100 cu ft). There is also a natural gas delivery fee. So my summer gas bill (5ccf) makes is close to $4/ccf. In the winter (128ccf), it is under $1/ccf. It definately isn't cost effective for long term, but probably not too bad for a year or so of limited use. I'll have to run the numbers a little more to get average ccf price over a year. Also, I wll have a different supplier out there, so I will need to check with their costs vs the one at my house now.

I'll keep a look out for a deal on one, but am in no rush right now.

I appreciate the input and any other suggestions. Maybe solar is worth looking into, but not sure if that would be too great here in OH.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Maybe solar is worth looking into, but not sure if that would be too great here in OH.

Solar is VERY expensive to install )but cheap to operate !).

If you are running lights and an occasional hand power tool (circular saw, drill) you will get by.

There are 240V inverters system, but they are just double 120V system. So double EVERYTHING !

Also remember, that large solar systems use LARGE flooded (liquid) lead acid batteries that require regular maintenance. They also don't last forever.

 

[eljefino]

Find out more about this $2700. Is it cheaper if there's a residence? What if you are running a "farm": get some chickens or something. THere are all kinds of rural electrification breaks.

 

[nirion]

Find out more about this $2700. Is it cheaper if there's a residence? What if you are running a "farm": get some chickens or something. THere are all kinds of rural electrification breaks.

I'll check into the farm piece, but it is not cheaper if it is a residence. My friend built a new house near by (same electric co) and his was even higher since he had to come back from the road. I think his was almost $4000. I have power poles going through the back/middle of my property.

The $2700 price includes me digging the trench (~100ft) and providing the meter base. They install the transformer, all wires to the base, and the meter socket.

 

[lametec]

That $2700 will also probably be $3500 in a year or two.

I think you'll be better off getting the power installed now. It'll cost you $20-30/month on top of actual usage, but you won't spend money on gas/ng.

 

[VHF]

Keep in mind that many of the less expesnive generators are only designed for backup use to grid power. Any other use may void the warranty. There are generators designed for continuous operations, but these are substaintially more expensive.

If you can't meet your immediate power needs with a portable generator, I would vote for putting the $2700 towrds getting the grid power now if you are planning to get it within the next two years anyway.

 

[nirion]

I'm going to look into a small solar setup just for lights and maybe a small radio (so I don't have to fire up the generator to walk in and grab something) and then use the portable generator for the bigger stuff. Something that small shouldn't cost too much and no monthly bills.

Thanks for keeping me on the right path

 

[RCStocker]

I read your post. Barn and natural gas. It cracked me up.
I am sorry but I can see it now..... You are going to hook up a series of pipe lines to the cows and use the natural gas. A new way to go green. LOL
You could take the manure and put it in a box and creat your own gas and take it off the top At todays prices of gas you might be farther ahead to get a herd of cows. LOL

I am an old fram boy and milked cows 50 years ago by hand. We kept the milk in the milk house with cool water running from the windmill.

I know that is not realted but some times headings just crack me up.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Do you already have a natural gas service installed, or will you have to pay an installation fee for that as well?

 

[ishiboo]

Kohler is also another option, similar to the Generac/Centurion units but perhaps slightly better quality for a very similar price.

I'd invest right away in grid power and then do the generator last though. Inexpensive backup generators are made for just that - backup, and won't last long when used for prime power.

If natural gas and power are from the same company as they are here, see what kind of discount(s) you can work even though they may be different install teams. And realize that winter installation will be 2X what summer is, and their definition of winter begins far sooner than you think

 

[nirion]

Gas and electric are from 2 different companies. They both still need connected, I was just thinking the electric would be easier to run from a house main to the barn instead of the other way, or having to pay again to have it moved.

The Kohler units looked nicer and more efficient than the Generac, and the Onan/Cummins units looked nicer yet (but way more $$). The 1800rpm models seem to be made for longer use, but are again more money. Guess I may just have to bite the bullet if I can't figure out a solution using the solar/gas generator combo for now (or just stick with gas generator like I do now).

Thanks again

 

[sr71]

...VHF makes a good point on duty cycle. If you go the generator route (and I do like that idea), double check that you can run whatever continuous high amp draw equipment you are thinking about (an ARC or MIG welder comes to mind).