Basement Floor Drain

[krux]

Hey Everyone,

Ever since owning my home, I have always struggled from having the floor drain not back up. I have brought in two plumbers in which both have said the pipe is not clogged and recommend me to put a rub plug in the sink with small holes in it (which I did and helps).

Here is what I have done so far. Recommendations?

1) Rubber plug in the sink with small holes in it
2) High efficiency washer - Less water, equals less chance
3) Drano or an enzyme chemical per month to ensure pipes are clean.

What I have noticed:
-If there is a loud sucking/air noise on other side of tub, water appears to pulled in faster and the drain backs up.
-If no air noise happens on other side of tub, it drains perfectly fine with no backup.

Picture:
-2" drain line
-1.5" main roof vent


Thank you!

 

[rburke65]

Ar3 you on a septic system or do you have sewer service where you live?

 

[krux]

Sewer system. I want to say it connects to a 4" main line going out of the house.

 

[matt_i]

If it were me I'd take off the grate and put an expansion plug in the floor drain.

What I think is happening is that when water is flowing fast like a toilet flush, even though air is escaping ahead of it, there's some kind of restriction (not blocked but bottlenecked) and the path of least resistance is out thru the floor drain. When the flow is lower it can all fit thru the bottleneck.

If you ever need the floor drain you can always open it up by removing the expansion plug.

I lived in a really old 120 year old house and it had almost the same issue.

 

[krux]

If it were me I'd take off the grate and put an expansion plug in the floor drain.

What I think is happening is that when water is flowing fast like a toilet flush, even though air is escaping ahead of it, there's some kind of restriction (not blocked but bottlenecked) and the path of least resistance is out thru the floor drain. When the flow is lower it can all fit thru the bottleneck.

If you ever need the floor drain you can always open it up by removing the expansion plug.

I lived in a really old 120 year old house and it had almost the same issue.

I do have one of these below in the drain itself I should have mentioned. It also doesn't work at all either.

Do you have to worry about pressure in your pipes by blocking it?

 

[Lunker]

Plug the drain with concrete and install an ejector pit and make a new floor drain go to that

 

[59 wagon man]

does it mainly happen when running the washing machine? either way the floor drain maybe connected to close to the base of the stack. multiple story buildings need a suds zone. its been 30 yrs since i've done construction but I think it was something like 8x the diameter of the pipe had to be a straight run from the base of the stack or elbow before making a connection

 

[krux]

does it mainly happen when running the washing machine? either way the floor drain maybe connected to close to the base of the stack. multiple story buildings need a suds zone. its been 30 yrs since i've done construction but I think it was something like 8x the diameter of the pipe had to be a straight run from the base of the stack or elbow before making a connection

It'll happen if there is a lot of water drained at once. For example either the washer machine or draining a kitchen sink at the same time. I'm guessing its maybe 2 feet off the drain line.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[LS6 Tommy]

A sucking sound on a drain sounds like a restricted waste vent.

Does it only happen when you use the washing machine? Your washing machine drain isn't supposed to drain into the utility tub. The tub drain isn't big enough for the washing machine. The washing machine standpipe has to be 2" by code.

Tommy

 

[BigGarage]

Hey Everyone,

Ever since owning my home, I have always struggled from having the floor drain not back up. I have brought in two plumbers in which both have said the pipe is not clogged and recommend me to put a rub plug in the sink with small holes in it (which I did and helps).

What I have noticed:
-If there is a loud sucking/air noise on other side of tub, water appears to pulled in faster and the drain backs up.
-If no air noise happens on other side of tub, it drains perfectly fine with no backup.


Thank you!

If you have a dual-basin tub and a lot of water is going down the drain on one side of it it is going to create a sucking sound on the other side. The two drains are connected underneath and the sucking sound is normal. The sound is created by the large amount of water going down the other drain.

You said you had an expansion plug "I do have one of these below in the drain itself I should have mentioned. It also doesn't work at all either."

Do you mean to say that you have an expansion plug in the floor drain and water still leaks past it? What do you mean "below in the drain itself"? Do you have an expansion plug in the actual floor drain or not?

I think your floor drain is simply too close to your tub drain. I do not think you have a problem other than that. When too much water is coming down into drain it has to go somewhere.

Dennis

 

[krux]

A sucking sound on a drain sounds like a restricted waste vent.

Does it only happen when you use the washing machine? Your washing machine drain isn't supposed to drain into the utility tub. The tub drain isn't big enough for the washing machine. The washing machine standpipe has to be 2" by code.

Tommy

Any large amounts of water at one time will have the drain backup. It could be either a sink or the washer machine.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[krux]

If you have a dual-basin tub and a lot of water is going down the drain on one side of it it is going to create a sucking sound on the other side. The two drains are connected underneath and the sucking sound is normal. The sound is created by the large amount of water going down the other drain.



You said you had an expansion plug "I do have one of these below in the drain itself I should have mentioned. It also doesn't work at all either."



Do you mean to say that you have an expansion plug in the floor drain and water still leaks past it? What do you mean "below in the drain itself"? Do you have an expansion plug in the actual floor drain or not?



I think your floor drain is simply too close to your tub drain. I do not think you have a problem other than that. When too much water is coming down into drain it has to go somewhere.



Dennis

Sorry I should have clarified.

In the floor drain, I have a one way expansion plug like the pic above. It leaks past this due to several reasons. One being the cheap plug does not hold water back. Two is the hole for the floor drain is slightly oblong which leaks around this. Do you think expansion plug would take away the gap enough.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[spudley]

Your washing machine drain isn't supposed to drain into the utility tub.
Tommy

But since the floor drain is backing up with a restricted flow thru the laundry tub, I guessing it would back up even worse if the washer emptied in a free flow 2" standpipe.
The shared vent is 1.5" and the shared laundry drain 2". Might be too small a vent. (or plugged)
Surprised the plumbers couldn't figure it out...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Any large amounts of water at one time will have the drain backup. It could be either a sink or the washer machine.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

But since the floor drain is backing up with a restricted flow thru the laundry tub, I guessing it would back up even worse if the washer emptied in a free flow 2" standpipe.
The shared vent is 1.5" and the shared laundry drain 2". Might be too small a vent. (or plugged)
Surprised the plumbers couldn't figure it out...

Sorry guys. The way I wrote that was misleading. I should have said the washing machine drain/tub drain thing was just a side note. I also didn't know the tub drain was 2". They're normally 1-1/4"-1-1/2".



Tommy

 

[59 wagon man]

laundry drains are 2" down here now. the older homes maybe 1=1/2" but they struggle to keep up with some of the new machines. I think the floor drain is just too close combined with the old pipe probably all contribute to the problem. the expansion plug may need to be removed and the area where it seals on the cast iron pipe cleaned up with a wire wheel for a better seal

 

[stokefire7]

When’s the last time the drain was cleaned ?

 

[flat350]

If you just want to plug it Cherne/Oatey make blow up test balls for plumbing in different sizes

https://www.oatey.com/2374937/Product/Single-Size-Test-Ball-Plugs

should take care of the out of round pipe.

 

[Jackfre]

The drain lines in the floor are piped incorrectly. Water is just as lazy as electricity and will short out just as quickly, given the opportunity. The floor drain is tied into the main drain line to closely to the WM/sink drain. Two plumbers have said the line is not blocked. Have they run a camera down the line to show its condition? The blow up test balls 350 suggested are "test" balls intended for that purpose. They will not hold air long term. I wouldn't pour it closed, but would suggest that you look at an assortment of plugs to find one that will conform to the shape and stay in place.

 

[spudley]

The drain lines in the floor are piped incorrectly. Water is just as lazy as electricity and will short out just as quickly, given the opportunity. The floor drain is tied into the main drain line to closely to the WM/sink drain. Two plumbers have said the line is not blocked. Have they run a camera down the line to show its condition? The blow up test balls 350 suggested are "test" balls intended for that purpose. They will not hold air long term. I wouldn't pour it closed, but would suggest that you look at an assortment of plugs to find one that will conform to the shape and stay in place.

So a 2'' drain line flowing into a 3" or more likely 4'' main drain that supposedly isn't blocked will back up the floor drain?
I'm no plumber but that seems illogical Mr Spock, unless the main drain line is being occupied with other water draining elsewhere in the system.
My money is still on a blocked drain or inadequate vent.

 

[cdestuck]

Install one of these. Let’s water go down but not back up.

 

[Jackfre]

So a 2'' drain line flowing into a 3" or more likely 4'' main drain that supposedly isn't blocked will back up the floor drain?
I'm no plumber but that seems illogical Mr Spock, unless the main drain line is being occupied with other water draining elsewhere in the system.
My money is still on a blocked drain or inadequate vent.

You may be correct. The original piping with the floor drain right under the sink and most likely tied right into the main with a wye or san tee is to close to that sink drain/stack. The OP has said two plumbers have said the main is not plugged, but we don't know its actual condition. It may flow all right but in certain circumstances the drain arm of the floor drain is the point of least resistance and that is where the water goes. The correct way to have piped this is to run the floor drain line parallel to the main and tie it in way downstream so there is resistance to the occasional pressure differential. At the bottom of a stack the velocity generally is reduced and you get a lot of turbulence to flow as it negotiates the qtr bend. Combined with a toilet being flushed or a shower, etc and all hell can break loose.

 

[dw1]

We just went through this at my daughters house back in the spring, pretty close to your setup, ended up pulling tree roots out of the sewer pipe. She would wash clothes and sometimes it would come out the floor drain.

 

[krux]

So many good comments on this.

The plumbers did not run a camera but a snake and both times no clogs. They mentioned the pipe to close and recommended a relocation which im sure if good idea if a flood did happen.

I might need to try a stopper or something to plug the hole but still have it as a one way valve. Otherwise, keep living with it I guess? ***** to clean up everytime and its so random when it does it. It could happen at the beginnig or end of a wash cycle.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[krux]

Sorry for bringing this topic back up, but I need feedback.

The drain still backs up from time to time when using the washer machine. Today, it was fine for one load but the second one right afterwards it backed up.

I called a plumber about a month ago and he recommend a back water device that is plastic and you hammer it into the floor drain.

Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Stopping the symptoms doesn't cure the problem. I don't remember if you said you had the mains checked...

Tommy

 

[krux]

Stopping the symptoms doesn't cure the problem. I don't remember if you said you had the mains checked...

Tommy

The main was not checked. According to two plumbers the main is not blocked. This is a branch line going to the main.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

[redmondjp]

The main was not checked. According to two plumbers the main is not blocked. This is a branch line going to the main.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

Get a video of your side sewer all the way out to the main and then post back here with the results. Both the house I grew up in and my dad's house have this same setup and have had the same problem as you.

Tree roots were the issue along with an old multi-section concrete line in one case, and in the other case it is a sunken section of the line before getting to the main.

It's the sudden discharge of that much water that is the clue that the main might have an issue. I would also have the camera guy scope out that 2" line from the basement all the way out to the end while he is there. Clothing fibers from the washing machine can really clog up those lines - my mom's trick was to have the washing machine discharge into one side of the laundry sink, with a nylon stocking over its outlet - that did a fine job of keeping the fuzz out of the drain.

 

[jimindm]

I would have the drain video scoped. Yu will know what the problem is and how far out.

Any chance you are on a shared sewer line with a few neighbors. Usually the actual city sewer is large and can take the flow of a lot of sewage. Private lines not so much. Most start at one property and are just kind of added to.

Get it scoped all the way to the cities line. Any one that has a camera can tell as they run it down the line.

 

[krux]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I'll look at getting it scooped out. I keep a mesh liner on the washer discharge pipe that drains into a tub which has two small holes drilled into a plug in the sink. It seems the pipe get sensitive to fibers and im guessing food that accidently goes down the same pipe.

This is a branch pipe in the house that connects to the main water pipe. Anything past the main water pipe does not back up. Our neighboorhood is on a large sewer system so it should be fine.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk