To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Bars on a window for security?

MBfreak

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
2,301
Location
Linkoping , Sweden
I worked at a power station where we had lots of break ins.
We put in 35 mm steel pipe grids , 150 mm apart and welded across with 20 mm stainless steel rod inside, that were free to spin.
That stopped the break ins, impossible to saw thru.

Ola
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

James-W

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
12,432
Location
Southeastern Wisconsin
Seemed like every house in metro LA had bars on the doors and window, and many looked as if there wasn't anything to steal.
I get what you are saying, but I think this is sort of an apples and oranges thing. What I mean is, around here it is a low crime area and nobody has bars on their windows and/or doors. If I put bars on my garage window and on the door, would that not tend to signal I am trying to protect something of value inside?
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,183
Location
West central Indiana
To make the bars really cut proof, do what they do with safes. Fill them with loose ball bearing balls. The balls cant be cut as they are very hard and they cause drills and saws to bind as soon as they make it to the balls. Drill bit will bind and break. I imagine that saw blades would just bind.
 

mikedodge

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
2,839
I agree that having a random building with bars on the windows does hint there might be something in there worth stealing but if break ins are already a problem it's a mute point. Unless the path of egress is through one of the windows that also isn't much of a concern. If it's a big building it should have enough doors out anyway.

Hardened bars or a bar that spins over the main ones sounds like a good way of trying to prevent being cut through.
 

nadogail

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
32,041
Location
Coronado, CA
Your best protection is a neighbor who knows what is not supposed to be happening and is willing to call you and the authorities and you when they see something wrong.
 

no704

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2016
Messages
5,229
used to work for a lock manufacturer. Good deadbolts have a ceramic core to defeat sawing.
 

Bill T

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
140
Location
Easley,S.C.
You can't keep out a pro thief, typically you would design yor protection to keep out/frustrate a meth head. Talk to your insurance agent. I have a largish home shop (2400 sq. ft.). To insure agaist theft and fire, nature, etc. , I had to have a rider written on my homeowners policy. I get a break in the rate if the property is alarmed. In my case, the price break on the policy paid for the alarm system.
Any rollup door should be secured so that the door must be released from inside. Use steel entrance doors with reinforced jambs. If you have windows, there many different ways to install bars on interior.
Again, you can not keep out a pro thief, just discourage the meth head.
 

4 FN 27

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
4,635
Location
Minnesnowta
3/4 Square Tube x .120 Wall. Insert a 3/8 Dia Rod in each Tube so it rotates freely. That will slow down a Sawzall.

Rust may be an issue causing the inner Rod to stop rotating. I would use Stainless.
 

Monza Harry

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
1,433
Location
Windsor ON
A neighbour of mine installed shutters inside his windows of his garage, a single piece of plywood either 5/8" or 3/4" I don't remember which. He hinged them at the top and had a dead bolt that locked the window and secured it in the up position for light (etc.) when he was in there. You could add other locking features as well. The out facing side was painted a dark colour so when looking in you or a potential theif couldn't see squat. Want to screw with them? Paint a large angry man's face for them to see. o_O Harry
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,769
So just like all those guys who tell the story of hooking a spark plug wire to the seat? I ask where they got a spark plug wire that long and they give me a blank stare.

I'm not an expert on 440 but I'm pretty sure it's three phase meaning you don't actually get one wire with 440 volts. You get three in the 110-120 range. Trying to hook all three to a grid of steel window bars would crate a large toaster if it didn't kick the circuit breakers off. To give someone an electric shock you would need them to make contact between two of the wires or one of the wires and ground or neutral.
440 volts has gone the way of the Dodo bird, while there are some legacy flavors of 480 volts (ungrounded, grounded B phase, etc) most common is 480/277 volts, each phase to neutral is 277V, any two phases are 480V, you need two legs for 480V. BTW electrifying security bars/screens would invite all kinds of legal trouble for setting a booby trap, although I wonder how a fence charger would do.
 

imagineer

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
1,018
Location
Ohio
In the late '70's, my cousin had a body shop in a sketchy part of Quincy, MA. For window bars, he used regular 3/4" black pipe, but slipped a length of solid 1/2" stainless rod, greased, in side each so if the thieves tried sawing the bars, the stainless rod inside would just spin.
 

dogdog

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Messages
12,711
Hello Folks,

I have a warehouse building with "stuff" in it. Have any of you ever added bars to the inside of your windows?

This was recommended by the insurance company. But, they could / would not recommend one brand or a custom manufacturer.

Matter of fact, I couldn't even get a recommended bar spec from them.


Thanks

Capt. Chrysler
Here there are business that make it out of 1/1 solid squares and angle steel. I have mine installed on all ground level windows for almost 30 years now. Few rust but still strong. Usually only ghetto neightborhood have these. Have this. The bars are no more than 3” apart in case they get their head stuck. Keep in mind, these day and age with cordless angle grinders, they are defeated in minutes.

1/2 square or 3/4 or 1” are cheaper at the steel supplier sold by 25’. You can get punched channels as well same as building fence.
 

Metal-Marc

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
7,248
Location
Foothills of the Adirondacks
A neighbour of mine installed shutters inside his windows of his garage, a single piece of plywood either 5/8" or 3/4" I don't remember which. He hinged them at the top and had a dead bolt that locked the window and secured it in the up position for light (etc.) when he was in there. You could add other locking features as well. The out facing side was painted a dark colour so when looking in you or a potential theif couldn't see squat. Want to screw with them? Paint a large angry man's face for them to see. o_O Harry
I'm planning something similar for my shop.
 

pcmeiners

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
7,952
Location
In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
Stainless steel fabricated window guards, unlockable from inside, many municipalities do not legally allow unlockable units in case a fire personal get trapped inside. Defeats a Sawzall but not a diamond bladed battery 4" grinder, possibly eating a few blades before entry.

A Federal PA 1000 police/ambulance amplifier/siren setup, one speaker inside one outside. In a closed room, hearing damage occurs. Can be heard a mile away. Check into legality of inside use. Have 2 units off Ebay.

Neon sign transformer hooked up to interior window grates. Trust me, capable of sending someone across a room, better than Red Bull. Forget a farm fence charger, kids stuff. Check into legality.
 
Last edited:

ybnormal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
5,002
We had break ins on our property for years when we didn't live there... we had bars on all the windows but one, and guess where they broke in? Now they're all barred, and even though its a stone and tile tower, we still have escape plans...

And yes, I've thought about booby traps, everything from tripwires to car coils to electric fences...

But I also think of something I remember from first year paralegal school... Ed and Bertha Briney's old abandoned farmhouse, Marv Katko's breaking in, looking for canning jars... and a shotgun. No, not worth the hell....
as Ed Briney said, aim a few feet higher.....
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,769
Stainless steel fabricated window guards, unlockable from inside, many municipalities do not legally allow unlockable units in case a fire personal get trapped inside. Defeats a Sawzall but not a diamond bladed battery 4" grinder, possibly eating a few blades before entry.

A Federal PA 1000 police/ambulance amplifier/siren setup, one speaker inside one outside. In a closed room, hearing damage occurs. Can be heard a mile away. Check into legality of inside use. Have 2 units off Ebay.

Neon sign transformer hooked up to interior window grates. Trust me, capable of sending someone across a room, better than Red Bull. Forget a farm fence charger, kids stuff. Check into legality.
The neon ****** might be considered a booby trap, a fence charger will pack a wallop but won't kill them, while I would not shed a tear if thieves were taken out & shot, it is not going to happen and that is a good thing.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,183
Location
West central Indiana
Stainless steel fabricated window guards, unlockable from inside, many municipalities do not legally allow unlockable units in case a fire personal get trapped inside. Defeats a Sawzall but not a diamond bladed battery 4" grinder, possibly eating a few blades before entry.

A Federal PA 1000 police/ambulance amplifier/siren setup, one speaker inside one outside. In a closed room, hearing damage occurs. Can be heard a mile away. Check into legality of inside use. Have 2 units off Ebay.

Neon sign transformer hooked up to interior window grates. Trust me, capable of sending someone across a room, better than Red Bull. Forget a farm fence charger, kids stuff. Check into legality.
You haven’t tried a New Zealand charger huh? I first had a 6joule Stayfix and it flattened my uncle, wife, and dog. It also made a 1000 lbs Hereford heifer go cross eyed , down to her knees and bellow like she was dying.

They are low impedance and put about over 7000v per strike. I don’t recommend the stayfix/speedrite chargers however as the boards frequently go out and cost several hundred for repairs.

I know have a cyclops 5 joule charger that I recommend as the boards are much more robust and much better lighting suppression. Last time I got hit by it I was paying attention to the neighbors kids screaming. I saw the spark in broad daylight jump the 1/2” to the back of my thumb. It felt my thumb was setting on an anvil and smacked as hard as you could with a 2lbs hammer. I didn’t want to look at it as I thought it was split open. It felt terrible for several hours and slightly burnt for two days even though there was no visible damage.

