Bars on a window for security?

[Capt Chrysler]

Hello Folks,

I have a warehouse building with "stuff" in it. Have any of you ever added bars to the inside of your windows?

This was recommended by the insurance company. But, they could / would not recommend one brand or a custom manufacturer.

Matter of fact, I couldn't even get a recommended bar spec from them.


Thanks

Capt. Chrysler

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Around here in Chicago most people just fabricate them themselves...otherwise a wrought iron fence company can custom fab them up

If you don’t care about looks you can mount standard sections of metal fence to the wall over the window




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[Richard Cranium]

just make sure you can get out of the building incase of fire.

 

[38Chevy454]

I just built my own out of some 1/2 square tubing. Welded at the cross between tubes, and put flat tabs on the ends where I bolted long lags screws into the wood framing. Don't have a picture handy thanks to photobucket, but it had one vertical bar behind the center bar for the windows, and two horizontal. So six tabs bolted to the frame. Approx 1 x 1.5 ft squares.

 

[James-W]

Just a thought here, and not saying you shouldn't do it, but if you put bars over a window doesn't that automatically tell potential thieves there is something valuable in this building?

 

[toolmiser]

Excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't the bars be hardened since a battery operated reciprocating saw would saw right thru them? Of course if they were hardened you could still go thru with a grinder. I guess it's a matter of making your place more resistant than the others.

 

[Rob Watkins]

I built mine from flat bar. Put on the inside. Rebar runs through the block wall with washer welded on the outside. So all you see is 4 round black washers from the outside. I figured if someone was breaking a window they would not be prepared for steel a bars and just run. If they can see it 1st they have time to plan.

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[Falcon67]

That's a fire code violation in some places, depending.

 

[Stinger]

You can also use expanded metal to cover them. If outside you'd have to put it in a frame. If mounted inside you can screw it directly to the 2x4's around the windows.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

I built mine using 3/4" galvanized iron pipe running horizontally (6' wide windows) and 2" wide channel verticals at both ends. I drilled the channels so the pipes fit into the channel and can rotate to make it harder for an intruder to cut. I bolted the channels into the wood trimmers (jack studs to non-west coasters) with one-way head screws.

 

[kbs2244]

The best I have seem were chain link fence panels with Tapcons into the inside brick.

 

[23ford]

rebar weled together with 4 inch holeevery so offen

 

[ford33]

There are fire codes and building codes related to metal bars across windows and exits. You mentioned this was a warehouse so you likely have at least two other exits out of every room where a window is blocked.

I get the need to protect property but consider what effect the bars will have on personal safety. Having a release for the bars that does not require tools would be a good idea if no other exit is available in that room.

For reference - US Fire Admin report on burglar bars in residences: This applies to residences and may not be applicable to warehouses.

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-138.pdf

 

[RVDan]

Mine are connected to 440, light em up

How do you do that?

You're going to hook a single hot line to it, and expect that somebody touching it will be grounded and not insulated and therefore get electrocuted?

 

[James-W]

How do you do that?

You're going to hook a single hot line to it, and expect that somebody touching it will be grounded and not insulated and therefore get electrocuted?

He was probably joking because I really don't think you can legally booby trap your property.

 

[S/RConcepts]

He was probably joking because I really don't think you can legally booby trap your property.

Meh, I just hired Macaulay Culkin to take care of my place... so far, so good

 

[RVDan]

He was probably joking because I really don't think you can legally booby trap your property.

So just like all those guys who tell the story of hooking a spark plug wire to the seat? I ask where they got a spark plug wire that long and they give me a blank stare.

I'm not an expert on 440 but I'm pretty sure it's three phase meaning you don't actually get one wire with 440 volts. You get three in the 110-120 range. Trying to hook all three to a grid of steel window bars would crate a large toaster if it didn't kick the circuit breakers off. To give someone an electric shock you would need them to make contact between two of the wires or one of the wires and ground or neutral.

 

[Spareparts]

Use a electric fence charger

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Thanks for the input. If you think of anything else, please speak up.

The bottom of the windows are 10' from the floor and are glass block. So they are not classified as an exit. The problem is their height when you stand in a pick up on the dock. They are now at an easy working level.

As for folks seeing the bars, I was thinking of putting them on the inside.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[slip knot]

I've always just used rebar. if the thieves plan enough to bring tools to defeat the burglar bars then they will bring tools to defeat anything else in place.

I know of a shop that had the siding removed to steal the compressor. yeah they had bars on the windows and alarms on the doors.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

I've always just used rebar. if the thieves plan enough to bring tools to defeat the burglar bars then they will bring tools to defeat anything else in place.

I know of a shop that had the siding removed to steal the compressor. yeah they had bars on the windows and alarms on the doors.

I take it it must have been an expensive screw type compressor?

 

[Capt Chrysler]

A friend of mine had the siding removed to gain access. The problem.was they picked a spot where he lined the inside with plywood. That stopped them.

For me, the walls are 8" thick poured concrete. With a concrete roof.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[Farmall450]

A friend of mine had the siding removed to gain access. The problem.was they picked a spot where he lined the inside with plywood. That stopped them.

For me, the walls are 8" thick poured concrete. With a concrete roof.

Capt. Chrysler

Sounds like a nice setup. Unfortunately roll up doors can be opened in a minute.

 

[matt_i]

I would do something like put white xerox paper on the windows or a translucent film to block the prison compound look.

Most windows are too small to leave thru anyway unless its a double-hung, I prefer the double man-doors for fast exit.

Can make them with rebar or cold rolled round stock + welder, just need a bending tool which could be a 2" receiver hitch or something nicer.

A coworker made some with wood 2x frames top and bottom which held a set of vertical pipes. The pipes were captured but would spin in their round retention pockets to defeat attempts at cutting thru them with recip or rotary tools.

 

[DenisG]

So just like all those guys who tell the story of hooking a spark plug wire to the seat? I ask where they got a spark plug wire that long and they give me a blank stare.

Google "ignition wire spool". You can buy individual spark plug wire boots and crimps and make your own. I've done it fixing small engines where finding parts was difficult. (I haven't used it for making booby traps. Likely illegal.)

 

[reader2580]

Thanks for the input. If you think of anything else, please speak up.

The bottom of the windows are 10' from the floor and are glass block. So they are not classified as an exit. The problem is their height when you stand in a pick up on the dock. They are now at an easy working level.

What are the chances someone is going to break in through glass block that is 10 feet high? They would need a tall ladder and a big hammer to break out the glass block. Then there is the issue of the 10 foot drop to the floor on the inside although that is easy to do.

If the area has regular traffic after hours someone might question why a ladder is next to a broken window.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

What are the chances someone is going to break in through glass block that is 10 feet high? They would need a tall ladder and a big hammer to break out the glass block. Then there is the issue of the 10 foot drop to the floor on the inside although that is easy to do.

If the area has regular traffic after hours someone might question why a ladder is next to a broken window.

Why you ask! Because it has already happened before. Not a high traffic area. Park the pick up on the dock. Now the windows are easy access. When we removed the glass blocks from another building, the shop truck worked better than the man bucket.


Just don't want it to be me.


Capt. Chrysler

 

[Brian_WK]

Drill 2 holes in each block top and bottom and pump them full of clear silicone.

Brian

 

[yeldogt]

Common on city properties -- Iron bars/frame that fit inside with a hinge and lock. Have to have a key on a long chain nearby ..... the idea is to stop someone from gaining quick access.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Do you like having the windows for light ? If you don't care about the natural light, You could cover them on the outside, tap con 2x4s top/bottom and add some 1.5" rigid foam insulation....then cover with some ribbed metal siding. Presto, what windows ?


Other wise, probably another recommendation for steel tubing/angle and rebar for the bars.

 

[toolmiser]

How about putting some film on the glass to make it more difficult to get thru after it is broken?

 

[Lelandwelds]

He was probably joking because I really don't think you can legally booby trap your property.

Of course he was joking! (Everybody knows you use 12 ga and tripwires.)

 

[Lelandwelds]

Common on city properties -- Iron bars/frame that fit inside with a hinge and lock. Have to have a key on a long chain nearby ..... the idea is to stop someone from gaining quick access.

Polygal fixed on the outside is surprisingly tough in larger sizes. Plastic bird spikes on exterior handholds makes for some head scratching.

Something to reduce the effective window size or make it harder to complete an effective hammer swing might help. ( Netting, awning, fiberglass rebar. )

 

[isb cornbinder]

I put homemade bars on one window that faces the lane. The shop has a monitored alarm system and CCTV, recorded. Before I put up the bars, I had someone break the sliding window latch on the lane window. He claimed the alarm startled him causing him to fall onto a piece of irregularly shaped heavy machinery, just under the window, where he suffered some serious damage to himself. The Police showed up and then the ambulance. The B&E dummy threatened civil action. He was arrested and charged for his uninvited attendance. I have never heard anything from him in more than two decades.

 

[stockstradr]

Very late reply but some may find it interesting....

I'm a mech engineer who who recently did cut tests on various "security window" bar materials to evaluate them for my home windows.

It starts with realizing criminals have a portable reciprocating saw because that's how they also stole the catalytic converter off my car, and your car, in 2 min flat.

I think the "security bar" window guards can be a useful forced entry deterrent for windows that are PUBLICALLY VISIBLE enough where criminal will worry someone will spot them cutting through the "security" window with Sawzall and call police.

So are the various commercially available "security bar window guards" helpful for stopping entry into a window that is OUT OF PUBLIC VIEW (backyard, etc) where criminal can use Sawzall without notice? (Those are the unobserved windows that criminals do naturally choose to break into a home.)

RESULT: my window security bar cut tests with a Sawzall (w/standard metal cutting blade) astounded even me and I'm a practicing mech engr. A new blade was used for each material. This is what "window security bar" manufacturers do NOT want you to know:

1) My portable Sawzall cut the standard 16 and 18 gauge hollow steel bars in 3-4 seconds each and didn't dull the blade. 10th bar cut just as fast ! Scary. Basically all commercially available "security bar window guards" are of similar hollow-tube construction

What about solid square steel bar?

2) On 1/2 inch SOLID SQUARE BAR (which majority of security bar manufacturers do not even offer) those bars Sawzall'd through in 6-7 seconds (and did NOT appreciably dull the blade) for ALL these steel types:
a) A36 hot-rolled which is a typical mild-carbon-steel
b) Home Depot "Aalto" Solid Wrought Iron Baluster. Typical material for making decorative iron railings and security windows.
c) McMaster high-strength 1045 carbon steel (Rockwell B90). A higher-strength but still medium-carbon steel.

So all above were worthless for stopping Sawzall-wielding thieves.

Here is what WORKED as a real deterrent for Sawzall-equipped criminals:
1/2" SOLID SQUARE bar in 4140 HARDENED alloy steel (Rockwell C25): first bar cut in 10 to 15 seconds but it dulled the blade (!) so next bar cut took 20 to 30 seconds. Blades became worthless fast. Bars of that material would really frustrate the Sawzall-equipped criminal. (I was using the very best Lenox thick metal cutting reciprocating saw blades.)

You ask, what is downside of making security windows using such hardened steel bars? That stuff is like $26/ft taking McMaster-Carr as a cost reference. Cost you roughly $1500 to $2000 per typical home window (24" x 50") to have a wrought iron railing / security window shop custom weld that up for you (which is what I did). But if you weld it up yourself maybe cost you $800 / window or less

You may wonder, did home security system work as a more practical (and lower-cost) alternative to the window security bars? In my SF South Bay area I found nextdoor and Ring alarm threads where 40-50 different homeowners replied from a small local area who all had security systems (but without metal security bars over windows) had their homes broken into because thieves hopped the fence to enter backyard where they entered (unobserved) breaking glass of backyard windows (and sliding patio doors) that even had window sensor security alarms (which did NOT get triggered). So the few security systems that offered any deterrence were those with motion sensors on every backyard window. Kinda scary and made me realize the real deterrent for backyard windows is heavy-duty steel security bars over windows AND changing over to very secure sliding patio doors

 

[Countyroadtrailers]

Not a huge proponent of bars on egress windows but sounds like these are not actual windows. If you wanna make them sawzall and grinder proof just use steel 1 in id pipe with a piece of loose rebar inside before capping both ends with angle that bolts to the wall. Throw a 14 gauge wire through the inside of the pipe for an alarm trip sensor loop and you will be alerted 25 mins before they get through two bars.

 

[Lassen Forge]

We had break ins on our property for years when we didn't live there... we had bars on all the windows but one, and guess where they broke in? Now they're all barred, and even though its a stone and tile tower, we still have escape plans...

And yes, I've thought about booby traps, everything from tripwires to car coils to electric fences...

But I also think of something I remember from first year paralegal school... Ed and Bertha Briney's old abandoned farmhouse, Marv Katko's breaking in, looking for canning jars... and a shotgun. No, not worth the hell....

 

[Firebrick43]

Just a thought here, and not saying you shouldn't do it, but if you put bars over a window doesn't that automatically tell potential thieves there is something valuable in this building?

Seemed like every house in metro LA had bars on the doors and window, and many looked as if there wasnt' anything to steal.

 

[Mike65]

How about putting some film on the glass to make it more difficult to get thru after it is broken?

That was exactly what I was thinking. Privacy film on the inside of the glass to make it hard to see what is inside.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7GRQQ8B/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[manwithtools]

Move!