I used to check for working fence by grabbing a hold of it. As a kid I would also grab a wire and my sister wrist pretty often just to piss her off.

The chargers at Tough **** Charley’s (TSC) are that pathetic
 

pcmeiners

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
7,952
Location
In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
"You haven’t tried a New Zealand charger huh?"

That's Child's play !

You really have to do a 34,000 vdc @ 25 milliamps neon transformer, (formerly from a sign at Times Square, roughly 25 lbs ).
First your body forms an arch, than you fly a few feet backwards, about a foot off the ground, slam the nearest wall, slide down, remain paralyzed for almost 1/2 hour...... all the while being the most relaxed you have ever been, even more than after *** or waking up after Propofol.:thumbup:


"As a kid I would also grab a wire and my sister wrist pretty often just to piss her off."

Don't you just miss those good times.
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,183
Location
West central Indiana
"You haven’t tried a New Zealand charger huh?"

That's Child's play !

You really have to do a 34,000 vdc @ 25 milliamps neon transformer, (formerly from a sign at Times Square, roughly 25 lbs ).
First your body forms an arch than you fly a few feet backwards, about a foot off the ground, slam the nearest wall, slide down, remain paralyzed for almost 1/2 hour...... all the while being the most relaxed you have ever been, even more than after *** or waking up after Propofol.:thumbup:


"As a kid I would also grab a wire and my sister wrist pretty often just to piss her off."

Don't you just miss those good times.
been watching to many movies
 

driftpin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2016
Messages
11,304
Location
Miami-Dade/Broward Co. Florida
I've posted before on GJ about this incident. It happened in 1986, a burglar killed by electrocution, Miami FL.


MIAMI -- A grand jury refused Tuesday to indict Prentice Rasheed, a Liberty City merchant who grew so weary of repeated burglaries that he set a booby trap that electrocuted a habitual criminal who broke into his store.

The Dade County grand jury, after 8 hours of deliberation, returned a 'no true bill' in Rasheed's case, but issued a statement saying citizens should not interpret the action as a signal that it is acceptable to use deadly force to protect property.

Here are some bars I made, I modified the initial design after I showed the installation to a wiry friend, and he said, "I can get past that!" and he contorted himself, and did. I added cross-bars.

The 'before' design, he crawled through.
window bars.10.jpg

Making the changes.
window bars.11.jpg


window bars.12.jpg

The 'after' product.
window bars.13.jpg
 

ecotec

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
5,469
We had break ins on our property for years when we didn't live there... we had bars on all the windows but one, and guess where they broke in? Now they're all barred, and even though its a stone and tile tower, we still have escape plans...

And yes, I've thought about booby traps, everything from tripwires to car coils to electric fences...

But I also think of something I remember from first year paralegal school... Ed and Bertha Briney's old abandoned farmhouse, Marv Katko's breaking in, looking for canning jars... and a shotgun. No, not worth the hell....
When I was in Italy, it seemed like it was legal to boobytrap your house.

People put nails and pieces of glass on top of all the fences and worse…

Some people even sharpened the nails cemented into the top of the fences.

I asked one guy what happens when the thief throws a mattress over the nails and glass… he told me that nothing will really stop a determined thief.

The multicolored glass that they used to boobytrap the top of the fences was beautiful in a way. I thought that it was decoration at first.
 

zendriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
30,135
Location
Indiana
Thanks for the input. If you think of anything else, please speak up.

The bottom of the windows are 10' from the floor and are glass block. So they are not classified as an exit. The problem is their height when you stand in a pick up on the dock. They are now at an easy working level.

As for folks seeing the bars, I was thinking of putting them on the inside.

Capt. Chrysler
I was going to suggest using glass blocks (at any level), since I see them replacing replacing industrial windows, in bad and good neighborhoods, everywhere.

They are pretty secure, since they don't just just smash out like regular glass.

Not just me.


If you (and your ins company) are really worried you could just run a couple of bars along the seams where the block connect to each other. Make more secure with not effect on aesthetics
 

Lassen Forge

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
15,389
Location
The romantic hills of central Umbria, Italy,
When I was in Italy, it seemed like it was legal to boobytrap your house.

People put nails and pieces of glass on top of all the fences and worse…

Some people even sharpened the nails cemented into the top of the fences.

I asked one guy what happens when the thief throws a mattress over the nails and glass… he told me that nothing will really stop a determined thief.

The multicolored glass that they used to boobytrap the top of the fences was beautiful in a way. I thought that it was decoration at first.

We had that in almost every big city we lived in in the states... from glass shards, nails, and caltrops embedded in wall tops to concertina wire to those pretty wrought iron fences with the sharpened spikes on top... I haven't seen that over here, however we also don't live in the "big city" either...
 

Jsf721

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
4,129
Location
LI, NY
There are fire codes and building codes related to metal bars across windows and exits. You mentioned this was a warehouse so you likely have at least two other exits out of every room where a window is blocked.

I get the need to protect property but consider what effect the bars will have on personal safety. Having a release for the bars that does not require tools would be a good idea if no other exit is available in that room.

For reference - US Fire Admin report on burglar bars in residences: This applies to residences and may not be applicable to warehouses.

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-138.pdf
In our warehouse the bars are hinged at the bottom and a pull rod across the top would release it. After a Reno it was removed as not to updated code. We bricked in many of the windows. Problem solved. Cannot bar them can brick them. We have enough other exits. Said barred windows can draw and trap.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,246
Location
SE MI
I worked at a power station where we had lots of break ins.
We put in 35 mm steel pipe grids , 150 mm apart and welded across with 20 mm stainless steel rod inside, that were free to spin.
This is KEY ELEMENT.

In general, it thrives think you have something valuable and they have plenty of undisturbed time, they will get in. Some liquor store were broken into by thieves with sledge hammers who simply broke a hole through CMU exterior walls.
 

ybnormal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
5,002
We had that in almost every big city we lived in in the states... from glass shards, nails, and caltrops embedded in wall tops to concertina wire to those pretty wrought iron fences with the sharpened spikes on top... I haven't seen that over here, however we also don't live in the "big city" either...
I remember going to visit the wife's relatives in Monterey Mexico in the early - mid 90s. Many of the properties while driving around I saw had broken glass from Coke bottle embedded in mortar on the tops of walls. Went down there again about 3 weeks ago. This time I mostly saw the same type of stamped steel caltrops on walls.
1687141917198.png
 

rockettauto

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2023
Messages
745
As long as we're getting creative with power.... Would be interesting to see a bar within a bar where one side is ground, the other hot hooked to a stick welder. Pretty sure that would beat a sawzall blade. Even more interesting, fill the space between with unidirectional kevlar fiber, might actually pull out and bind a grinder blade.

I mean it's all a bit much but just as a brainstorming exercise on tamper resistance....
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,183
Location
West central Indiana
I remember going to visit the wife's relatives in Monterey Mexico in the early - mid 90s. Many of the properties while driving around I saw had broken glass from Coke bottle embedded in mortar on the tops of walls. Went down there again about 3 weeks ago. This time I mostly saw the same type of stamped steel caltrops on walls.
1687141917198.png
Its to keep birds from roosting. Its here in the states as well in places.

 

ybnormal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
5,002
Its to keep birds from roosting. Its here in the states as well in places.

uhhhhh, no. they are used strictly on the walltops along the edges so they can't easily climb up. see how the rest of the walls back from the perimeter don't have them? neither does the flat roof area of the patio entrance.

the bird spikes are usually much more densely clustered and they are shaped like needles not caltrops to prevent the birds from nesting.

1687146062294.png
 

Firebrick43

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
14,183
Location
West central Indiana
uhhhhh, no. they are used strictly on the walltops along the edges so they can't easily climb up. see how the rest of the walls back from the perimeter don't have them? neither does the flat roof area of the patio entrance.

the bird spikes are usually much more densely clustered and they are shaped like needles not caltrops to prevent the birds from nesting.

1687146062294.png
Ok, there is several different styles.

closeupspikes.jpg

Also sold as bird spikes. Yes they are along the edge, so birds don't set on the edge and poo on your head. Pretty hard to cover a whole roof in them. The edges further up/back are not where they will poo on anyones head.

So what if they are where people will climb. They are for birds right, wink wink.
 

pcmeiners

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
7,952
Location
In the only town in Pennsylvania, Bloomsburg.
"So what if they are where people will climb. They are for birds right, wink wink."

They need sharpening, everly last tine. those "birds" can be a real pain in the ***.

"The edges further up/back are not where they will poo on anyone's head."

insurance again those extra large "birds"
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom